What would you do? Teachers advise 🙏 please

[Whatwouldyoydo]

My 16 yr old dd has just called me in tears.
Currently in 6th form and has been having issues with a male teacher, quite young tries to be funny but often misses the mark.
Several time he’s made wtf comments etc
Today he announced loudly that ‘ Claire wears short skirts to attract the boys” and when no one responded as they were quite shocked he said it again louder.
Dd was so upset she left the room for the toilet and her friend brought her the bag as class was ending.
Dd feels shamed. Fwiw dd dresses totally appropriately. (Dds name is not really Claire)

Dd said she’s complained to another teacher at school about it. Apparently the teacher in question was very anxious when dd didn’t return to class and probably realised he’s overstepped and was asking the girls to txt dd.
What would you do? Leave it for dd to manage the follow up or step up and intervene.

@notdaddycool

I agree.

Despite it all, I worry. I worry for his wife, his child their family.
Not more than I will do the right thing... but it is not to be taken lightly to blow up people’s life’s.
I’m not a fan of cancel culture. We’re not sensitive people in our home. We respect teachers as the unsung backbone of our communities.

It’s just shit.

@Meatshake

Not quite on topic and definitely not the point but you must be so proud of how your daughter is handling herself. Good job, mum 👍

Thank you

I agree, you should be proud dd is doing so well with her behaviour.

It wasn't just a slip of the tongue on his part, it was a sustained commentary getting worse.

He should have reported himself immediately. You did the only thing you could & should have. Hope dd finds support in school & I'm sorry this happened to her

@Whatwouldyoydo you sound like a very switched on and decent person. I think you're right in what you say, it could just be a highly inappropriate comment. Though at 35 and with experience behind him, and in this day and age (rather than the 80s/90s) he should really know better. Everyone knows these kinds of comments get you in hot water. I'm not saying he should be sacked, but at the very least he needs a written warning.

[quote Whatwouldyoydo]@lyralalala
Yes, the female that talked to dd this morning is the member of the student support team that dd talked to yesterday. I just couldn’t remember her job title when I posted. I’ve had wine[/quote]
That's a major worry.

The person that students are likely to turn to the most completely disregards safeguarding protocol and doesn't report the actions of a fellow staff member?

I worked in schools for years and I'm not a fan of the "all guns blazing approach" taken by a lot of people. However, please make sure you document this, in writing, as an addition to your complaint.

Do not report anything to this school by telephone. Do it all in writing, and follow up any communication in writing too. It's a place where corners are cut and you should assume that applies to senior staff until you see otherwise.

You both sound like you’ve handled this perfectly, I hope there are some serious repercussions for him cos that is seriously creepy. Your poor dd, I can imagine how awkward she must have felt, she’s done everything right. I also can’t believe the support worker thought it was a good idea to have her go and see the teacher so he could apologise! Eugh imagine what he would have said to her alone in the classroom!

Hats off to your daughter OP.
Both in leaving the room when the moron made his creepy comments, and for articulating how inappropriate it would be to visit said moron alone for an apology.
You're doing a fab job.

I agree with what's been said above. Well done to both of you. Have no concern about what happens to the teacher - he could have easily self reported if it was a moment of foolishness. It makes me wonder what else he's done and you've done others a great favour. There's probably girls too shy/unsupported to do anything. You've been their voice too.

@Whatwouldyoydo

Firstly you have made a complaint to the head teacher. That complaint needs to be detailed and in an email. Allow them time to investigate it on the basis that you would like a meeting (either in person or on zoom etc) to discuss. You need to be clear that you expect the disciplinary process to be invoked given the sexual connotation of his comments to her.

What you need to watch for is the HT trying to get away without following the process by "having a chat" or giving him "advice". The teaching profession is absolutely full of weak leaders who have reached senior positions and pontificate about appropriate conduct but are scared or incompetent to deal with those such as this teacher.

Behaviour such as this is often a pre-cursor to deepening unacceptable conduct between teachers and students which will escalate. Believe you me, he will be known for behaving like this and his colleagues will all know about it with him having a reputation, but never do anything.

I know as I'm a chair of governors and had to deal with a complaint about a previous HT at our school who tried to get away with dealing with a teacher with totally inappropriate conduct towards a student and I was totally incredulous that the first steps were always seen as "informal advice". My question was "so how fucking far does the offender have to go before you will do anything"

I hope you get it sorted but I'm afraid my view of the teaching profession, especially some leaders is poor

Another teacher here who is utterly appalled at the way the school is dealing with this.
The female teacher also needs pulling up. The comment of ‘sexist git’ is entirely minimising the seriousness of the behaviour and the fact that she tried to persuade your DD to go to him (submissive) and be alone with him so the can wriggle out) is scandalous please do escalate this. There is a designated Safeguarding Lead in every school and that is the person who needs to deal with this, not HoY etc and Student Services should have alerted that person immediately. It sounds like a very slack and negligent place all round.
His comment about the boy having no chance is also very demeaning -very unlike a boy would report this so please do pursue this as there were at least two victims here.

