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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Do schools not distinguish between homework done independently and that ‘done’ by parents?

294 replies

NellyJames · 27/11/2020 16:19

Just tried to post this in education but it doesn’t seem to want to post:
DS has been upset as they have a HW ladder where they sit on certain rungs depending upon how the do in their homework. He’s middling and hasn’t really been moving. This is fine by me as it reflects where he is/should be I guess. However, he’s getting upset as he keeps asking me to help (answers not explaining concept) and says everyone else’s mum helps. I’ve been telling him this isn’t true but talking to some other mums they’ve confirmed they always help otherwise their child would get 4/5/6 questions wrong each week. I often see DS getting the wrong answer but I never correct him. The most I’ll do is encourage him to check them. Anyway, DS tells me these friends are up in the ‘clouds’ which is apparently the top rungs of the ladder. Now I feel bad but I still don’t want to help as surely his teacher needs to see which ones he doesn’t understand so she can target those with him? I emailed to ask earlier this week and she’s just emailed back confirming the ladder is used as motivation. Today one of his friends got the gold award for consistently ‘excellent standard of homework!’ hmm I don’t know if I’m being unreasonable.

OP posts:
pigcon1 · 27/11/2020 21:06

My parents never at any stage in my schooling helped in any way with my education. You’ll have to imagine my surprise when I realised the parental contribution made (at the point I had my own children) and on seeing that the person I sat opposite at work helped their children by checking every single essay even at degree level and then gradually realising this was the middle class professional norm....state school/private school pfff - this is the single biggest differential - if you have time, you can drive this for your child through their education and no doubt it benefits them.

TheRubyRedshoes · 27/11/2020 21:09

Year 5 is very different from year 3.

Ideally by 5 year the foundations of learning should be firmly in place so the child can hold their own, they should be confident to try, know all the basic concepts, be able to try work themselves.

Very different to the earlier years. They need all the help they can get if they are not getting things... They really do.

Ideally the earlier years should be flooded with tas support who have sen training, and other specialisms and tips and tricks to get all dc to a certain level.

I've been utterly gob smacked by dds learning journey so far!
She's come on from a very low level all with some hints and tips. Shocking really.

She could have so easily fallen by the way side.

SuperCaliFragalistic · 27/11/2020 21:10

I don't spoon feed the answers but I do check it over and point out if she has got any wrong to have another look. Luckily she doesn't tend to find it too hard. She often refuses to redo it though and that's her choice I guess to some extent. If she's not put any effort in she doesn't get any screens until she's had another go. Sometimes she's too lazy to do it properly which is well annoying.

A homework ladder would probably motivate my DD tbh. She knows the teacher isn't bothered but she likes to be on a par with her friends. I can see why it wouldn't be helpful for everyone though.

TheRubyRedshoes · 27/11/2020 21:11

Pig continues, where they need it maybe, many don't.

NellyJames · 27/11/2020 21:12

@NoPainNoTartine, why am I lucky she passed? We live in a grammar area. They are tiered. She really wanted the top one (close to top in country) but there’s another couple slightly less competitive had she not passed then there’s the comp. If we’d tutored her she may have passed when her natural ability wasn’t suited to it. It’s not that I didn’t want her to go nor that I wasn’t supportive. It’s just that I wanted her to end up where her natural ability took her. She’s Y11 now and copes very well with the workload.

OP posts:
AIMD · 27/11/2020 21:13

I think ‘helping’ could mean many things.
Clearly all but doing the work for your child is not helpful. I see many young children going into school with projects they’ve made at home that they clearly had a huge amount of help with. I remember clearly my dad making a very detailed and intricate model of the Mary Rose that I took into school when I was about 7...it was ridiculous and I had very little input.

However helping explain questions or prompting them to get a home work routine in place I think is helpful.

I would actually personally like to have as little to do with my child’s home work as possible. We do tons of educational stuff ourself, tons of reading and crafts. I honestly don’t feel I should need to spend hours after school and work focusing on more work for us (my child is primary age).

ComeOnBabyHauntMyBubble · 27/11/2020 21:17

So taking tonight for example.

