How to deal with in laws who don’t appreciate the seriousness of racism

[StrugglingAndConfused]

Hi everyone,

This is something that’s been hanging over me for a while and I thought I could do with the opinion of people who understand family dynamics.

I married my husband a couple of months ago. Should have had a wedding in June but we cancelled because of corona so went ahead with a micro wedding after I found out I’m pregnant. I’m now 20+4.

I come from a Middle Eastern background and am Muslim. DH is white. For around a year we were told that DSIL’s husband (ie DH’s sister’s husband) won’t be coming to the wedding because he has depression and can’t deal with big crowds. At the start of this year DSIL admitted to DH that was actually a cover story. The reality is her husband won’t be coming because he’s against our relationship. He thinks DH shouldn’t be marrying me. Essentially, he has an issue with our relationship. It’s not clear if it’s because I’m Muslim or Arab (or both) but either way he has an issue with my background and who I am and was boycotting the wedding (yes, seriously).

In hindsight during the handful of times I’d met him before he was never friendly with me, but I assumed that was his personality and never questioned it. DH noticed it too but didn’t think much of it either.

After all this came to light, DH told DSIL that he will never put me in the same room as her husband again, and if he does boycott the wedding then his relationship with him is over. He very much had my back.

Corona happened and wedding was cancelled. We eventually decided to have the micro wedding. DH’s parents tried to persuade DH to invite his BIL and DH made it clear that he is invited by virtue of being married to his sister, but he’s not going to expressly call him and invite him.

DH’s two year old nephew (DSIL’s son) was meant to be a page boy but about 3 weeks before the wedding DSIL called DH to tell him her husband is not letting their son come to the wedding (in hindsight, it was for the best - she was able to enjoy the day without looking after a toddler).

One issue that happened in the run up to the wedding is the MIL was very vague about whether or not she invited her brother (DH’s uncle) to the wedding. She kept saying she did but played dumb as to whether her email reached her brother. Finally, when numbers were increased which meant we could have more people, she said “now I can invite my brother”. Both DH and I noticed that and to me, that implied she never actually invited him. After the wedding, we were staying at MIL and FIL’s house whilst they were away and I came across a note they had written. I was looking for a pen (genuinely!) and saw a piece of paper with their thoughts on the wedding guest list. As numbers were very limited, it said that DH and I should personally invite DSIL’s husband, and he can take the place or MIL’s brother. Essentially, they decided that we should go out of our view to make DSIL’s husband feel welcome, at the expense of having her own brother at our wedding, who we really wanted there. We should have invited him ourselves tbh and that’s where we went wrong. I told DH I found this note a couple of weeks later and he essentially didn’t believe me. He kept saying “my mum wouldn’t lie to me”. Being honest, that hurt - he essentially thought I was lying. I’ve not brought it up since.

My issue now is that I am genuinely struggling with the lack of support from my in laws over the racism and islamophobia that is targeted at me. They know we never intend to see DSIL’s husband again, but I’m struggling with their lack of outrage. DSIL has never said anything to me at all about her husband, so I find it so awkward that we’ve had to meet her outside in parks and she’s never once said “sorry about my husband”, or even acknowledged it to me. In fact, she told DH her husband has his reasons for his views, as though she was justifying it.

With MIL and FIL, they also made excuses for him. “Oh his business failed so his head isn’t in the right place”, and so on. When we were told the news about DH’s nephew not being able to come, we were with them. I actually cried and had to excuse myself and when I came back in the room, there was no sense of outrage or disgust at his behaviour. Or even, “I’m sorry you’re upset”. They didn’t acknowledge it.

And that’s what I’m struggling with. DH says his parents are in their 70s and never really knew or mixed with anyone who wasn’t white, so they don’t appreciate how much racism gets to me and hurts me. But to me, failing to speak out against it is allowing it to happen and is the same as being complicit. I just feel no one has ever said to DSIL’s husband “this is not ok and you should be disgusted and ashamed”. They talk about him around me like he’s part of the family, which I know he is, but it’s like they don’t care. I know their priority will always be their son and daughter, so my hurt will matter less to them, but I’ve lost so much respect for them over this. DH will be devastated if he knows this because otherwise, his parents are lovely and go out of their way to make me feel welcome.

But once I lose respect or don’t like someone, I can’t hide it. If you’ve upset me or hurt me, I can’t be fake nice to your face. As much as I try to be normal, I come across cold and distant and that the most I can do if I try hard! DH is upset that this is potentially causing a rift between me and his parents and sister, but I just don’t know what to do.

As I say.....

Everything @Mischance just said.

It seems like some posters are encouraging the complete breakdown of the family involved. All but one of whom (who is family by marriage) are normal decent people. This is not a positive result for anyone, especially OP.

