To ask if you approve of the pay rise for nurses and doctors?

[Retiremental]

Blown away by some of the negativity on a ‘Health care professionals’ facebook group which seems to be populated by anything BUT HCP’s

Regarding the debate about all HCP - SLT/ OT/ dietitian etc

I have a young daughter who in 7 years has been through an unbelievable amount.
Her nurses and doctors on the wards have been amazing, the difference between ward nurses and say a physio etc is the amount of people that might be on their books they Can have a huge amount of patients under them at one time it’s not like that isn’t stressful. They also have so much importance in a person health care.
My daughter suffered heart failure at age 3 and needed a heart transplant which she thankfully got age 4. She did however suffer a stroke. The nurses on the ward helped her obviously in the there and now and her doctors and surgeons obviously saved her life however after that it took salt / physio / OT / mental health services etc for her to have the ability to be able to live her life to the full.
They have all been equally important in the aid of my daughters recovery.

I'm going to hide this thread. I've commented about how all areas of the nhs deserve a pay rise. I also agree teachers, police etc should. But not when the fundamentals such as staffing are being over looked.
Maybe I'm sensitive. I have bipolar and have really suffered this year with the lockdown, not seeing my children and working unsafely in an extremely pressurised a&e department where the people upstairs think of patient's as numbers and are more concerned with flow and targets than actual care.
I love my profession. But I'm struggling coming home in tears feeling I haven't given my patient's the best basic care because there's not enough staff and management just want us to move them asap and we get penalised for not doing so within 15 minutes. I also despair of the contempt a few posters have for us frontline workers. Maybe because we were so used to abuse (I myself have had a bone broken by an angry patient, receive verbal abuse. Been sat on etc.) but then we had the clapping and it felt that we were appreciated. I for one felt a massive boost from that at first. But now the public opinion feels even worse. Maybe from lack of understanding of how the system runs. But the anger is taken out on the wrong people. It's not the doctors nurses teachers etc that make the rules. We are told what to do and although we don't agree with things we can't afford to lose our already low paying jobs. We are honestly doing our best to provide excellent care, education and safety. It's the powers that be that are not allowing it to be as apparent

@RosesAndHellebores

For front line staff yes. For staff behind the lines where services have not been happening No:

Examples:

ADHD Unit closed and phone consultations only between 9 and 7. Patients told to trot off to pharmacy for no and weight.

CAMHS - no face to face or tier two/three assessments.

GP practice nurses - no routine bloods, check-ups etc.

Sheep's cataract op delayed because bar has been raised. Asked about private and consultant said "no problem, £5k, fit you in on Friday

Neighbour is a consultant orthopaedic surgeon (elective procedures). At home April, May, June, July, Aug. On full pay.

So with much regret and after much consideration, not across the board. Sorry.

It's not that easy to define though - it's not as simple as frontline v non-frontline. I am fairly low band admin staff. Not front line. But my role has been twice as stressful, trying to source PPE, having to stay late to fulfil nationally defined reports that if not submitted, mean we do not receive PPE, fielding calls from across our Trust with queries, all of whom want a reply fairly immediately. I have driven to work almost in tears with the thought of facing it all again. All for barely more than minimum wage. But not front line.

Is someone meant to go through every role putting a tick or a cross - deserving or not deserving?

Been spat sorry not sat. That's probably happened to though

@AlrightTreacle if you have no idea what you are bandying about regarding mental health disorders do yourself a favour and keep schtum

@FlorenceNightshade
You are full of shit.

Radiographers are pivotal in saving lives. That line/NG tube the ED consultant has put in, is it in the right place? Covid induced pneumonia - check progression, its the radiographer that does this. Emergency theatre - yes a radiographer is part of the team. The list is endless!

Who scans the critically ill patients? How are their lives going to be saved without imaging?

Who looks at these xrays and produces a report on it? Oooooh yes it’s the radiographers.

You’re embarrassing your profession. Go away.

@FlorenceNightshade if you really are a nurse your attitude is way off....

HCPs should be team players. As has been pointed out multiple times on the thread NONE of us can work without each other...

The modern NHS should encompass holistic care. Different professions are needed more prominently at different times.

When I teach students about this I always think that a stroke pathway illustrates the point really well;

Paramedic - ED nurse - Dr - radiographer - sonographer- radiologist - ward nurse - ward dr - neurologist - pharmacist - physio - OT - SALT - dietician - psychologist - discharge team - GP - district nurse.

