To ask if you approve of the pay rise for nurses and doctors?

[Retiremental]

Blown away by some of the negativity on a ‘Health care professionals’ facebook group which seems to be populated by anything BUT HCP’s

[quote FlorenceNightshade]@Retiremental long enough to know that this “pay rise” won’t be enough. They could double NHS wages across the bands (not some management though imo) and it wouldn’t be enough for what we deal with on a daily basis even without covid.

Why?[/quote]
Why?
Because you sound incredibly naive, ignorant and inexperienced. I’d hazard a guess that you’re a pre reg student at most. If not, I think you have some work to do on holistic care within a multi disciplinary framework

I would argue that good admin support does save lives - without someone chasing doctors to approve referrals, booking patients in for procedures, safety netting to ensure that nothing slips between the multitude of different systems that we like to employ in the NHS and generally keeping on top of waiting lists then there would be chaos. You'd be getting undiagnosed cancers left right and centre. Bear in mind we pay these people peanuts to do an incredibly important job so no, I don't begrudge them a pay rise. They showed up to work throughout the pandemic while half the medical team were carrying out telephone consultations from the comfort of their home. This is not a judgement - they appreciated that some routine activity needed to continue during the COVID response and did it in the safest possible way, just by way of comparison for those who think that all doctors and nurses were front and centre and all admin and managers were sat at home with their feet up.

And physios - their job is often literally to stimulate people to cough in their faces while forcing high levels of oxygen into their lungs. If this doesn't deserve recognition I don't know what does!

I'm an NHS manager and also went to work every day during lockdown. I would argue that although I wasn't up there on the front line my contribution wasn't completely insignificant. I think that if pay rises are limited in any way it should be by banding, so those lower on the pay-scale for whom it will make a bigger difference receive more. Often the most valuable members of teams are paid the least.

@Pomegranatespompom you’d guess wrong then.

It’s kinda of a moot point anyway this debating the value of one profession over another. Thanks to agenda for change any pay rise for nurses will have to given to anyone else on a band 5 too as pps have rightly pointed out.

There’s a post I read somewhere on FB I think a few years ago written by a junior doctor who says that everytime he “saved” a sick patient it was because a nurse called him to the bedside in the first place. Says it all I think

@FlorenceNightshade

How surprising that you haven't progressed to a band 6 role yet with that attitude.

Most allied health care professionals aren't on band 6, and I would argue that it is easier for a nurse to progress to a band 6 role compared to say an OT, as there are more job opportunities available. Unless you literally live in the middle of nowhere.

Perhaps you should look at retraining as a paramedic? You'd literally be saving lives all day, and would be a band 6 after 2 years.

I suggest you look @ mdt working and join a union if you’re not already.

I've managed a number of multi- disciplinary teams in my time and if any one of those people expressed the sense of professional superiority that @FlorenceNightshade is on here, I'd be pulling them up on their attitude problem.

I train HCPs now and anyone who expresses those opinions would be asked to reflect on why it's an inappropriate and unprofessional attitude.

It says for NHS staff, so won't be just doctors and nurses. I would advise people to wait for the small print before getting role excited about this, any 'pay rise' is unlikely to much, or at all, over inflation. This is on a background of many years of below inflation rises (ie cuts)

[quote FlorenceNightshade]@Ritasueandbobtoo9 not trying to be dismissive just truthful. When an ambulance pulls up outside the ED it’s not a dietician you want to meet you is it? Of course AHPs are needed but not in the same way drs and nurses are. That is just a fact that I’m sure any sensible person can recognise.[/quote]
So what about the AHPs keeping people safe and well cared for in their own homes? The AHPs doing the preventative work to minimise the numbers of patients turning up to ED in an ambulance in the first place? The discharge to assess teams working 7 day weeks to ensure patients can receive care at home and keep hospital beds flowing? I was redeployed outside of my specialty for 5 months with little notice and no training. I was put into lone working environments to work with people who both did and did not have Covid, wearing PPE that was later found to be out of date and not fit for purpose, working with people who were violent, under the influence, etc etc etc. And I sucked it up, because I do my bit as do all my AHP colleagues. I can live without the clapping, and have lived without the pay rises but it’s incredibly demoralising to think us AHPs are so poorly thought of by nursing and medical professions.