DD had to do something that she didn't really remember the method anymore and she hasn't done it at school in the format it was. Think bus stop by one digit numbers compared to two.

I could've let her do it all wrong.
I could've reminded her how to do it , and still get it wrong because she hasn't done two digits.
Or what I did and go through it step by step, start with one digit then teach her two and various ways to figure it out and then give encouragement ,reassurance once she tackled the actual homework and tell her to check/help when it didn't go quite right.

Why? Because I can and just in case she gets lost amongst other 30 children and the teacher doesn't realise she didn't get and it all goes over her head until next year.

NoPainNoTartine · 27/11/2020 21:20

because some entrance exams are more about learning to answer or express yourself in a certain way and not only about your natural ability.

because being tutored has nothing to do with coping or not with the workload, if you really want to argue you can see that extra tutoring work adds to your normal workload anyway.

because being tutored might very well mean the difference between arrive 50th and 51st, and going in or not.

It would be as weird as not booking a training coach for your child wanting to join some running or swimming event. It's not just about your ability.

As a parent your role is to help your child prepare as much as you possibly can. If you have the background to tutor as well as any paid tutor, it's a non-issue obviously.

Autumnblooms · 27/11/2020 21:27

Why have you posted the same thing twice?

If you think a teacher checks 30 kids homework, identifies where each went wrong then sits with each of them individually and works through it until they get it every week, then your very much mistaken as they don’t do that.

Help your child- it’s for his benefit, he won’t benefit otherwise, you will find that he just falls behind more and more.

Parents are not just giving the kids the answers, that’s pointless, they are teaching them- a teacher with 30 kids can only do so much, surly you can understand that.

Now your child is getting frustrated it’s easy for it to all go downhill from here now so be careful.

Good luck OP, hope he reaches the clouds soon.

NellyJames · 27/11/2020 21:40

@Autumnblooms, sorry, I explained earlier that it didn’t seem to post so I tried again. I did apologise.

OP posts:
NellyJames · 27/11/2020 21:42

Thank you to everyone. I’m going to leave the thread now. It’s been helpful to hear others’ POV. Thanks

OP posts:
TwinkleFairyLight · 28/11/2020 23:27

pigcon1 what you say is interesting.

I passed the 11+ for the grammar school. I never had any help from parents at all, either in primary or secondary, from my parents. No parent hand in any of my primary school art projects/competitions/spelling/maths tests. I remember once aged 8 I'd forgotten to do the weekend maths homework for the Monday and my mum was really resentful having to sit with me to do it on the Sunday night after I got out of bed at night in a panic when I remembered - I didn't ask her again. Grammar school was an alien world to my parents, and I think they thought it was like "private school" where you would be spoon-fed everything in a very nurturing, interested environment. In reality it was a brisk paced hard-nosed academic environment with no pastoral care or student support at all, where you swam or sank. I really struggled at times by myself and at some point I realised that other students' parents did help/tutor them through homework or at least took an interest in their subjects, timetabling, run them to after school sports activities etc and would help finding additional resources.

As a parent, I take a really active interest in my DCs work, homework etc and I know my Y8s timetable off by heart (not because I've studied it, but because I take an interest generally in what they have on the next day). I know when they have tests and assessments in school, what it entails and what work they have done for it. I have shown them how to revise and prioritise, and if they get stuck occasionally they know I am on hand to help either from my own knowledge (limited in some subjects, better in others!) but mainly in getting additional resources for them, such as books.

I did well enough(ish) at the grammar, but I know I could have achieved more with a more nurturing home environment. I know my parents were limited by their own poor education (not their fault) but they could at least have helped with the nuturing side. Instead I felt uncomfortably like they were slightly contemptuous of the "posh grammar school" and if I suggested I was lacking in understanding on a topic, their response would be along the lines of "What are you bloody learning at that bloody school then? Is everyone else struggling or is it just you? Because I'll go down there and I'll tell that bloody teacher she's not doing her bloody job properly!" etc. If I said some students did get it and the whole class wasn't in the dark, then therefore it must be my fault for not bloody listening properly. So I was stuck either way. Sad I don't want my DCs to feel they can't ask me for help and support like that.