Not one of these HCPs "saves the life" of the patient anymore than another. Because saving a life is not about just keeping someone alive it is so much more than that and each of these HCPs plays a part, if we can't see that we shouldn't be in any of our roles.

I would have accepted a pay cut to have had the opportunity to remain employed. I was made redundant in September.

So fed up of hearing how tough it is for NHS staff and how they deserve a pay increase. They have the most generous pension scheme in existence.

I think it is ridiculous that every time the government stuffs up those who are public sector end up paying for it whilst MPs award themselves payrises. If anything I think this pandemic has highlighted just how much we depend on keyworkers and the last thing that should be happening is a pay freeze. I think all keyworkers should get the pay increases they were meant to get. Pay freezes are reductions in real terms and public sector workers were the ones that payed for the last recession which they didn't cause!

Last one.

No where have I said I'm not a team player or that I'm a band 5 or even a student! You can assume what you like.

I have the utmost respect for all my colleagues but in life or death situations you need nurses and drs first. Any tests or other interventions are because a nurse acted first. They alerted the dr and put the cogs in motion. They also monitor all the ahps interventions once they're in place.

And nurses do all this on a lower wage than most other graduate professionals. That is the real issue here. Why is there a nursing shortage in this country? Because of low pay. Any pay rise for nurses will only push other ahps further up the scale ahead of them and I believe that is unjust.

Agree with me, disagree with me I really don't care. I've given my opinion and read most of yours. I've not resorted to name calling or belittling. Now I really need to sleep for work.....lives to save and all that

@DazzlePaintedBattlePants

I don’t think pay is the issue (the part of the NHS I work with effectively had a 6 month break over the COVID period). It’s more about conditions. Spend the money sorting out understaffing and underresourcing, before paying people more.

Good idea.

@Whattheactual20201 cross posted but you have illustrated my point exactly.

@FlorenceNightshade

Last one.

No where have I said I'm not a team player or that I'm a band 5 or even a student! You can assume what you like.

I have the utmost respect for all my colleagues but in life or death situations you need nurses and drs first. Any tests or other interventions are because a nurse acted first. They alerted the dr and put the cogs in motion. They also monitor all the ahps interventions once they're in place.

And nurses do all this on a lower wage than most other graduate professionals. That is the real issue here. Why is there a nursing shortage in this country? Because of low pay. Any pay rise for nurses will only push other ahps further up the scale ahead of them and I believe that is unjust.

Agree with me, disagree with me I really don't care. I've given my opinion and read most of yours. I've not resorted to name calling or belittling. Now I really need to sleep for work.....lives to save and all that

@FlorenceNightshade I can agree with some of that. As nurses yes we are more likely to spot a deteriorating patient. And yes as you probably know we are the ones helping the poor sleep deprived jr doctor's when they make a med error. But like I said a few pages ago. We are all one team. A very loose example I have is when covid first became public knowledge. We didn't have enough domestic staff to deep clean so myself and other nurses and healthcare assistants had to deep clean cubicles. That took me away from properly monitoring patients that could've (thankfully didn't) deteriorate. That's the point, every single member of the nhs mdt has an important role to play. As a newly qualified I made an ng error which a radiogropher seen when the patient went to xray to check. Without them that patient would've aspirated. I could not do my job without every specialty and discipline that the nhs offers. I can swallow screen patients but could easily harm them without dietetic input. Same with physio and ot

@FlorenceNightshade if you're only talking life and death situations do you not think the rest of us AHPs are not able to instigate all of those things too?

We can do basic life support and many of us are trained for advanced life support too. We can monitor vital signs and recognise a deteriorating patient too and can call a doctor if necessary just like a nurse.

In fact I have done it many many times over the years as I'm sure many AHPs have.

[quote Sewrainbow]@FlorenceNightshade if you're only talking life and death situations do you not think the rest of us AHPs are not able to instigate all of those things too?

We can do basic life support and many of us are trained for advanced life support too. We can monitor vital signs and recognise a deteriorating patient too and can call a doctor if necessary just like a nurse.

In fact I have done it many many times over the years as I'm sure many AHPs have.[/quote]
@Sewrainbow agreed. I worked that job for years before qualifying and it is so overlooked. I was always expected to do obs ecgs etc and felt frustrated if my concerns weren't taken seriously. Now qualified I respect and work alongside all the hcas. They spend the most time with patients and can tell better than anyone if something is wrong. Worth their weight in gold. But feel so under appreciated. Know I'm just one person but I completely understand the frustration.
A consultant I work with posted a blog recently about how she had to wear green scrubs (don't know if that's the same uniform for yourself) and documented how differently she was treated

@Everybodyfednobodydead you are a nurse I'd like to work with. We are all a team and recogising our different strengths and weaknesses is what matters.

