Anybody else DISGUSTED at the anti lockdown protestors!?

[Duemarch2021]

It makes me so angry that people are protesting about lockdown... yes its frustrating but it's being done for a reason... to try and prevent as many deaths as there would be without a lockdown... they are selfishly spreading covid and yhe police have to put themselves out there and risk their lifes to stop the gatherings! 😠 What do they think will happen!? That government will say ok- ok you win... go wild, have fun and mingle lets just forget covid now!?.....Does this make anybody else absolutely fuming at the human race!!!?

I think they are complete twats and I have walked past them in London and there are some really unsavoury elements amongst them. It’s the same people who would vote for Nigel Farrage. Is he not turning his Brexit party into the anti - lockdown party?

YABU. We are supposed to be a freedom country. Its the brave actions of people like these protesters which will ensure we stay that way.

@bearandowl

YABU. We are supposed to be a freedom country. Its the brave actions of people like these protesters which will ensure we stay that way.

You are mistaking freedom for individualism

You live in a society, you benefit from that...you are free to go and find somewhere outside of society if you really don't like it ...to gain the benefits of society you trade some individual freedoms to enable the success and freedom of the society

@midgebabe - to clarify, are you saying you do not support the right to protest?

to gain the benefits of society you trade some individual freedoms to enable the success and freedom of the society

I'm a strong believer in this 'for the many not the few' etc. But no one seems to be looking at the numbers here. How many people, children and adults, have made significant, lasting sacrifices (mental, financial, educational..) for a virus that is 99% likely to cause them no harm? These people are the 'many' in this situation.

Don't particularly agree with what they're protesting about but I fully support and defend their legal right to protest. Once we start picking and choosing which causes are worthy of protest we are on downhill slope as a society I think.

@Neron

I also wonder how many of the people on MN who point to the suicide rate have picked up the phone, called someone they know who is alone, been a friend, taken food parcels a person, or a neighbor who is elderly and afraid to go out? How many have volunteered their time to be on a helpline for people in distress to call?

I've done a few of the above examples. My Dad killed himself, I know what it's like to have my family and my own lives destroyed as a result of it. Instead of all this bitching back and forth, why not have some compassion for people who have lost everything - their life, their home, their jobs, their marriage. Instead of wanting people to prove the suicide stats, or mocking those for pointing out the increase in suicide, or DV etc - how about you be grateful that you are not in their position.

I'm so sorry for your loss. My position own is based on not wanting to lose anymore of my own family. I've been to too many funerals this year and seen / felt more pain than I ever imagined possible. I don't want anyone else to have to live through what we have. I'm grateful for every person in my family who is alive right now. Most people cannot imagine the devastation unless they have been affected by one of the tens of thousands of deaths so far.

You are so right:

how about you be grateful that you are not in their position.

I watched a bit of the protest in London yesterday on YouTube. It was a live feed.
There was a little old man who was probably nearly 90, he had a little hand made board which he has written on, stuck onto a piece of wood and then stuck out the top of his little shopping cart.
2 policemen were talking to him and saying they believed he was there for a protest, he said he wasn’t, he was just there to tell people things.
Suddenly they were surrounded by police who stood in a circle around him and told him that he had 2 options, he could either go home or one of the nice gentleman in the yellow jackets would ask him His details and arrest him.
I was really shocked at how the Police were trying to intimidate this old man, particularly how they suddenly all surrounded him in a circle. His picture was actually in the Daily Mail today.

We are quite possibly causing more deaths by locking down than we are saving, and the government handling of the crisis and suppression of relevant facts and info that do not support their agenda is appalling.

I fully support the protest.

The harm caused by the lack of cancer treatment, the damage to mental health and the devastation of deepest recession in our lifetime needs to be balanced against the harm of the virus. I believe we’ve got those out of balance at the moment.

Does that mean I think everyone should be hugging each other and licking door handles? No, but businesses should be allowed to operate in a COVID safe manner.

They have every right to protest and I applaud them for getting out there and actually doing it. Our rights ARE being destroyed and we will not get them back unless people stand up and protest!

