Do schools not distinguish between homework done independently and that ‘done’ by parents?

[NellyJames]

Just tried to post this in education but it doesn’t seem to want to post:
DS has been upset as they have a HW ladder where they sit on certain rungs depending upon how the do in their homework. He’s middling and hasn’t really been moving. This is fine by me as it reflects where he is/should be I guess. However, he’s getting upset as he keeps asking me to help (answers not explaining concept) and says everyone else’s mum helps. I’ve been telling him this isn’t true but talking to some other mums they’ve confirmed they always help otherwise their child would get 4/5/6 questions wrong each week. I often see DS getting the wrong answer but I never correct him. The most I’ll do is encourage him to check them. Anyway, DS tells me these friends are up in the ‘clouds’ which is apparently the top rungs of the ladder. Now I feel bad but I still don’t want to help as surely his teacher needs to see which ones he doesn’t understand so she can target those with him? I emailed to ask earlier this week and she’s just emailed back confirming the ladder is used as motivation. Today one of his friends got the gold award for consistently ‘excellent standard of homework!’ hmm I don’t know if I’m being unreasonable.

Primary school homework tends to be going over what children have learnt in the classroom to reinforce it before moving on to the next thing. The next thing is usually much easier to understand if you can do the foundations. The teacher won’t have time to go back over the same thing again if the child has got the homework wrong.

I’d also say the motivational chart isn’t working if your son isn’t moving up and is always getting homework wrong.

Helping your child figure out the right answer is supporting your child with their learning.

To make you feel better OP I never help my DC with homework at primary school. Come the pandemic guess which children were able to work independently at home producing good quality work?

I'm guessing yours were. But what I'm wondering is how you would know about the quality of work produced by the children whose parents do help them with their homework. In my experience as a teacher, the children with parents who are able and willing to help them with their school work tend to be pretty successful at school.

Exactly and to foster self-discipline.

the child is 7 😂

Let's be honest, the various achievements levels in Primary School, even Y3, will be long forgotten and irrelevant by the time they reach A level and further education.

Wait until they become teenagers and everything start changing.

It depends. If she's getting it wrong because she doesn't understand the concept then I teach her again, use a different method,do examples together and then redo the homework. She always gets it so there's no point on the teacher knowing she struggled,or going over something she now understands.

If the mistake is because of rushing or the correct concept/method and just wrong "maths"(3*2=9 for example) then I just tell her to check and leave it.

I give her a lot more support in English because a lot of the homework rivals classwork(writing a full story,a persuasive text etc) which would have a fairly detailed input and planning.

@JustSay

My parents hardly ever helped me with homework abd I felt really alone. The teachers were run ragged and impatient, I just stopped asking for help and fell behind.

I think you are being too rigid with we must show the teacher... teachers notice from class what the children know and dont know and teachers realise that children got help or extra teaching at home. I just dont know why you would leave your kiddo struggle like that. It just made me feel stupid in class and a burden to teacher abd my parents. It's neglectful not to help with homework when you are in primary school, in my opinion.

I agree. We also have shockingly high levels of functionally illiterate children leaving school. This is usually due to a parent who is unable to help and repeating generations, so the prospect of being able to help but not doing so just seems cruel to me.

MsIrrational neatly summed it up in one sentence.

I would help, yes, working with them and retracting the concept until it’s understood.

However — if you do change your approach, let the teacher know, as they may think your child has come on leaps and bounds prematurely and change their in class support as a result.

Thanks everyone, even those who were critical of my parenting.
I’m going to email again saying I’ve recently realised that DS was the only one not being helped with answers and that this is affecting his self esteem. We’ll go through correcting underneath his original incorrect answer so he is learning from me but his teacher can clearly see he’s had help.

@sergeilavrov

I would help, yes, working with them and retracting the concept until it’s understood.

However — if you do change your approach, let the teacher know, as they may think your child has come on leaps and bounds prematurely and change their in class support as a result.

If the OP’s approach changes then their child probably will come on leaps and bounds.

@NellyJames

Thanks everyone, even those who were critical of my parenting. I’m going to email again saying I’ve recently realised that DS was the only one not being helped with answers and that this is affecting his self esteem. We’ll go through correcting underneath his original incorrect answer so he is learning from me but his teacher can clearly see he’s had help.

Perfect. That’s really what the teacher wants to see.

Kaliorophic that's what it was going to say

Op how many dc are in the class? There usually is absolutely no time to go through each child's work say Tim, didn't understand the re prefix let's do it.

Tim will simply get left behind.

Op unless your dc is the type to get things straight away... And understand them, you do need to help much more.

Home work at this age is more about grammar and maths. It's so much more important for him to get it than be left behind. What's his general reading like, learning etc?

I've had one dc who I can count on one hand how much I've had to help her or been asked to help her and she's in secondary. My other dc would bottom of the class if I didn't help her and try teach her along the class.
I have to help her with her hw, because it's not said in a way she can understand.
She needs to learn things in different ways but I don't do it for her and she's extremely bright.

I'm wondering what exactly this hw is at such a tender age??

What could you do for him anyway?

But... Be warned... Parents have to step in, you cannot expect one teacher to bring on your child's learning and potential, it's nigh on impossible unless your in small classes... Parents have to monitor and step in depending on their dc and support.

I’m starting to withdraw from my Year 4’s homework.

For her, I let her get on with it, if she’s struggling and asks for help then I’ll work through the work with her.

So I usually help with maths, as those are the questions that are easier to teach.

Most of her other homework is research based so I help her find appropriate webpages etc and then let her get on with it.

I’d only check spellings etc if she asked me to check.

For my younger children I teach them as needed. Remind them about underlining titles etc. That will lessen as they go through junior school.