I can recognise a patient deteriorating but would always defer to the nurse looking after that patient as they are more familiar with the patient's situation and what is normal for them.

@Sewrainbow I think because I was older doing my training and worked a long time as a hca it makes me appreciate the job more. I honestly believe instead of the first year of uni student nurses should have to work as an hca first. It's our bread and butter. I have more faith in what a hca tells me than a dr who's spent 5 minutes with a patient. Obviously I don't disregard a dr opinion mind. But I feel as well as carers that role is so disregarded and overlooked. In my opinion they are the backbone. It's a fantastic job and I hope you continue even though it's bloody hard work. Especially if you have nurses that feel they're "to posh to wash"

I'm not a HCA, but my comment still stands you sound a lovely nurse and I'm sure your HCAs appreciate your respect.

I can't speak for the other Allied Health Professionals but us radiographers are often trained in advanced life support due to contrast reactions and definitely basic life support. So whilst I don't pretend to have the skills a nurse would have I can deal with a deteriorating patient and think @FlorenceNightshade was naive to think that only doctors and nurses are essential in an emergency situation.

Shocking what you said about the dr in HCA scrubs but sadly not surprising given the hierarchical nature of some of the NHS. I really hope it flattens more in the future. Things are better than they used to be but one of the reasons I'm such a passionate advocate for interprofessional education is due to attitudes displayed on this thread. Covid has highlighted particularly the lack of understanding of roles other than nurses and doctors and its a shame that done people can't appreciate the skills of others. Some people will never change but I hope with every new generation of students ofall professions they appreciate a bit more of what their colleagues do.

And I absolutely agree with you about HCAs, very undervalued and absolutely essential. They deserve as much respect as any other member of staff.

I hope my radiographic aides and csws feel they're respected by me in the same way.

When my mum had a stroke, it was first and foremost (after the paramedics that got her to hospital) it was the consultants that saved her, they knew what was required.

However, as she was a former nurse, she would have also known, that a hospital is a like a watch, one cog missing and the whole show fails, from the cleaner to the Consultant all rely on each other.

I don't save lives nor do anything particularly worthy but earn double what a nurse does, we live in a fucked up world.

imho AHP 's can't earn enough, so i hope s we come out of CV, those that can. pay a little more tax to support the NHS and its staff.

honestly the nhs has let us down by stopping so many non covid stuff and a lot of the time having less work and dont say its not true i know its true through first hand experience.

@Sewrainbow

And I absolutely agree with you about HCAs, very undervalued and absolutely essential. They deserve as much respect as any other member of staff.

I hope my radiographic aides and csws feel they're respected by me in the same way.

I'm sure they do. You can't work with well with people without respect and kindness which I believe you show

@SecretSpAD

It should be done in conjunction with a raise for physios, OTs, SALT, dietitians etc. Drs and Nurses aren’t anymore deserving than other HCPs

I imagine it will be for all NHS staff. It's just that people don't tend to think that admin and management staff ever deserve it (they absolutely do) so sounds better political,y to say nurses.

I dont know if i picked you up wrong but Physios,OT,SALT aren't admin they are the professionals who advocate your corner liase with family,give you rehabilitation,provide you with equipment and update the social worker on what care they should request for you. Aswell as toilet patients,wash patients,feed patients and generally help in their care.

Also all NHS staff work 37.5 hours in theory per week. Some on 12 hours shift some 8 hour,nearly all doing unpaid overtime- I know this was a different poster but just to answer 2 posts in one

@yellowcatss

honestly the nhs has let us down by stopping so many non covid stuff and a lot of the time having less work and dont say its not true i know its true through first hand experience.

I can agree partly. Every trust is different. I'm in Wales for example and posted recently about rubbish gp care. However yesterday a different gp contacted me and was amazing . It's also different depending on speciality. I am an a&e nurse and our services have not changed and has become a lot harder to deal with. I'm lucky in the sense I haven't personally had to experience what you have. Years ago though when I was early 20s my mother's cancer care I felt was awful. I am not commenting to be all I'm a nurse and the nhs is fantastic because it isn't. But like I've previously said I feel peoples anger is being directed at the wrong people. However I understand. I blamed one specific doctor when my mother died but now I realise they were working based on numbers not people. But I am sorry you have experienced poor support and care

Should clarify not the doctor but management giving them grief over numbers and targets etc.