You are mistaking freedom for individualism

So peaceful protesting is now considered "individualism" is it!!! Have we really really come to this.

Those protesters posed no health risks whatsoever as they were outside. Most supermarkets and the London tube system are more crowded than that.

@MadameBlobby

But there is the problem *@Pinkyxx*. Your number 3 is not a feasible way for society to function.

This how past pandemics have been managed. What do you suggest - let it rip?

If so as yourself how many member of your family are you prepared to lose.

The last major pandemic this country suffered was during the 1st World War, the measures used were similar as you simply can't change the reality of what a virus is or how it transmits (albeit incredibly difficult to implement in war time). I don't know how it compares in terms of R to Covid but the global death toll was frightening. I don't recall my grandmother ever mentioning the pandemic beyond it was happening, distancing was a minor inconvenience compared to war / rationing etc. They were glad to be alive.

You live in a society, you benefit from that...you are free to go and find somewhere outside of society if you really don't like it ...to gain the benefits of society you trade some individual freedoms to enable the success and freedom of the society

Yes and it is a democratic society which should uphold the right to peaceful protest. Even if I wouldn’t protest for this it is crucial it is maintained. Other posters might prefer another system of suppressing the pandemic (non western for example), but I’d say they should seek out a country with those values.

The social contract with the state is not take it or leave it.
It’s a constant process of negotiation, the right to peaceful protest is essential.

Lockdown has destroyed more people and jobs than the virus ever would have. Poorer communities like mine will carry to weight of lockdown for at least a generation.

I respect the protesters and think that lockdown albeit important has caused a lot of unforeseen suffering and it’s time that was addressed.

Peaceful protesting in legal fashion isn't ground for arrest and I don't believe that is what happened in this case.

1.Viruses replicate by finding hosts.
2. They find new hosts spreading person to person
3. To prevent spread, all non-essential person to person contact must stop

What knowledge, mitigation effects or proven treatments have we gained that changes these fundamental facts

It's far less deadly/ dangerous then its made out to be.
I can't justify loosing my livelihood for this- and yet that is the situation I am facing with 1000's of others.
Yes, I can get it, yes I can die from it tomorrow but it's nothing compared to loosing everything! That's my home, my relationships and my children's future.

@Pinkyxx sorry to hear of your losses too

I support their protests.

I reluctantly tried to be on board with the first lockdown but it's effects on my family and myself were hard and I completely revised my opinion. None of us died, but my elderly parents were very ill several times with non-covid related stuff and almost couldn't get the help they needed. Nor could I visit them to help as there was nowhere I could stay.

I was also made redundant (the reasons were not Covid related, it would very probably have happened anyway but was made much worse by the lockdown). I currently seem to have zero prospects of more work, certainly in the short to medium term and probably for longer.

All in all it was hell, and I do know that a lot of people did suffer even worse than I did.

All of it colours how I view lockdowns. They are at best a blunt tool. The extent to which they achieve the desired effect is highly debatable.

We need the protests. People have accepted the withdrawal of their personal liberties far too easily. Some even enjoyed it, wanting to call the police on neighbours for going out too much, wanting people's shopping trolleys to be policed, wanting to call the police because someone was sitting on a park bench!!!

What the fuck have we come to?

I don’t want to let it rip @Pinkyxx and I have already said I support the current restrictions, but I support the right of people who don’t to protest.

None of it changes the fact that society including the economy cannot function without non essential contact with others. At some point a decision has to be made on that. It looks like the vaccine will save the government’s backside on that however.

And maybe people aren’t “glad to be alive” if all they have in life that make it worth living for them has been stolen from them by the government based on dodgy data and “evidence” that they don’t even publish.

