Do schools not distinguish between homework done independently and that ‘done’ by parents?

[NellyJames]

Just tried to post this in education but it doesn’t seem to want to post:
DS has been upset as they have a HW ladder where they sit on certain rungs depending upon how the do in their homework. He’s middling and hasn’t really been moving. This is fine by me as it reflects where he is/should be I guess. However, he’s getting upset as he keeps asking me to help (answers not explaining concept) and says everyone else’s mum helps. I’ve been telling him this isn’t true but talking to some other mums they’ve confirmed they always help otherwise their child would get 4/5/6 questions wrong each week. I often see DS getting the wrong answer but I never correct him. The most I’ll do is encourage him to check them. Anyway, DS tells me these friends are up in the ‘clouds’ which is apparently the top rungs of the ladder. Now I feel bad but I still don’t want to help as surely his teacher needs to see which ones he doesn’t understand so she can target those with him? I emailed to ask earlier this week and she’s just emailed back confirming the ladder is used as motivation. Today one of his friends got the gold award for consistently ‘excellent standard of homework!’ hmm I don’t know if I’m being unreasonable.

I agree with you in principle but for the wrong answers I would just point them out and work through it to understand why dc isn't getting the concept. I think the Hw ladder is a horrible idea- there are so many reasons why a child might not complete/get all the correct answers that isnt any fault of their own.

Maybe ask the teacher about this issue and ask what they'd prefer you to do? It is worth flagging up that your DS is becoming demoralised by it. But also that he's not willing to accept constructive help, only being handed the answers.

I’m 🙈 at the homework ladder. My daughter would be in the clouds, the whole time, be faintly embarrassed by it - and a bit annoyed that all the kids say she’s “lucky” as it’s “easy” for her. My son, meanwhile, would languish at the bottom and not give a fuck. My niece would also be at the bottom - and revel in it, whilst her sister would be just below middle and check it anxiously each week, feeling a total failure.

So everyone who helps, do you write a note each time to say you’ve helped? Otherwise how can the teacher distinguish between the children who got them all correct by themselves and your child who needed a bit of help?

I've always found homework at primary level a nonsense as it's blindingly obvious the parents do it for, or with, their kids. Especially art projects.

In my view they should only set reading and tables for primary school kids.

Also agree the homework ladder sounds a terrible idea!

@NellyJames

So everyone who helps, do you write a note each time to say you’ve helped? Otherwise how can the teacher distinguish between the children who got them all correct by themselves and your child who needed a bit of help?

I very much doubt it!

Why wouldn't you help?

My dd is doing A-level maths and sometimes needs help. I'll say something like "You've made a mistake between the second and third lines. Can you find it?" I think that if she can find the mistake it still counts as her doing the homework (even if she loses a mark if it were a test situation)

Why not explain the underlying concept, illustrate how it works with invented questions, then let him tackle the home-work question independently? This way, you're not 'leading' him to the answer, you're assisting his understanding so that he can do the work himself.

@longestlurkerever, DS is 7yrs so Y3.

All a HW page with wrong answers shows the teacher is that some parent doesn't check their child's paper.
In-class quizzes tell the teacher whether they have the concept corrector not.
If the HW is graded, help your son.

Some kids 1) get no help, some 2) get guidance (as you do, OP), 3) some kids have a parent sit, guide and support them as they work, 4) some lead them and don't allow their child to struggle a little (zone of proximal development).

I would say something between 2 & 3 is best. That is about where a tutor would be.

It's a short term win, doing it for them. However, UK education is currently in a stage of theory called 'the sage on the stage'. Kids don't learn for themselves. They're given the information and then practise applying it. This goes against rest of the rest of the western world, which tries to teach students to be independent learners.

Maybe just step up your help a little more. But defo don't do the work for him! It's pointless.

Basically, if you're concerned your kid really doesn't get a certain concept, then write the teacher a note.

It's not rocket science.

I always found a gentle ‘I think you should look at that answer again ‘ goes a long way .... if nothing else it will teach him to check his work

I always go through HW with mine and we rework the incorrect ones. I don’t tell them the answer though but no, they don’t usually take incorrect homework back in. I don’t think there is anything wrong with doing that though

@cologne4711, I completely agree. I think at 7yrs old, reading and times tables should be enough.

Well, as a teacher, I'd prefer you didn't help. By all means, provide a quiet comfortable place to work, materials, resources like dictionaries or computers, help with organisation, deadlines, prioritising...but try not to actually do or help with the work (unless they've been asked e.g. to interview a family member or something). I want to mark mark students' work, not their parents' (and yes I can tell who did it).

I think the homework ladder is a poor idea because as this thread shows, some of this is out of students' control.

So everyone who helps, do you write a note each time to say you’ve helped

No. Because if I've helped them find the method and they are now able to solve the problem independently, why would I need to inform the teacher of that? It doesn't really matter how they learnt it, what matters is that they understand. Education isn't just down to the teachers. It starts at home.

@nellyjames - between my two then. I suppose you could try a halfway house about pointing out the ones that need a closer look - I think that's what I do - have never really thought about it that much before, though much of our homework is not even marked except the online maths stuff which is automatically marked - I tend to think of it like practice. The ladder idea seems so wrong!

I would look over it and point out incorrect answers let him find the correct answer rather than send him in with it incorrect.

Well, as a teacher, I'd prefer you didn't help

Bizarre. I'd prefer my children understand the problem, and if they don't because they haven't understood it from their teacher, then I wouldn't be waiting in the hope that the teacher finds the time to go over it again. Because that, in my experience, doesn't happen, and that's when children slip behind.

YABU to think teachers will have time to go back over things not understood in lessons or on homework. Haven't you figured out that homework is just a way of connecting the home with what they're learning at school. In all my years of teaching, I rarely used homework as a way of assessing a child's learning. Those assessments are done in the classroom. Homework is an easy to way to keep parents abreast of what is going on in the classroom, and how their child is (or isn't) progressing.
A visual chart of homework "achievement" on display in the classroom strikes me as odd, though. Some parents absolutely refuse to have their child do homework. It doesn't seem fair to punish children for that.

@GeorgiaGirl52, but I do check it. I don’t correct him but I’ll often suggest he checks certain questions. Sometimes he changes them, sometimes he doesn’t. If he doesn’t then I let them go back like that. I thought that was the point; to show the teacher what he could do. I’m not sure how it shows a parent doesn’t bother to check?

Nelly - I think you are probably over thinking it a bit, to be honest.

I’m not primary trained but say I set a class a piece of homework - to write a story and I get a few that are a paragraph with numerous misspellings. I might correct them by circling them (although we are sometimes discouraged from correcting every single one) but I won’t have the time to go through each misspelling with each child. That’s where parental input can really help.

It shouldn’t be a task that breaks down relationships between you and DS or take half the evening but if he is set maths equations to do and gets them wrong, they won’t magically be taught the next day. Teachers do tend to have a ‘some kids are better at this than others’ sort of approach.

You are not doing anything wrong by helping your son with his homework.

Guidance is fine as the child would be guided by teacher and TA. I’m a TA and it’s pretty obvious when parents help too much as we see what children do in chool day in, day out.