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Anybody else DISGUSTED at the anti lockdown protestors!?

696 replies

Duemarch2021 · 28/11/2020 22:43

It makes me so angry that people are protesting about lockdown... yes its frustrating but it's being done for a reason... to try and prevent as many deaths as there would be without a lockdown... they are selfishly spreading covid and yhe police have to put themselves out there and risk their lifes to stop the gatherings! 😠 What do they think will happen!? That government will say ok- ok you win... go wild, have fun and mingle lets just forget covid now!?.....Does this make anybody else absolutely fuming at the human race!!!?

OP posts:
maureenfrombarnsley · 29/11/2020 23:01

Flaxmeadow

I'm really not trying to put words in your mouth but your questions (which have no easy answers) and your repeated use of the term Covid Deniers undermines the validity of what the protestors are doing. I don't think they're obligated to produce a list of demands and a 5-year plan (maybe some would?).

You said earlier you think that "most" are in favour of restrictions. Without protests, government might assume the same. This is a legal and effective way to register their objections in hopes that parliament will take heed and adapt the approach.

To me the fact that these people aren't one organized group confirms that it's not just anarchists and nutters - the anger and desperation is being felt from many sides, for various legitimate reasons.

Krampusnacht · 29/11/2020 23:07

@Flaxmeadow whilst I wish no harm to the elderly and vulnerable, this cannot continue. We cannot as a whole country continue to be out on lockdown to protect the few. Not anymore. We have given the government 9 months to sort this out, a pandemic they were warned about in 2001 I might add, and they failed at every turn. Their pandemic plan has had 19 years to be worked upon, and yet they continued to cut funds to the NHS knowing full well that it would buckle should a pandemic ever arise. I for one am not prepared to give them a minute more compliance.

Flaxmeadow · 29/11/2020 23:15

maureenfrombarnsley

But they are covid deniers. They deny what would happen without lockdown. They deny the extent to which services would suffer. Whether they believe the virus is real or not, on a molecular level, it's still covid denial

DipSwimSwoosh · 29/11/2020 23:16

This is not a dictatorship. They can disagree. The police will not die coming into contact with them. Or it's unlikely. Vulnerable police should not be there, and the protesters probably believe themselves to be Covid free.

Flaxmeadow · 29/11/2020 23:19

Krampusnacht

The lockdowns are not to "protect the few". They are to protect the services, for all of us. What would happen if our local hospital was under a state of collapse. No ambulances anyway to get us there, notnjustbfornhours but days. What if, God forbid, our family needed urgent medical attention, any reason, accident or whatever, but there was nothing there

GCAcademic · 29/11/2020 23:22

@Tolleshunt

Have 58000 people committed suicide directly due to covid restrictions Delphine? That is a shocking figure if so!

It’d be interesting to tot up the increased suicides from the start of lockdown until the economic and social ramifications are over (some years in the future), and also the extra deaths from cancer, heart attack, stroke, stillbirth (doubled since lockdown) and all the other needless deaths caused by the NHS basically shutting up shop for anything other than Covid.

Taken all together I can imagine they might well overtake Covid deaths.

Assuming you want a methodologically-sound comparison, don’t forget to add to the 58,000 all the COVID deaths that have been prevented by the lockdowns over the last eight months. At an exponential rate, that should be many, many times the current number of deaths.
whiterabbitsweets · 29/11/2020 23:23

@Flaxmeadow

maureenfrombarnsley

But they are covid deniers. They deny what would happen without lockdown. They deny the extent to which services would suffer. Whether they believe the virus is real or not, on a molecular level, it's still covid denial

I don't believe they're deniers any more than I am or any of the others calling for an end of lockdowns and a better system.

Trouble is, if you only have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Your trouble is, you are unable to see that there are other solutions that don't involve lockdowns.

Do you think you know more than the WHO?

ThatIsNotMyUsername · 29/11/2020 23:24

Why can’t they sod off and demonstrate in their own neighbourhoods? I am pissed off with every idiot deciding that they need to protest en masse on my bloody doorstep.