@sinuhe I am also likely to lose my livelihood due to covid impact. It has collapsed the industry I specialized in and it's unlikely it will ever rebuild now. I will need to retrain and start again. It's going to be really difficult as a single parent and I worry about the future as I am the only earner in my family. People lose their jobs for many reasons (and will continue to when Covid is over) and they have to start afresh. I do however know that the longer economic impact continues, the harder getting another job will be. The more Covid rates go up (which they will if mixing resumes or continues.. ) the more controls will need to be imposed to control hospital admission and the harsher the impact to the economy. Lifting restrictions won't solve the problem you're looking to avoid, it will compound it in the long run. We can't escape this reality.

I just don't personally feel that my own needs or livelihood is more important than anyone's life, family, or future. I'll do what I need to do to care and provide for my family harsh as it may well be.

[quote AHippoNamedBooBooButt]@MakeItRain I imagine a lot of protesters have come from Kent. That's where I am, going from tier 1 to tier 3. We're a large county, my town has one of the lowest virus rates in the whole country. But we're now tier 3?? Because one area has the worst. But that area is quite far away from us, and is home to 3 prisons which are having mass outbreaks. I think a blanket tier system is wrong and it should be down to county leaders to decide the best way forward. I would like to see Kent's rates after the prisons and schools are removed from it, seeing as they will still be open and cases will still be spreading. What's the point of shutting the pubs and restaurants when there wasn't many cases linked to them, but keeping schools open spreading the virus. And I'm not advocating for schools to close, I want them to stay open, but i want those cases to be removed from the data determining our tier.
I agree with the protesters and the Tory rebels demanding more scrutiny. And I don't think a bunch of London based advisors know the individual counties well enough to make the decisions and constantly take away our freedoms. I don't want to be fined for having who I want in my house. It cannot be a criminal offence to have a friend visit my home. It's wrong [/quote]
Kent isn't just tier 3 due to the prison outbreaks in one area. There are also very high covid rates in Maidstone, Sittingbourne, Chatham, Maidstone, Strood, Margate, Ramsgate and many other areas. Coronavirus.data.gov.uk has a map where you can check rates in different towns. Lots of schools across the Medway towns have had to close as so many teachers and children are isolating.

The reason for keeping whole counties in the same tier is if eg Chatham was tier 3, but Sevenoaks was tier 2, all that would happen is that people from Chatham will go to Sevenoaks to shop and visit restaurants etc. Covid rates would then go up in Sevenoaks too.

Instead of all this bitching back and forth, why not have some compassion for people who have lost everything - their life, their home, their jobs, their marriage. Instead of wanting people to prove the suicide stats, or mocking those for pointing out the increase in suicide, or DV etc - how about you be grateful that you are not in their position

Well said, @Neron

I want this pandemic to end ASAP, before more people die unnecessarily. And the end is now in sight.

The anti-lockdown protest I saw consisted of a large group of people marching together through the streets. There appeared to be no attempt at social distancing. How exactly will this help the situation?

If you remember, the government took no notice of the gigantic demonstrations in London opposing the part-privatisation of the NHS and the invasion of Iraq.

It's far less deadly/ dangerous then its made out to be.

Really? - and your evidence?

The first wave caused many deaths and the NHS was on its knees - have you forgotten this already?

The lockdowns and tier rules are a pain; but we have just all been lulled into thinking that life is within our control and we just trot along enjoying ourselves - we are not used to nature jumping up and biting us on the bum - unlike our predecessors, for whom this was normality. And who would have been deeply grateful that science has a vaccine on the horizon and that measures to control the spread are in place.

Some people are taking longer to get their heads round the insignificance of human beings in the scheme of things. And the power of viruses. It took our government a while to get that into their heads - they chose to stand for government to obtain power and suddenly they find that whipped away from them by a microscopic bug. They were very slow off the mark and we are paying the price now.

Let us be grateful for the stringent measures that are being taken to protect us now. And just bite the bullet and get on with it. My grandparents who lived through the war would see these things as merely minor inconveniences. I know it is tough - god knows I should - my OH died in February and I am now completely on my own - I would like nothing better than to be out and about and enjoying the company of friends and family. But I have a part to play in society, a mutual duty to keep everyone as safe as possible - and that is simply how it has to be.