Do schools not distinguish between homework done independently and that ‘done’ by parents?

[NellyJames]

Just tried to post this in education but it doesn’t seem to want to post:
DS has been upset as they have a HW ladder where they sit on certain rungs depending upon how the do in their homework. He’s middling and hasn’t really been moving. This is fine by me as it reflects where he is/should be I guess. However, he’s getting upset as he keeps asking me to help (answers not explaining concept) and says everyone else’s mum helps. I’ve been telling him this isn’t true but talking to some other mums they’ve confirmed they always help otherwise their child would get 4/5/6 questions wrong each week. I often see DS getting the wrong answer but I never correct him. The most I’ll do is encourage him to check them. Anyway, DS tells me these friends are up in the ‘clouds’ which is apparently the top rungs of the ladder. Now I feel bad but I still don’t want to help as surely his teacher needs to see which ones he doesn’t understand so she can target those with him? I emailed to ask earlier this week and she’s just emailed back confirming the ladder is used as motivation. Today one of his friends got the gold award for consistently ‘excellent standard of homework!’ hmm I don’t know if I’m being unreasonable.

@MeadowHay, that’s a very good point, thank you.

There are going to be a lot of kids at uni who havent a bloody clue how to do their homework without a parents 'helping' them. Those kids at the top of the ladder are going to come a cropper at some point.

I help routinely. I check if they understand and they do the work. I go through the work, point out any that are incorrect; we go over the method until they understand, they do it again underneath until it's the correct answer.

When I didn't do this, the teacher thought they were fine (acording to reports and parents evening), but they were failing to understand fundamental things. In my family were a primary teacher, english lecturer and an engineer - I benefited massively from their input. Not because I got the right answer, but because I now understood HOW to get the right answer. My DC benefit in the same manner.

Nelly
I didn't have to in put anything into dd 1pm course we did all the back ground work with her, musuems, provided tons of books etc... Never ever pushed her or nagged her, didn't need too.

Age 7, we had a massive wake up call with dc, still very bright but learns in a totally different way.

You need to key into his learning style, and work out why he's not picking things up. Our school have been doing work on pre fixes for instance.

So if we had pre fix re... I wouldn't do her work for her I would explain and go over prefixes... Basically teach it again until she got it.

Same with tables... Help to show her the patterns, teach her how to learn. I wouldn't write in the answer but I also wouldn't leave her to try it again.

At 7 children are still learning how.. To learn.. Surprisingly many dc actually don't get taught this specifically.

In year 3 the way they learn changes.

Which is why I'm flummoxed as to what answers parents are giving their children?

If they have got the gist, but don't understand one, why wouldn't at this basic level it just be explained?

This is my confusion here.

Op unless it's a private school... I don't 🤔 you can leave their learning in the hands of the school at all. After all no one cares more about him and his learning than his parents

Meadow I think the ladder is awful and it's the ladder that needs to go!!

That would have crushed my dd2 she's already aware she's on lower book bands and doesn't get as good grades as xyz.

She's coming on fast however, but to have her on a ladder would have been awful.

Now pain no tartine, that's what I have was trying to say but in a far more clumsy way.

Ds got detention at primary school for his summer art homework not being as good as the others - I had to have a chat with the teacher, who seemed surprised to learn that Ds had spent the required time but just wasn’t very talented at art - really knocked his confidence too!

The teacher will really not be using homework to assess children. Children have different levels of parental engagement at home.
It is an opportunity to work through mistakes and to give them some individual time which is rare in a classroom situation. I used to let mine work independently then I would go through mistakes with them and note the questions I had assisted with.
It is far too early to be thinking about independent study skills. That’s the journey of high school and beyond. You are missing a learning opportunity.

@ProtectedPeas That's disgraceful poor kid.

A different perspective: The Homework Ladder has helped you as the parent - not involved in the day to day of the school environment - to realise that the child needs additional support from home.

From experience, the time invested in these early years to give them the confidence they need, will reap rewards in the years to come.

You are on the right track as you won't be spoon feeding them, but absolutely, help them until they get the right answer, so they can experience the buzz of working towards a solution and getting to the correct answer in the end.

Perhaps that's the secret intention to get parents to engage more

It's the ladder that needs to go!
I've never heard of kids being 'rated' based on homework. At most my kids get some 'house points' for special projects for instance and I do know quite a lot of parents get very involved in those projects. I don't get involved in my kids homework unless they need my help. My parents have never got involved with my homework unless I needed help and I've achieved very well academically. So far my method seems to work and all my kids are doing v well at school. I wouldn't be impressed if the teacher relied on homework to rate/rank kids (unless we're talking high school kids where independent work is the norm), I'd expect such ladder to be based on work done at school really.

