Anybody else DISGUSTED at the anti lockdown protestors!?

[Duemarch2021]

It makes me so angry that people are protesting about lockdown... yes its frustrating but it's being done for a reason... to try and prevent as many deaths as there would be without a lockdown... they are selfishly spreading covid and yhe police have to put themselves out there and risk their lifes to stop the gatherings! 😠 What do they think will happen!? That government will say ok- ok you win... go wild, have fun and mingle lets just forget covid now!?.....Does this make anybody else absolutely fuming at the human race!!!?

I think it's brilliant that people are protesting the destruction of jobs, businesses and basic freedoms. I wouldn't do it myself but I'm glad they're taking place.

maureenfrombarnsley

Some did protest against seat belts, speed limits, crash helmets but most understood that the laws were sensible. The covid measures and laws I would say most agree with too

The covid measures are certainly not "unprecedented". We've had measures in the past to deal with pandemics and health emergencies, the black death, tuberculosis. Alos sanitation laws. A landlord for example could not let a property with no drains or sanitation pipe. It would be illegal. We've also had quarantine laws at our borders at various times, mostly to do with animals. The USA was very strict about immigration and infectious disease until quite recently.

I didn't say protest is a problem, I said the opposite, that people should have the right to protest peacefully, but I just wonder where does it go from here. Non compliance? What then?

My son's line of work isn't even in the top 10 places where covid is spread. In fact it doesn't make the list at all for places you could catch it. It's a sterile environment in the first place and with extra measures it's practically clinical! And yet that profession was among the last places allowed to reopen during first lockdown, and had to close again during lockdown 2 despite being proven covid safe environments.

Now tell me where the logic is in that? He'll be lucky if his business can recover this second time around. If he told me he wanted to go protest I'd be there at his side. It's absolute nonsense how we've accepted and complied with such ridiculous measures.

@cbt944

The thing is, when a rule is worth following, and people can see the value in it, they follow it willingly anyway. Like seatbelt-wearing, like not drink-driving.

No, they don't. That's why there are fines for not doing these things and they are policed.

Yes they do. As I said there will always be dissenters but they are a minority, and fines are handy for raising revenue. Nobody goes out protesting en masse against seatbelt laws.

Covid laws have been in place for months and months, and the mood is ever-growing AGAINST them.

Be grateful we live in a place that allows free speech, OP. Theres lots of places around the world where soldiers with guns would stop this and many other freedoms we take for granted. Would you rather have that?

Covid laws have been in place for months and months, and the mood is ever-growing AGAINST them.

Yes, a global pandemic is hard to live with.

@cakewitch

Be grateful we live in a place that allows free speech, OP. Theres lots of places around the world where soldiers with guns would stop this and many other freedoms we take for granted. Would you rather have that?

Don't rule out the UK becoming one of them

Bet you're OK with Christmas with your mum though. Germany has never banned protests at any point in the last nine months. Of course they are idiots, but we're a democracy and should have the right to free assembly.

I think it's brilliant that people are protesting the destruction of jobs, businesses and basic freedoms. I wouldn't do it myself but I'm glad they're taking place.

So if this is what they're protesting, what is it they want in place?

It's all very well shouting in the street about "basic freedoms", whatever basic freedoms means, but what are the acrually aims? What are the proposals?

Is it just a complete end to all covid measures and laws? Is that the plan?

Krampusnacht

It isn't about your son, or my son, or her over there's son. It's about all of us. It's a public health issue and the laws are to protect everyone and laws cannot be tailored to suit individual circumstances

Your son, even without covid, still has to abide by law as he runs his own business. Employment law, health and safety law, tax law etc. These laws are in place to protect society as a whole

@cbt944
1918 Spanish flu
"There was no centrally imposed lockdown to curb the spread of infection"
Source: www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/in-pictures-52564371

Lockdowns are experimental and our numbers are on par with countries without restrictions. We have destroyed our economy for nothing and our grandchildren will be paying off the debt. The gradual realisation of this is what has led to protests

@cbt944

Covid laws have been in place for months and months, and the mood is ever-growing AGAINST them.

Yes, a global pandemic is hard to live with.

Indeed, but infinitely harder when your government has no clue whatsoever.

They've had all year to formulate a working plan that doesn't wreck more lives than the virus is supposed to. We're quickly reaching a point, if not already, where the cure is more damaging than the virus.

You wrote: we have never before quarantined healthy people.

During the Spanish flu, many cities did impose quarantines, and had far better outcomes than those that let it run rife.

@Flaxmeadow

I think it's brilliant that people are protesting the destruction of jobs, businesses and basic freedoms. I wouldn't do it myself but I'm glad they're taking place.

So if this is what they're protesting, what is it they want in place?

It's all very well shouting in the street about "basic freedoms", whatever basic freedoms means, but what are the acrually aims? What are the proposals?

Is it just a complete end to all covid measures and laws? Is that the plan?

I think the plan is for our government to actually consider how the more successful countries have managed. They can then bring all that knowledge together to formulate a working system that protects and keeps the economy going.

What is so incomprehensible about learning from the more experienced instead of rinse and repeat?

Honestly, don't we often say that the definition of insanity is repeating the same thing but expecting a different outcome?

@cbt944

You wrote: we have never before quarantined healthy people.

During the Spanish flu, many cities did impose quarantines, and had far better outcomes than those that let it run rife.