Public sector staff were not allowed to be furloughed, they had to work through the pandemic regardless, whether front line or not. They worked more hours (and some still do) than their contract stated and they were already overworked, over stressed and underpayed from years of frozen salaries. I would imagine no one would deny ICU staff trying to save as many lives as they can getting a pay rise but I also agree that the staff below them, the nurses, the admin team, the cleaners, the support staff who work equally as hard to ensure their job runs smoothly, also deserves as much....as do ALL employed people who have worked tirelessly during this crisis to do their best for humanity. Let’s also not forget those who are not employed who volunteered and gave up their time to help those most in need. I know what role I played, you know what role you played. We were all in this together weren’t we? Why does money make everything so unfair. Xx

I am certainly not against doctors and nurses on some grades getting a rise. I think it is even more urgent that the pay and conditions of home care workers be looked into. Since these services were put out to private tender and stopped being run by local authorities the terms of service are terrible. No time allowed for travelling between homes ( sometimes a distance rurally or in areas with traffic jams in towns and cities), no fuel allowance, pay close to minimum wage and providing intimate personal care. It's absolutely disgraceful.

For what it's worth here's my view.
I think the government should campaign as to the actuality of various professions so that the 'public' have a true awareness of the level of skill and education we all have.

Nurses arnt just handmaid's
Physios don't just move people
Doctors aren't infalliable
OT's can revolutionise use your life
Porters
Cleaners
Health care assistants
Cardiac physiologists
Sonographers
......the list literally goes on and on.

We all have a great deal of intelligence, skill, experience, knowledge and aptitude. We all make a team that ultimately gets that patient to where they want to be whether that's at the beginning or the end of their journey.

Where the frustration lies is the perpetuation of old fashioned views, and this contributes to the overall frustration. Financial recognition is just one part of this picture.

There should also be pay rises for educational psychologists and clinical psychologists. Psychologists have been under relentless pressure over the past nine months. They haven’t stopped working and the statutory demands have gone through the roof.

It’s kinda of a moot point anyway this debating the value of one profession over another.

So why did you start by doing exactly that then @FlorenceNightshade?

If I was in hospital, having issues with an abnormal swallow and aspiration pneumonia, I’d far rather see a speech therapist than a regular nurse. No offence to most nurses who are great.

Never had my life literally saved by a nurse. I have however, had life saving treatment from paramedics who are also woefully underpaid and under valued.

@Roo1000

Public sector staff were not allowed to be furloughed, they had to work through the pandemic regardless, whether front line or not. They worked more hours (and some still do) than their contract stated and they were already overworked, over stressed and underpayed from years of frozen salaries. I would imagine no one would deny ICU staff trying to save as many lives as they can getting a pay rise but I also agree that the staff below them, the nurses, the admin team, the cleaners, the support staff who work equally as hard to ensure their job runs smoothly, also deserves as much....as do ALL employed people who have worked tirelessly during this crisis to do their best for humanity. Let’s also not forget those who are not employed who volunteered and gave up their time to help those most in need. I know what role I played, you know what role you played. We were all in this together weren’t we? Why does money make everything so unfair. Xx

👏👏👏

Could not agree more. After the year we have had how could anyone begrudge public sector workers a pay rise.

FlorenceNightshade

I was going to ask if you were a disgruntled band 5 but I see you have answered that question. I suggest you try working in different areas with different teams and develop good working relationships with all your colleagues!

My DH is a respiratory physio on ITU. He does save lives, literally. He clears chests, reviews patient, adjusts ventilator settings, bags patients, is involved in all resuscitations.

I’m tired of the ignorance on this thread. We are all a team, there is not a chance we could have got through this without every person involved.

Biomedical scientists help identify: infections, diabetes, liver disease, cancer, heart attacks, overdoses, poisoning, blood transfusion matches, anaemia, results of every other single blood test there is.
All these diseases didn’t just stop happening because of COVID. We work nights. A lot of our work is screening for diseases which is super important.
We now have the additional responsibility of testing COVID swabs.

If you say so, love. Ever heard of narcissistic personality disorder?
Have you?

Totally inaccurate use of narcissistic personality disorder. Troll.

@ChelseaCat

It should be done in conjunction with a raise for physios, OTs, SALT, dietitians etc. Drs and Nurses aren’t anymore deserving than other HCPs

This

Absolutely all NHS staff that have worked hard this year deserve a pay rise.

But This needs to go hand in hand with some serious HR reform to look at sick pay ! Paying full pay for 6 months followed by half pay for 6 months is crazy and encourages piss taking ! It demoralises teams who have to pick up the slack and leads to enormous stress levels and more absence. It's virtually impossible to get rid of staff who don't pull their weight !

The pay rise Sinaloa was bleating on about today...around £275. I asked the TV if that was monthly.

Took me a few minutes to realise he meant per YEAR- £275 over an entire year.

It's a bloody insult.

(Not NHS - I'm Private sector. No pay rise since 2013 & that was through a job change)

@Incrediblytired

I'm not a troll, but will admit that I'm ignorant about the reality of narcissistic personality disorder. Apologies for offending anyone.