Flaxmeadow · 29/11/2020 23:26

whiterabbitsweets

But what are their "other solutions"? As I've said, I don't see any being put forward by the protesters

boobot1 · 29/11/2020 23:26

@Duemarch2021

It makes me so angry that people are protesting about lockdown... yes its frustrating but it's being done for a reason... to try and prevent as many deaths as there would be without a lockdown... they are selfishly spreading covid and yhe police have to put themselves out there and risk their lifes to stop the gatherings! 😠 What do they think will happen!? That government will say ok- ok you win... go wild, have fun and mingle lets just forget covid now!?.....Does this make anybody else absolutely fuming at the human race!!!?
You are soooooo wrong
maureenfrombarnsley · 29/11/2020 23:29

Flaxmeadow

Of course they're not. How ridiculous. They can believe covid exists and not extrapolate the same conclusions that you do.

The WHO has stated that lockdowns are not suitable solutions to the covid issue - is the WHO also a covid denier?

By advocating FOR lockdowns are you a recession denier? A bankruptcy denier? A suicide denier?

Mamanyt · 29/11/2020 23:32

HMMMMMM...I cannot get an image to post, however, look up images of smallpox. Now, the question becomes, "IF COVID-19 looked like that, rather than being "invisible" symptoms, would we even be having this discussion at all? Would ANY of us even think of breaking restrictions?

whiterabbitsweets · 29/11/2020 23:41

@Flaxmeadow

whiterabbitsweets

But what are their "other solutions"? As I've said, I don't see any being put forward by the protesters

I'll be honest, I don't know but the WHO are keen to work with governments to bring them all together, especially in the west, as they're all acting like headless chickens.

I'll say it again. Many countries have successfully balanced covid-19 with lower death rates and no lockdowns.

Do you think it's impossible for Western governments to bang their heads together and study the successful countries? That's exactly what I'd be doing.

Without speaking to the protestors none of us know what solutions they may/may not be putting forward. However, by reducing all of them to 'protestors' you're failing to consider that these are likely real people with real and valid opinions.

Krampusnacht · 29/11/2020 23:43

@Flaxmeadow

Krampusnacht

The lockdowns are not to "protect the few". They are to protect the services, for all of us. What would happen if our local hospital was under a state of collapse. No ambulances anyway to get us there, notnjustbfornhours but days. What if, God forbid, our family needed urgent medical attention, any reason, accident or whatever, but there was nothing there

I see you've ignored the part where I pointed out about the government being warned of a pandemic almost 20 years ago, and that same government continuing to cut funding to the NHS. They've had plenty of time over the years to build it up but instead they lined their own pockets.

My DD is pregnant with her first child and there is barely any ante natal care for her despite the fact that there are zero cases in our hospital because it has neither an ICU or an A&E. Our Nightingale sits empty as it has been throughout. My cousin has had her lifesaving treatment stopped indefinitely and will most likely die of her illness. Meanwhile her husband (who works in a hospital), wrings his hands at the sight of closed oncology departments, worried that he'll be left to care for their young DC as a widower.

There already is no service for people. Have you not seen the threads on here? People's lifesaving treatment has been stopped. So what are we 'saving' if there's no care for anyone but Covid patients? Certainly not the majority!

Flaxmeadow · 29/11/2020 23:49

maureenfrombarnsley Of course they're not. How ridiculous. They can believe covid exists and not extrapolate the same conclusions that you do.

They are in denial about the consequences of not having lockdowns and restrictions. They want no lockdown and restrictions at all

The WHO has stated that lockdowns are not suitable solutions to the covid issue - is the WHO also a covid denier?

No they didn't say that. As I remember it one member of WHO spoke out of turn and had to retract or modify the statement

Not that I'd take much stock of what the WHO say anyway. This was the organisation that on January 14th said there is "no evidence of human to human transmission", when there very clearly was. A week later Wuhan was completely shut off and locked down and the virus was already on the rampage across 3 continents. The WHO did not send any delegates to China until the 10th of February and on the 12th inst said "the virus is stabilised". They did not declare it pandemic until the 11th of March!

By advocating FOR lockdowns are you a recession denier? A bankruptcy denier? A suicide denier?

No I'm not and yes there will be recession without a doubt, though as said by a pp, there is not much evidence that suicides have increased.

It's a fine line. We need lockdown to protect services, but we also need the economy. This si why we have rolling lockdowns and we have been told this since March

MercyBooth · 29/11/2020 23:54

repeated use of the term Covid Deniers

Hillsborough tactics. The media are doing it too. You would have thought they would have learned by now.

whiterabbitsweets · 30/11/2020 00:00

@Krampusnacht

I'm so sorry to hear. I too have friends working in the aircraft industry who have lost their jobs with no idea what they're going to do next. Many are thinking of retraining but to do what when there's nothing?