You stated this already, but you have yet to cite any sources.

Indeed, but infinitely harder when your government has no clue whatsoever

I'd wager the Gov't have more of a clue than those protesting in London on Saturday.

@Flaxmeadow

maureenfrombarnsley

Some did protest against seat belts, speed limits, crash helmets but most understood that the laws were sensible. The covid measures and laws I would say most agree with too

The covid measures are certainly not "unprecedented". We've had measures in the past to deal with pandemics and health emergencies, the black death, tuberculosis. Alos sanitation laws. A landlord for example could not let a property with no drains or sanitation pipe. It would be illegal. We've also had quarantine laws at our borders at various times, mostly to do with animals. The USA was very strict about immigration and infectious disease until quite recently.

I didn't say protest is a problem, I said the opposite, that people should have the right to protest peacefully, but I just wonder where does it go from here. Non compliance? What then?

I will qualify my use of the word "unprecedented". The Black Death had a 50% death rate. The average COVID death is aged 82. According to Government data, 1,802 people were admitted to ICU or high-dependency units with the flu in the UK during peak flu season last year. The fatality rate in those cases was 5.7%, almost twice the current Covid death rate - we didn't shut the country down for months on end and quarantine the healthy. In this context, 9 months (and counting) of preventing people from seeing family or opening their business to free and willing customers is absolutely unprecedented. Our own PM and media outlets freely acknowledge how extreme these measures are for us.

I disagree that "most people" are in favour of these measures, which is why the latest lockdown was visibly less adhered to than the first, and the protests are growing. The replies on this thread reveal how polarized the debate is (albeit for some reason I can't see the actual polling!)

I'm not aware of large scale protests about any of those car laws, but will take your word for it. You asked where it ends. Did those protestors go and drink drive and kill loads of people just to make a point? They didn't, so it's a non-concern really. I don't really follow your point. Peaceful protest is just that.

If the restrictions genuinely have public backing, why should a few outdoor protests bother anyone? Nobody in parliament speaks for the other side, so there is literally nothing else those people can do but exercise their basic right to peacefully protest. That can only be a good thing.

You stated this already, but you have yet to cite any sources.

Oh, sorry, was I suppose to submit my thesis!

www.nytimes.com/2007/04/17/health/17flu.html#:~:text=In%20St.%20Louis%2C%20where%20members%20of%20the%20American,Philadelphia%20in%20September%2C%20it%20struck%20with%20a%20vengeance.

In St. Louis, where members of the American Red Cross removed victims of the 1918 Spanish flu from a house, a quarantine was instituted early. (from above...)

Fair enough that you disagree with them OP, but "DISGUSTED"?!! They've every right to protest - or should demos only happen of you agree with them?

we have never before quarantined healthy people

We have never before been in a situation where we have scientific evidence of asymptomatic spread.

Healthy people are not being quarantined. Sick people and those in close contact with those who have tested positive are being asked to self-isolate - and the rest of the population are being asked to observe precautionary measures to prevent spread. Just as happened with TB and Spanish flu.

We are simply not used to being in the grip of a pandemic - we have got used to being in control as humans. The measures that are being taken now - too late - are an attempt to keep as many people as possible alive and well in the face of an organism that shares our planet and is in competition with us. The measures are part of the survival of the fittest - fittest in this case means those with the scientific weapons to come out on top. We hope.

maureenfrombarnsley

You seem to be under the impression that I'm against protests. I'm not. I just don't understand

What they want?
Where the protest will end?

It just seems to be a disparate bunch of shouty covid deniers at the moment. They are not under any unifying banner or group. They seem to come from all persuasions and political sides . I'm not sure what to think

@Flaxmeadow

Krampusnacht

It isn't about your son, or my son, or her over there's son. It's about all of us. It's a public health issue and the laws are to protect everyone and laws cannot be tailored to suit individual circumstances

Your son, even without covid, still has to abide by law as he runs his own business. Employment law, health and safety law, tax law etc. These laws are in place to protect society as a whole

What does that have to do with the government imposing lockdown that made him close his business and the businesses of countless others? Without covid he'd be open and earning money to support his newborn son and wife.

And you can stick your 'it's about all of us' bullshit. It's all very well for those who could wfh and have a comfortable existence throughout. I saw my son on his knees and struggling to support his family, crying, his mental health in tatters and his best friend in ICU from an overdose because his business folded during first lockdown and just as he found employment in the hospitality sector they were closed down in lockdown 2. So spare me. Lockdown needs to stop. Full stop.

Krampusnacht

Im sorry to hear that but with respect, your son is not the only person going through financial hardship and mental anguish at the moment.

If we do not control the spread of this virus somehow, for the time being, there will be no functioning NHS. our health service will collapse . Supermarket food deliveries and staffing problems would be way beyond what we saw in March. The police and social services would be put under unimaginable pressure. What then for those with severe mental health problems. For the elderly, the vulnerable and children at risk?

I'm not sure what you want to see happen? What do you want Gov't to do?

BTW this below is not my situation. Its no good getting angry with me

It's all very well for those who could wfh and have a comfortable existence throughout

I know it's not only my son in financial hardship, which is why lockdown needs to end. Completely. This virus has been around for 12 months now (first recorded case December 1st 2019), and it's not going anywhere any time soon.