Mainly my year 8 child does homework without my involvement. The other day they were struggling and asked for my help. It was getting late and had to be in the next day. So I helped my child dig themselves out of a situation that was worrying them.

We looked things up together and discussed what to include. I gave advice on what I thought were the relevant things. And I did point out all the spelling etc.

Teacher's feedback was - very well researched and great vocabulary.

So maybe I need to help less next time! But my child was grateful not to have flunked their homework... and maybe some research/ writing techniques will have sunk in...

DH normally does the kids' homework with them. The other week he tried several times to get a concept across to DD that she clearly wasn't getting, and in the end I had to intervene and said that he had to let her get it wrong - because otherwise how would the teacher know that she hasn't grasped what's been taught?

I’m astonished by the majority of these responses. We have been explicitly told not to help our children with homework (year 5) as the teacher needs to know how they are getting on. They also need to learn how to manage their own workload, cope with making mistakes, and feel like they have some autonomy over their work.

I don't do any of the work, but I am there to talk it through with.

There are going to be a lot of kids at uni who havent a bloody clue how to do their homework without a parents 'helping' them. Those kids at the top of the ladder are going to come a cropper at some point.

Pretty much this. They should learn to check their own work. If I had concerns my primary children didn't understand the principle involved, I'd explain it to them, but not go through the specific questions.

Its always been the same realistically parents are competitive and like there children to do well we had term homework "make a castle" the castles came in over a week day one and two ok but by day three they upped the anti paper mache castles came in now sitting in rock Island's by Friday they had real moss and sea glass attached no way could a bunch of 7/8 year old do them especially the cake one which arrived Friday "all his own work" but mom runs a cake making business and it was flawless he won obviously but what surprised me was the amount of children who liked my sons kit built castle made from a brick kit bought off the market the parents sniffed at it because it wasn't in the spirit of the homework but the kids liked it

If I had concerns my primary children didn't understand the principle involved, I'd explain it to them, but not go through the specific questions.

literally what parents helping means.

No one is pushing for doing the work yourself and hiding the gap in your kids knowledge.

It's bonkers to jump from helping out a 7 or 8 years old to a useless uni student. There are years of secondary school ahead to prepare them for uni!

@NellyJames

I think maybe DS needs a different approach. My DD is in Y11 at one of the highest performing grammar schools in the country. It is extremely selective. She desperately wanted to go there but I refused to get a tutor as I felt she should only go if she could pass the test without any help. She did pass but afterwards I realised from conversations with other parents that virtually all her new classmates had been tutored from early on. I was shocked but she has coped extremely well with the pressure and intensity of the work whereas some other girls haven’t. I want to ensure that DS reaching his own potential. He’s not fiercely academic like his older sister and I was worried about spoon feeding him. But from reading all this, I think he does need mire input from me.

I had to get a tutor for my eldest son for GCSE Maths . It wasn't that he couldn't do it as such - he thought he couldn't do it and he needed the tutor to - yes improve his skills but moreso to boost his confidence that he could do it. He was very able in all other subjects and didn't like the fact that he didn't grasp it as easily as the rest .

I think it's a bit shitty to see that he's got an answer wrong, and not tell him.

You don't have to tell him the answer, but my god, at least give the lad a chance and tell him he's got it wrong, so he can have a look over it again. And then if it's still wrong, explain how. The way it's not cheating, as you've not done the homework, and he knows fully why that's the answer and how he eventually got to it.

I'd help until they got it right. By themselves. Like a teacher would.

Your mission is, ideally, to send them having mastered whatever it is they were supposed to be learning. Otherwise you're taking a chance that the class won't have moved on already/other less able children require one-to-one and there isn't enough to go around.

Why aren't you taking the time to make sure he understands well enough to get it right? He sounds very small, wanting to be 'up in the clouds'.

I think not providing a tutor putting your own child as a huge disadvantage which could impact their entire schooling is shitty too. You are lucky they passed, but it shouldn't have been despite you.

@LindaEllen Homework is meant to be done independently. The child has to get used to checking their own work. Sometimes they'll get the answer wrong they have to get used to that. If I noticed that there was a serious lack of understanding I might intervene and try and explain the idea but not specifically help with the questions.

I help my ds to get the correct answers but write little notes so the teacher knows where I have helped and where he needed support.

I don't see it as 'doing the teacher's job', education is a partnership between school and home. A teacher doesn't have the chance to sit 1:1 with every child in the class so working together at home is vital in helping your child progress.

She desperately wanted to go there but I refused to get a tutor as I felt she should only go if she could pass the test without any help.

I've lost all sympathy for you. What are you running, a family or a boot camp. No interest in engaging with such a parent.