Do schools not distinguish between homework done independently and that ‘done’ by parents?

[NellyJames]

Just tried to post this in education but it doesn’t seem to want to post:
DS has been upset as they have a HW ladder where they sit on certain rungs depending upon how the do in their homework. He’s middling and hasn’t really been moving. This is fine by me as it reflects where he is/should be I guess. However, he’s getting upset as he keeps asking me to help (answers not explaining concept) and says everyone else’s mum helps. I’ve been telling him this isn’t true but talking to some other mums they’ve confirmed they always help otherwise their child would get 4/5/6 questions wrong each week. I often see DS getting the wrong answer but I never correct him. The most I’ll do is encourage him to check them. Anyway, DS tells me these friends are up in the ‘clouds’ which is apparently the top rungs of the ladder. Now I feel bad but I still don’t want to help as surely his teacher needs to see which ones he doesn’t understand so she can target those with him? I emailed to ask earlier this week and she’s just emailed back confirming the ladder is used as motivation. Today one of his friends got the gold award for consistently ‘excellent standard of homework!’ hmm I don’t know if I’m being unreasonable.

The learning in school is what the teacher will use to assess what the child has understood well and what they haven’t quite grasped yet.
The work sent home is extra to that. It should reinforce what they’ve already done at school. What helps the teacher is if parents support their child with the work. Let them have a go first but anything they get wrong I’d work through the question again with them and guide them as to how to get to the right answer.
It’s very difficult to assess what children have understood/not understood from homework as children have such different levels of support at home so I don’t think the teacher will be doing that at all. She will just want to see that they are doing the work and that they are getting support where needed. Any extra tuition from parents will help the child next time they use that concept in class!
So, yes I’d sit with them and guide them through any they get wrong to help them figure out how to get it right.

Usually homework will be reinforcing something that the children have been working in in class. So I would imagine that the teacher already knows which pupils have understood the work and which will need more help without looking at their homework.

How is a teacher meant to know whether the whole class did their homework on their own or with help though? Actually saying that I was once presented with a huge wad of past homework by a child who never did their homework. I was full of praise for their efforts until they said, “Actually, my mum did it.” What a waste of time! The child didn’t get the practise they needed and I dumped the whole plastic wallet in the bin (when the child had left of course). I hadn’t chased the homework as I knew the child had a very difficult home life and I’d certainly never told her off,so the mum had sat for ages filling in phonics homework (in her own handwriting 🤨) for no good reason.

I think you’re right in principle OP, but maybe need to adjust a bit to better reflect reality.

The teacher maybe isn’t able to track progress to that extent. I agree that a teacher should be doing that, but various reasons mean maybethey can’t, even with the best will in the world.

Later in his school career, some of his peers will have private tutors etc to help them. It’s not fair.

But equally, it’s a way to teach him that it’s ok to draw on other resources to solve a problem, that it’s ok to seek help, it’s ok to admit when you don’t understand something and try to correct that. Those are valuable to know as well.

You’re over thinking it.
If he does then wrong, tell him which ones are wrong. If it’s a silly mistake, let him have another go. If it’s a lack of understanding, teach him - he must be pretty young to have clouds!

I would absolutely aim for my child to hand them all in correctly every week.

Whenever I help her, say in Maths, I put an asterisk next ti the questions and a note at the bottom of the page saying ‘helped’.

But things like RE, that I couldn’t care less, I help her quite a bit to get it out if the way.

|I would say the issue here is the stupid homework ladder. It's unfair and discouraging for kids who don't have support at home. As for homework helping, I do think there's value in kids trying to work things out for themselves. When they get it wrong there's motivation to learn to check their own work without being prompted.

How can she know what questions he struggled with if I’ve led him clearly to the answer?

If I've led them to the answer by explaining the concept to them and they now understand, then why does the teacher need to know they struggled? The point is that now, they now.

If I tell them the answer and they still don't understand the actual concept, then yes, that's pointless.

Don’t be so sure that teachers are using the homework sheet of an indication of the help they need. I have teacher friends who know perfectly well how the kids are doing, and don’t need or want homework sheets - setting them only because they’ve been told to (hello Ofsted inspector)
The wrong answers wouldn’t flag any extra help - and by leaving them wrong, all you’re doing is wasting the opportunity to help your child yourself.

I can’t believe you would see him get wrong answers and not help him understand where he is going wrong.

It is unfair but so much in education is that the answer isn’t and won’t ever be to drag everybody down to the lowest level. I recognise it’s unfair some children have a tutor, parents to help with homework, a laptop, books and a secure space to work in. But I’m not going to not provide those things to my own DS because some children don’t have them.

I dont tell her the answer

I tell her which ones were wrong. We go through it. The problem is there are 30 in a class there are no guarantees they will go through it again.
I want to make sure she understands it. So will teach/ explain the concept.
Its obvious the ones she has had help with just cos you can see they have been rubbed out.
She is in year 2 . So hopefully will need less support as she gets older.

