To think I wasn't being a dick?

[GlummyMcGlummerson]

I split up with exH 2 years ago, we have 2DC aged 4&8 and when they're at ex's they still see their cousins and aunty, my exSIL. ExSIL has only contacted me once since the split - to remind me to get her son (DN) a present (I refused said it was Ex's job now) - never checked to see I was ok after her brother had an affair. Anyway, her DS is 7 and over lockdown I allowed DD (8) to use my phone to face call him and play Minecraft with him at the same time on my iPad.

DN has his own iPad but he uses his parent's Facebook messenger accounts to face call DD.

Now we're back to normality, and school, I let DD have 3 hours in total on a weekend, split however she likes from Friday evening to Sunday. She used most of it on Friday after school, so that's her time used up. But DN has called (which came through to both my phone and iPad) 23 times. I didn't answer either as they've been in another room most of the day. I also had nuermous messenger messages like "DD call me now" and "Why aren't you calling you're upsetting me". I did reply sorry DD won't be having screen time today, but he still kept calling.

Anyway, I texted exSIL on the number I still have for her and said "Hi it's Glummy, can you stop DN from calling my messenger please, DD isn't allowed her iPad today and he's called 23 times today". She replied saying "OK but there's no need to be a dick about it he just misses DD that's all" I don't think what I said was dickish at all. I'm tempted to reply and ask what she means. I haven't yet, but it's really bothered me. There's no backstory we got on fine when I was married to her brother but she firmly nailed her colours to the mast when we split (except when she wanted her son to get a birthday present, apparently that was still my job and if left to ex he wouldn't have got one )

Maybe DD and her cousin had had a bit of an argument last time they were in communication and so when she didn’t reply he was imagining it was because she was angry with him.
I think I’d have let her have 10 mins just to speak to her cousin as he was upset.
I’d be interested to know if you Wouid have relented if it was one of her friends calling? Is it possible you’re being more rigid over this as it’s your ex’s family especially if you’re angry that your SIL was so unsupportive following her DB’s affair X

@RandomMess

This reminds me that SIL fell out with us because I didn't send her Birthday Card even though I didn't have her new address and it has always been DH job as it's his sister...

Basically an excuse to through a strop and drive a wedge between us and PIL!

I’m totally fascinated how posters view it as the dads job because it’s her sister.

While you may have a point so many people split up if we all held this view it would mean the kids wouldn’t bond with their cousins from the dads side of the family.

@Insanelysilver I'm pretty sure 7 and 8yos don't argue when gaming!

It's really not my DD's place to placate a (likely) over emotional child. She's a girl in a world where she will be expected to be nice at all costs and constantly pander and bend, especially for boys and men. I'm trying to do damage limitation now and teach her that regulating other people's emotions (especially if those emotions are built up and built up to excessive heights) are not her responsibility.

@Hunnihun2 do you mean the dad's jobs because it's his sister??

Don’t have social media, job done

@Justbrutallyhonest

Don’t have social media, job done

You wot m8?

@GlummyMcGlumerson Thanks! I honestly wish more women valued themselves to the degree you seem to and to set and enforce clear boundaries the way you do. Given the surprising number of women here who are siding with your exSil and the demanding exN it just points out how much internalized sexism there is in society today. Women need to be taught to value themselves, their time, their time with their children the way you are teaching your children and to be taught to stand up for those values in a clear and direct unapologetic way, the way you did for your daughter's time with your exSil and her demanding child . Glad I was able to voice my support. I wish there were classes for women to learn to be as assertive as you are. More women need to realize it is necessary and good to stand up for yourself instead of giving in and always playing the role of the accommodating female to keep everyone else happy and "hunning it up". Keep up the good work for all of us!

People are seriously referring to ex-aunt, ex-nephew?! I shouldn't keep looking at this thread but it's fascinating to see how people think about families. That just doesn't compute for me and I bet the posters who are giving OP a somewhat harder time about the present thing feel similarly, whereas for others it's so demarcated and the assumptions are completely different. Honestly the whole thread has been quite an eye-opener.

@terrimom I totally agree with you. I wish I could stand up for myself and my child as much as OP. I've a fear of upsetting people and will often give way too much of myself just to please others. I believe its ingrained in women much more so in men. I would have totally written a hun message in fear of causing upset. OP you have inspired me to check if I'm sending a "hun" message in future and to ask myself why.
It's funny when men are direct and to the point its not considered selfish, when women do it its rude and unkind.

While you may have a point so many people split up if we all held this view it would mean the kids wouldn’t bond with their cousins from the dads side of the family.
What? No!

It simply means that men are expected to do the same work as women on family bonding.

Why are you letting men off the hook?

If my husband and I split, it wouldn’t be my responsibility to ensure my kids saw the cousins on his side. If a birthday party happened on my weekend, of course I would take them, but for regular visits? Not my job.

Or do you expect a man to make sure that he kept his kids in contact with the cousins on the female side?

@RosyPickle

People are seriously referring to ex-aunt, ex-nephew?! I shouldn't keep looking at this thread but it's fascinating to see how people think about families. That just doesn't compute for me and I bet the posters who are giving OP a somewhat harder time about the present thing feel similarly, whereas for others it's so demarcated and the assumptions are completely different. Honestly the whole thread has been quite an eye-opener.

but that is what they are?

As in exH, exMiL, exSiL. exN - they are not related after divorce, so what do you think they should be called?

I do totally get what you mean re boys/ men etc and wanting to avoid your daughter growing up to fall into the trap of having to constantly be an emotional prop for men.
I was only thinking if they had had a barny and the boy only being quite little, he might have been desperate to apologise or something.
But if there was no quarrel anyway then fair that doesn’t even apply.