Namenic · 28/11/2020 23:34

There are loads of workbooks you can get to practice. If he is struggling with something I would do lots of examples from the workbooks with him to make sure he understands the concept.

He can then do the homework on his own.

LoveMyKidsAndCats · 29/11/2020 00:18

Me and all my mum friends always helped them get to the right answer, as said above

LoveMyKidsAndCats · 29/11/2020 00:21

You refused to get a tutor.... wow.

StrawberryTot · 29/11/2020 00:50

I could only wish to help my DCs with their homework, but sadly I stopped understanding any form of school work years ago. Maths is an absolute no go (it’s like hitting a brick wall), I’ve literally no understanding of that subject whatsoever nowadays. English I help with spelling to some degree, grammar not so much. Science I try but it’s hit or miss. Languages hahaha nope. Although RE and history, love them but doesn’t mean I’m any help.

Nonetheless, I encourage them the best I can. In fact we sometimes use google and on occasion have asked Facebook for help with stuff we have absolutely no idea about. I’ve also watched far too many algebra and triangle angle explanation clips on YouTube than I would care to admit.

Strangely though the DCs seem to keep coming back for help, so clearly they haven’t caught onto the fact I’m stupid Grin

safclass · 29/11/2020 01:52

Ex teacher.
When our son is doing his homework, I watch over him. If I see him going wrong I may say is that right/just check it or I may let him do it anyway and then go through them after.
If he has really struggled I will write on his homework 'child found this difficult. We have worked through these together'.

jessstan1 · 29/11/2020 01:57

You're not stupid, Strawberry, you just have limits. I was the same when it came to maths but mine didn't have a problem with maths. He needed some help with other things and husband and I managed to help a bit. However the school was pretty good.

Make sure they read widely, discuss and analyse what they read, improve vocabulary and write well. The other thing that is helpful is doing puzzles of various kinds.

Graciebobcat · 29/11/2020 02:06

Depends what age they are. They should be working gradually towards managing homework themselves at secondary school. I hardly ever have to help with anything at secondary school, it's great!

PurpleFlower1983 · 29/11/2020 03:41

I don’t think it’s right for the teacher to use homework as a motivational tool as the home setting of the child can vary so much and that is out of the child’s control.

converseandjeans · 29/11/2020 04:11

@NellyJames

So does nobody else let their child hand in homework with incorrect answers? Shock I thought most people would. Clearly I’m way off the mark with this. And just to be clear again, I do get him to double check, occasionally saying to check no9 say. But I don’t tell him they’re wrong and spoon feed him the answer.
I've never given answers and just helped explain if needed.

I agree the homework should be their work not the parents.

It's a pushy parent problem not a teacher problem. I can't see how the teacher would be able to monitor who had help and who didn't.

I'm surprised at the number of posters saying you should make sure he hands in perfect work with no mistakes. It's not really the point of homework. We're both teachers & mostly don't help with homework. It's their work not yours!?

NoPainNoTartine · 29/11/2020 09:43

I'm surprised at the number of posters saying you should make sure he hands in perfect work with no mistakes.

I am surprised too as no one has said that.

longsigh · 29/11/2020 09:52

A HW ladder is very unfair as lots of children have parents that won't/ can't help their child so do they never move? Children bring work that they have done "by themselves" and it is obvious when they haven't done on their own straight away! A teacher can spot parent help.

Welcometonowhere · 29/11/2020 09:53

Let’s say this little boy hands in work that identifies a tree as a verb and green as an adverb.

That shows a lack of understanding of what nouns, adjectives, verbs snd adverbs are.

The teacher won’t muse over it at length and go through it with him again the next day. The only time teachers do that is when it becomes pretty obvious the majority of the class just haven’t understood something.

So as a parent you’d go through it again. A noun is a naming word. What do you think ‘tree’ is?

An adjective describes a noun, so what might green be?

Welcometonowhere · 29/11/2020 09:54

A teacher can spot parent help when someone brings in an award worthy model of the colosseum, sure. Not when it’s just a few sums or grammar exercises.