58,000 deaths and a few 1,000 hospitalisations are horrific but we're fast approaching 400,000 redundancies plus 1,000's of business closures, looming home repossessions, destitute families and levels of poverty that have taken years to improve.

A balance needs to be struck and one that doesn't feature lockdowns in any significant way. ATB to you and yours.

MercyBooth · 30/11/2020 00:00

@ThatIsNotMyUsername They do. In Basildon last weekend.

Flaxmeadow · 30/11/2020 00:03

Krampusnacht I see you've ignored the part where I pointed out about the government being warned of a pandemic almost 20 years ago, and that same government continuing to cut funding to the NHS. They've had plenty of time over the years to build it up but instead they lined their own pockets.

All Gov't over the years have had to budget services, the world over. This is not news. It's what they do. Take from one department to fund other more needy departments. But hindsight is a wonderful thing and what's the point in raking over old coals now?

My DD is pregnant with her first child and there is barely any ante natal care for her despite the fact that there are zero cases in our hospital because it has neither an ICU or an A&E. Our Nightingale sits empty as it has been throughout. My cousin has had her lifesaving treatment stopped indefinitely and will most likely die of her illness. Meanwhile her husband (who works in a hospital), wrings his hands at the sight of closed oncology departments, worried that he'll be left to care for their young DC as a widower.

This is not my experience of the people I know who have required treatment. Vital services never stopped working in hospitals. The Govt even had to start a media campiagn to tell people to keep going to hospital for urgent treatment. The police, social services, food retail never stopped working either

There already is no service for people. Have you not seen the threads on here? People's lifesaving treatment has been stopped. So what are we 'saving' if there's no care for anyone but Covid patients? Certainly not the majority!

No they have not been stopped. I dont know why you keep repeating this. Your GP and hospital are still functioning. They are still open. When did they ever shut?

Some minor or non life threatening surgery was cancelled yes, some screening too, but life saving treatments still went ahead

user1471562688 · 30/11/2020 00:04

@cakewitch

Be grateful we live in a place that allows free speech, OP. Theres lots of places around the world where soldiers with guns would stop this and many other freedoms we take for granted. Would you rather have that?
We're not far off it.
CayrolBaaaskin · 30/11/2020 00:07

No, I agree with their right to protest. Maybe you need to think about why you are “DISGUSTED”

Flaxmeadow · 30/11/2020 00:09

Hillsborough tactics

You bring up conversational "tactics" and you have the bare faced cheek to mention this? Low

MercyBooth · 30/11/2020 00:13

Painting working class people as something they arent. There is your parallel.

There were plenty of people on that march who arent Covid deniers. I saw a woman on video near the front with a mask on.

Krampusnacht · 30/11/2020 00:16

@Flaxmeadow I am TELLING you that my cousins treatment has been stopped. That our oncology department is closed. That is fact.

My daughter has had one over the phone ante natal appointment and the rest cancelled. That is fact.

Are you saying I'm mistaken?? Lying?? I assure you I'm not.

How about you check a few of the threads on MN with people saying their loved one's treatments have been stopped. That they can't see their GP. A&E is open but many essential departments are closed.

My elderly mum was due an endoscopy for suspected stomach cancer. Now she's having it over the phone because the department is closed. Tell me how an endoscopy can happen over the phone.

She was supposed to see ENT for her glaucoma test to make sure her drops are working. Now that's happening over the phone because ENT is closed. Tell me how they can test her glaucoma over the phone.

She needed ENT for a hearing test and has now been told to go to Specsavers because as I said, ENT is closed.

You see very blinkered as to what's going on in the world.

maureenfrombarnsley · 30/11/2020 00:18

*Flaxmeadow
*
How can you possibly presume to state what "they" think? Have you spoken to all of them? You insist you're in favour of protests, yet continue to denigrate the participants, even when people have explained to you the perfectly valid reasons for their position.

The only reasonable certainty one can draw is they don't agree with lockdown. Lots of people don't. To my original point, if everyone agreed with you, we wouldn't NEED draconian laws and fines because the majority would choose to act in their own interest and stay in.

By your own logic you most definitely are a recession denier because you are in favour of the very measures which cause it, therefore you must be in denial (you must see how easy it is to invert your 'covid-denier' rationale?)

Your critique of The WHO makes my point for me. 9 months on and there is absolutely NO consensus. All the more justification for rigorous debate.