@RosyPickle

People are seriously referring to ex-aunt, ex-nephew?! I shouldn't keep looking at this thread but it's fascinating to see how people think about families. That just doesn't compute for me and I bet the posters who are giving OP a somewhat harder time about the present thing feel similarly, whereas for others it's so demarcated and the assumptions are completely different. Honestly the whole thread has been quite an eye-opener.

My uncles ex wife is my ex aunt. 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

@RosyPickle

People are seriously referring to ex-aunt, ex-nephew?! I shouldn't keep looking at this thread but it's fascinating to see how people think about families. That just doesn't compute for me and I bet the posters who are giving OP a somewhat harder time about the present thing feel similarly, whereas for others it's so demarcated and the assumptions are completely different. Honestly the whole thread has been quite an eye-opener.

Yes the SIL who didn't even check in after my husband bloke our world apart and slept with a teenager, is not someone I still consider family.

@RosyPickle what happens when people get married 4 times - do exwives 1, 2 and 3 still have to consider themselves part of that family, buy presents etc? I suspect you may think that once a new woman comes in the old one goes out the family. Which shows exactly that women are only commodities for as long as they're relevant in relation to a man.

Again, someone please answer - at what point do we expect men to be responsible for basic things like buying presents for their family. Why is the default that a woman does it for them?

People are seriously referring to ex-aunt, ex-nephew?! I shouldn't keep looking at this thread but it's fascinating to see how people think about families

What else is your uncles exwife? When they've been divorced 20 years, say, is she not your ex-aunt? If he's remarried, are they both your aunts?
In reality .neither are your aunt at all.

@GlummyMcGlummerson

Again, someone please answer - at what point do we expect men to be responsible for basic things like buying presents for their family. Why is the default that a woman does it for them?

You wont get an answer from people who insist on enabling the infantising of grown men. They have no logical answer - probably because there is none

*I’m totally fascinated how posters view it as the dads job because it’s her sister.

While you may have a point so many people split up if we all held this view it would mean the kids wouldn’t bond with their cousins from the dads side of the family.*

Do you think the dad should manage gifts to cousins from the mums side in the event of a break up then?

If not who is managing the bond with cousins on the mums side of the family?

While you may have a point so many people split up if we all held this view it would mean the kids wouldn’t bond with their cousins from the dads side of the family.

Only if their Dad doesn’t bother his arse.

Men are allowed to organise to visit family and to help their children bond with their family. And they’re perfectly capable of it, it’s just rarely expected of them

@terrimom and @YoniAndGuy are spot on 👏🏼

Where is this infantilisation of men? What can anyone on this thread do about the OP's ex other than disapprove of his behaviour? OP is divorced from him so any gifts etc would be from her, not her ex, not covering for him, etc.

I understand from reading through this thread that in cases of divorce you do in fact have ex-aunts etc, I would think though if there is a relationship there or any familial feeling or love, you'd continue to be an aunt regardless of divorce, subsequent remarriages, etc. In this case there is no such relationship which is fair enough. I just think the ex and what he does or doesn't do is a bit of a red herring, OP chooses not to engage with DN and doesn't see him as a nephew any longer, and all the stuff about wife work is irrelevant really.

Why posters have to make assumptions about internalised misogyny, commodifying women, infantilising/excusing men, or simply wanting to jump on someone because it's AIBU, I'm not sure. They're certainly not the mind readers they imagine themselves to be though.

I expressed a view which was a) on the subject of the 23 phone calls OP was fair but could have been less brusque (cue the chorus about female socialisation) b) I thought the non gift giving was mean c) it doesn't in my view have much to do with feminism but more to do with family relationships.

I've changed my view on the gift giving as OP and others have made clear that this is not 'a thing' and the aunt by marriage relationship is not expected to continue after a divorce. I don't share those feelings but I respect that it's different for other people. It's the harping about doormats etc that annoys me. It's nothing to do with that.

Yes your being a dick. Talking to family is hardly screen time.

*I’m totally fascinated how posters view it as the dads job because it’s her sister.

While you may have a point so many people split up if we all held this view it would mean the kids wouldn’t bond with their cousins from the dads side of the family.*

In lots of cases the new woman doesn't like the ex socialising with her XILs. They see it as muscling in on her territory and they perceive it as preventing her bonding as much with the ILs as the ex.

The split in this case was acrimonious and apart from MIL it seems that the other members of the family prefer to pretend that OP doesn't exist even if they were close before. It would be insanity and demeaning to impose yourself on people who don't want to be cordial despite the split.

There are Dads who stick up for their side of the family and it sounds like there is lots of socialising with SIL and cousin on Dad's weekends. I think it's perfectly fine for OP's dd to see her maternal cousins on the other 50% of weekends. The problem is OP's ex being too tight/lazy to buy gifts and his family excusing that behaviour because he's a man. Thanks to the Internet and 24 hour supermarkets, shopping for other people has never been easier.

@GlummyMcGlummerson

Again, someone please answer - at what point do we expect men to be responsible for basic things like buying presents for their family. Why is the default that a woman does it for them?

It's strange how many of these men who can't be expected to buy gifts for family, cope perfectly well buying gifts for their mistresses (in the early days at least!) Or is that just my ex?

@RosyPickle the comments about men being infantilised and wife work are in response to the SIL and several posters assuming that it’s OP’s responsibility to pick up her exH’s slack because he is too lazy to buy a gift for his nephew. Some posters have even gone as far as to call her mean because of it. It’s nothing to do with her!

As you have acknowledged it’s perfectly fine for her not to buy a gift for the nephew, and that’s that. She certainly shouldn’t be obliged to do it on behalf of someone she used to be married to.