If you don't feel that the matter is being dealt with correctly, speak to the LADO, the Local Authority Designated Officer. They are responsible for overseeing safeguarding complaints against staff in schools and should be involved in any safeguarding action against a member of school staff. They should be on the council website.

That female teacher should also be in massive shit. This is beyond inappropriate, it's disgraceful. Agree, everything in writing. I had a colleague like this man, it did escalate, and yes as a pp suggests, he affected girls and boys. The fact some staff still believe he was hard done by when he was fired makes me feel sick.

The person that dd takled to as I understand it, was from student services/support and not a teacher.

But she should have had safeguarding training.

Absolutely basic to all training is that you must, must, must note and report anything that crosses the line. That means that after dd saw her yesterday, she should have gone straight to the safeguarding lead and reported it, in confidence. It is then up to the safeguarding lead to decide what to do.
When you follow up with the head, I do think that mentioning the lack of following of the safeguarding guidelines is essential. All staff should know what to do, and what constitutes a safeguarding concern.

Your dd is an impressive young lady and you shoudl be proud of how she has dealt with this.
It is, sadly, not just an off the cuff comment, which might be a mistake, but a deeply inappropriate and concerning conversation.

Thanks for your input everyone
I will definitely be mentioning the poor follow up.
Thank you for the positive comments regarding dd. I actually worry for her a lot. Dd is very switched on, regularly in situations I often ask for her advice and perspective as she sees things. I don’t know how else to explain it.
I know when we were younger this shit happened but I’m not even sure I realised half the time.
It is a really tough climate for young women,
Yesterday one of dd’s friends was assaulted by a ‘middle aged white man’. Grabbed at the train station and her bum squeezed as he rubbed himself against her.
Dd wasn’t there but heard about it later. The girl is not reporting as ‘what’s the point, none will give a shit’.

I’m a head and if one of my male teachers did this, he would be in sooooooo much trouble. I’d sack him. I absolutely wouldn’t tolerate it. End of.

@Whatwouldyoydo

So this morning in school the female member of staff that dd talked to yesterday prior to leaving school took her out of class for a chat.

The staff member told dd that she had spoken to David (the teacher- they use first names—-not real name), and that he was sorry and would dd go and see him as he would like to apologise.

Dd said “since we talked yesterday my parents have contacted the head so I don’t think that would be appropriate”.

The staff member looked shocked and agreed with dd and sent her back to class.
I think therefore it was wise to follow up with a complaint.

Thank god DD has more about her. Report the female too. What a dreadful way to handle it.

On a side note can we stop talking about the wife and child? They are innocent in this and we have no real right to comment on his family.

@Wheresmykimchi

Sorry wheresmy

The wife and child were only mentioned for context. My thoughts initially were that perhaps he was young inexperienced nqt.
When I realised he was older and married with a child it made me realise that his comments were not naivety as he is most definitely an experienced adult.

No offence meant or judgment

completely wrong that they asked her to go and see him alone-glad she had the strength to say no to that

hope it works out ok

and to dds friend that so sad she feels theres no point in reporting her assualt maybe you can offer some support or talko to her parents for her

My jaw is on the floor regarding student support suggesting she go and meet the teacher alone so he can apologise! It sounds like they haven't reported her disclosure either, which is also appalling! And the sexist git comment is exactly the type of thing all school staff are taught in safeguarding not to say, as it can be perceived as trying to influence the victim.

This school sounds like the kind of place where an inquiry (should there be a serious incident) would find that there was "a culture of inaction and turning a blind eye". How important is it your daughter stays here, rather than going to another school/ college? Unless they very rapidly (i.e. Monday morning) get their act together and show you their protocol for investigating such incidents and how they're following it, I'd be pulling her out. I'd even consider reporting them to Ofsted if that is possible. They take a very dim view of schools failing in their safeguarding duties. If I'm not mistaken, it automatically means the school will be rated inadequate.

@Whatwouldyoydo - you have brought up an amazing, strong young woman. Huge congratulations to you both. we need more like her in this world. That doesn't diminish the severity of what she is going through though. Sending you both strong positive thoughts and more
@Notthissticky - yes you are right on the OFSTED stance:

"Inadequate (4) The judgement on the overall effectiveness will be inadequate when any one of the key judgements is inadequate and/ or safeguarding is ineffective. " (Ofsted school inspection framework 2019). Inadequate is the lowest judgement OFSTED make. Teaching and learning can be outstanding but it's still a complete fail if safeguarding is weak. However; I'd be more worried about a school getting things right, everyone knowing exactly what should happen, who to report to and and when so that good practice established NOW rather than wait for any outside body to investigate.

He is creepy and I'd go straight to the head! Completely inappropriate and irrelevant to her education!

"Inadequate (4) The judgement on the overall effectiveness will be inadequate when any one of the key judgements is inadequate and/ or safeguarding is ineffective. " (Ofsted school inspection framework 2019).

Yes, we had a terrible terrible safeguarding fail which places is in special measures for 5 years

@Whatwouldyoydo

No offence meant or judgment

I didn't necessarily mean you. But the fact he has a wife and child is irrelevant here so the comments about feeling sorry for them etc are uncalled for.

But I think you're amazing as is your daughter.