OP, if you're explaining the concepts to him and he's still getting the answers wrong then you obviously haven't explained it well enough for him to understand, or it is something he's not real to do yet.

I think you should help him arrive at the right answers- in school we use a different colour to make corrections and would always work through the questions with a child who was struggling and show them how to get to the answer. You could then write a note next to the questions to let the teacher know which ones you helped with so she can see what he found difficult.

I don't help my kids reach their answers. I encourage them to take their time, reflect and check their answers. If they don't understand things, their teacher needs to know that. They have small classes so the staff do have time to re-explain/ check understanding etc..

Also, I once helped with maths homework and got it wrong, which probably underlies my opinion on this a bit...

I wouldn’t let him hand in answers that were wrong at age 7, no.
I’d show him my workings with the correct answer for one of the questions and then get him to have another go. Then repeat until all his answers were right.

Also agree with those saying the homework ladder is shit. What about the children whose parents do nothing with them?! Always at the bottom. How motivating.

I helped in primary school only if needed. But definitely if so. So, anything they could do independently, on you crack. Anything they needed help with, i saw this as an opportunity for 121 help in an area that needed it. With a little *help given by mum noted next to the homework.
In primary, one teacher has 30 pupils with massive (amd ive seen it, it's massive) variations in ability. There's no way she can give 121 help often. But I can.
Now in secondary; I don't get involved at all. Now it's time to learn independent learning.

@Welcometonowhere

I don’t really understand why you wouldn’t help your child, tbh.

There is a difference between helping them (showing them the answer is wrong and re-explaining the concept) then doing the work for them. Op is helping but she isn't doing it for him

I always think of homework as a way of consolidating work already learnt about in the classroom. It also provides an opportunity for parents to be involved. It's not necessarily a marker as to who can and who can't....... The teacher probably will use classwork to see who is struggling, not necessarily hw. So if advise that if you can help - then please do especially if your child is keen to do better

[quote NellyJames]@LolaSmiles, but by leaving it for the teacher then she can see where he needs extra input, surely? How can she know what questions he struggled with if I’ve led him clearly to the answer?[/quote]
How do you learn? You learn and improve by practice - doing things over and over . If he is struggling with something then practise it with him with more examples extra study books . You seem to expect your child to learn everything at school ?

Sounds like you have reasons for not helping and I'm inclined to agree that it is an exercising in seeing what they can remember and if every gap is filled the teacher won't be able to see where they're coming from. The danger is discouragement I suppose.

Definitely a bit of guidance isn't a bad thing although tbh after a certain point the maths is beyond me (and I'm not talking about secondary either)!

What I think IS cheeky is when its a craft project and QUITE CLEARLY the adult has done it and so the wonky plastic creation actually made by a 5 year old gets outshone by something baked in fimo and/or with three different patterns done on a sewing machine.

You can tell the guilty parties when you do a stay and play at the school (not that they are at the moment) some parents don't let the child get hold of the craft materials and they're sitting passively whilst their parent does it all. But

I think homework for primary school children is wrong but that’s another story.

I’m with you let them do it themselves and if they get it wrong they get it wrong.

My children so their homework while I’m making dinner and they ask for my help every now and again and I help without telling them the answer.

I think parents are maybe over assuming. The norm in primary seems to be that some parents fall over themselves so that a child's project on the Romans submits a fully working model - it's obvious that the child didn't do this but is soul destroying for kid that did their own thing.

At secondary you can't intervene in the same way. Macbeth, plant morphology, hexidecimal, balancing equations, hooke's law, quadratic equations etc. I don't know the details of the Triple entente - nations, dates etc.

Parents can provide useful learning techniques and provide material conditions to support learning but can't teach content.

This starts with parents being expected to deliver basic numeracy and literacy. It just seems that the most important things are deferred to parents. Eg. Times tables are super important so defer to parents.

Or maybe they are not that important. DS2 (14) has an A* maths GCSE but doesn't know his times tables. I rote learned times tables but I can't even begin to comprehend the pure maths he is doing.

You seem to expect your child to learn everything at school ?

I think that's the issue with some of the posters. If your children are in private or smaller school, small class with a lot of support, then fair enough.

If your children are in an average 30 (sometimes 31) state school with barely a TA to assist the teacher, then it's massively BU not to get involved. Letting wrong answers expecting the teacher to start over is not realistic.

You wouldn't let your 6, 7 or 8 years old going back to class without practicing their spelling and timetables until they have got it right, would you? It's the same thing.

But my dad would spend about an hour explaining maths to me.

During lockdown DS (Y2) got some maths work on money where the question was 'How many ways can you make up 78p?' A quick look at the answer sheet made it obvious the teacher wanted the child to come up with any suitable answer. DH (3 degrees in maths and physics from ancient universities and a software engineer) stayed up late that night writing a programme to count all the possible combinations. This may of course explain my lackadaisical approach to homework, my children have not fallen far from the tree and I feel our job as (highly educated with a tendency to work obsessively) parents is to make sure the DC learn to step back and not put too much pressure on themselves. It is a luxury.

DD1 has finally started to get it. After working very hard during lockdown and stressing herself out weekly she got back to school and realised she had worked far harder than anyone else and lots of DC had done no work and watched Netfix for 6 months ('not those in top stream though Mum'. I did point out there was probably a causal relationship there).

Apart from the ones who weren't able to grasp the concepts, and had no one to support them with their learning. No teachers, and no parents either. Pretty shit that.

Think I made it pretty clear in my post my DC are smart and motivated and have all the parental support they need. The OP is not ignoring her DC, she is just choosing to intervene less than others, we all know parents who 'help' by doing the work themselves, she is not doing that at all. She cares and is doing enough to teach her DC the importance of work which is what really matters. She is not a neglectful parent.