Ultimately it doesn't matter whether you helped your child understand and come to the right answer or whether the teacher did. Either way, they've learned how. Doing your child's homework for them is bad. Helping them with some bits, with the result that they get the answer right is not bad.

I'm a teacher btw. Yes the teacher needs to know if the child has failed to understand the whole topic/homework, but sorting out a couple of niggles with their mum or dad and arriving at the right answer is fine.

We help our 10 and 12 year - always have done. We check it (after the 12 year old has done it as he prefers it that way but we sit with the younger one). If we see they're making a mistake we go through it with them and make sure they understand how to do it. So we are not doing it for them but making sure they know how to themselves.

@NellyJames

So does nobody else let their child hand in homework with incorrect answers? I thought most people would. Clearly I’m way off the mark with this. And just to be clear again, I do get him to double check, occasionally saying to check no9 say. But I don’t tell him they’re wrong and spoon feed him the answer.

I don't understand why you wouldn't tell him he'd got something wrong? That doesn't really make any sense to me at all.

Have a look, see what he's got wrong, and see what you can do to help him understand it so he gets it right. Then, you can leave a note for the teacher to say he struggled with certain questions.

Oh and yy to the fact that teachers have to set homework and that homework is not the only way of knowing whether a child gets the work they're doing.

If you want the teacher to know what concepts he's struggling with, write her a note. You can just write it directly on his homework sheet each week if you want.

But I would be going through each of the questions he's getting wrong, step by step, with him. Working with him to break down the problem and encouraging him to re-think any step he's getting wrong, then guiding him through the right process if he can't correct it himself. This is not the same as "spoonfeeding" or just telling him what the answer is. It's helping him to learn HOW to do it.

It will be of great benefit to your son if you can take the time to do this.

Just explaining the concept is clearly not working. He needs more help than that.

Yes, in an ideal world this would be the teacher's job. But she has 30 kids to teach and the logistics of one-to-one attention of this quality are just impossible.

I agree that the homework ladder is a stupid idea, though. There are some kids whose parents never help them at all. The poor things are at enough of a disadvantage without being put on a chart of shame as well.

I don’t understand why you wouldn’t help them if you can see the answer is wrong, that’s a missed opportunity of learning surely? Teaching isn’t just down to teachers, it starts at home.

With maths I'll show her how to do the sum and we'll work through the problems together. I'll give instruction where needed and write out more to practise if needed.

For writing I'll point to a sentence that needs a capital or comma etc.

Spellings I'll point out and see if she can correct, otherwise tell her.

To me homework is to reinforce learning not show a teacher they can't do it. Teachers will pick that up in class.

I simply don't think in a class of 30 the teacher has time to explain everything to everyone. My dc have twice weekly private lessons and their father and I check their homework. If there is an oversight ot bad handwriting I tell them it needs redoing. If it's completely wrong we explain it to them or find online resources that explain it.

I think it's important to teach them to take ownership of their learning and be an independent learner and problem solver. Poor teachers just don't have the time to help everyone.

I don't sit there answering their homework for them, but I check, teach abd research answers with them so that when they are older they know how to review their work and look up informations.

Informations oh dear

I personally think a homework ladder is ridiculous! Learning isn't a competition - everyone has to go at their own pace. And this is the problem with homework - the DC who don't have parents who help lose out. At my DD's school homework is optional. It is a mixture of things to do with parents (Let's talk - gives ideas of things to talk about regarding the current topic or book they're reading in class) and things the DC can do independantly (Bug Club, TT Rockstars) as well as Art ideas, researching a topic or making up sentences using spelling words. There's no right or wrong to it. I find it very inclusive. Once a fortnight the DC can bring in anything/send to teacher on Google classroom something they are proud of to show the class. I know for the DC who don't have anyone to help with homework the teacher will support them to complete something from the homework at school now and again so they have something to show off too.

I'd help my child to understand and arrive at the right answer. I feel that as a parent, it is my responsibility to support them with that.

How old is he?
I never really got homework (apart from spellings and the occasional project) until I was in high school and could do it myself. My parents never got involved, never checked I had done it all etc. That's how I learned to be fully responsible for my own workload. I'm 30 so hardly went to school on the olden days.

I think you're doing the right thing. About 6 years ago I worked with someone who would often be up until early hours helping her uni student son with his assignments!!! I couldn't believe it! She was so happy when "they" got good grades etc... He always asked last minute and she always did it. What kind of employee would he have been when he got his first job 😬

This thread is an eye opener! My kids are only primary age so I suppose I help them, mainly to show them that I am interested in what they are up to but I certainly do not intend to helicopter over them their whole school career, that's mad, surely? What about resilience, independence, even risk-reward trade-offs? My parents were as supportive as they come when it came to my aspirations, but they never helped me with my homework.