If there's any mother of adults here who would risk losing their own daughter for the sake of saying their piece to a man who won't change his mind even if they do, I'd be really surprised.

There's so much knee jerk reaction going on here without any thought for how real family life works, it's just nuts.

Wow this is shocking and you have every right to feel very upset at these people. So the bil has decided you are a type of person and for that you are not deemed worthy . And everyone else is also going along with this? Your sil should be apologizing on his behalf! But they have made this acceptable.
You know what I would do op? I would have nothing to do with ALL OF THEM.
And more to that, they will have nothing to do with my child. Your child will be half Muslim and knowing how they feel about that, I would never allow them a relationship with your child. Your dh needs to be much angrier. It's really horrible what they are doing and certainly not acceptable.

There is no good outcome here....

The pp talking about keeping the peace have no idea. People living with racism don't have peace. You must have missed the part where OP was left in tears. An adult. Left in tears.

That is not an environment to bring up children in. The only people who can have 'peace' is the racists because the status quo is racist.

Ofc OP should still have contact, but she should limit contact and be present to make sure that she protects her child from her in-laws.

Basically 18 years or more of damage limitation until her child is ready to deal with racism themselves.

And a child needs their parents. Imo extended family are in the category of 'nice to have' and they're not really that nice to have if they're a pack of racists and enablers.

Your sil should be apologizing on his behalf! - she is not responsible for her OH's behaviour and attitudes - she has nothing to apologise for. She is not saying these unacceptable things. She is not her OH - she is herself.

It is not about keeping the peace - it is about the OP deciding what she wants the outcome to be. Does she want to say nothing so that no-one is upset? Does she want to challenge this dreadful man whilst also being aware of the effects on the family? Does she want the rest of the family to disown this man? Does she want the rest of the family to openly acknowledge their support for her? There are many options for her.

Her stance on the unacceptability of the man's views is inevitable and entirely right; she has choices about what she does about it. And she needs to make these in the light of the probable consequences and make her choice as to what consequences she regards as tolerable.

As they say: we cannot always choose what happens to us, but we can choose how we react.

I am still so surprised that so many people advocate tolerance by OP of the racist status quo. Just don’t rock the boat, you don’t want to disturb other people and their isolated peace. So, they say, suck it up, no one will have the courage to make a stand so you shouldn’t dare to either. Your disapproval is disturbing, so please don’t damage the poor lovely white 2.4 fragile family with your non-acceptance of their racism, overt or tacit.

OP please never shut and and do not accept this for your children. More and more people like BIL are crawling out of the woodwork, strengthened by others who support and enable them. It isn’t going to be any better in the future, it will be worse unfortunately.

I am still so surprised that so many people advocate tolerance by OP of the racist status quo. who is doing that?

Every family contains twats. In terms of family function, I have rarely if ever seen good come from trying to divide out the twats - it will have effects across the family. Quietly acknowledging their twattishness and avoiding emotional entanglement works as well, you won't ever likely stop them from being that way. In this case it would almost certainly alienate his wife, or at least make things very difficult for her, which is as bad an outcome for the family as alienated you or your husband, OP.

Families everywhere are full of people who are picky, have anger issues, are greedy, immoral businesspeople, serial adulterers, bad parents, dishonest, lazy, vain, judgemental, bigoted, sexist, and every other bad quality you could imagine. Some are outright criminals. But families are not like friends, and we have some (though not a total) obligation to put up with these people whatever their poor qualities - doing so doesn't imply we like those things about them.

Mischance Off course she should apologize. When she withdrew her son from the wedding, she stood by her husband's stance!! To just go on with the day, without so much an apology or explanation was not acceptable.

The SIL is just as racist but she is better at covering it up.

@JillofTrades

Mischance Off course she should apologize. When she withdrew her son from the wedding, she stood by her husband's stance!! To just go on with the day, without so much an apology or explanation was not acceptable.

The SIL is just as racist but she is better at covering it up.

Her husband refused to let her son go.

The very fact that she had no say in the matter shows that she's not in a position to change his views, and that if her parents challenged him, she could end up isolated in an abusive relationship. No parent will risk that.

I am still so surprised that so many people advocate tolerance by OP of the racist status quo. who is doing that?

I too have not seen anyone doing that.

The SIL is just as racist but she is better at covering it up. - we do not know this. We do not know her. I strongly suspect the possibility that this deeply unpleasant man may have her under his thumb in ways we do not know about. We are all rightly very quick on Mumsnet to support women in this controlling situation and this could be a factor here.

I hear the point that Goosefoot is making - most families do indeed have their fair share of twats; and when we marry into a family we often find ourselves in company we certainly would not have chosen.

It may not always be productive to our own aims in life to point out their twattishness.

Aims and outcomes are what the OP needs to deliberate on. Her aims, her outcomes, her choices.

I think what the OP needs to hear is that we understand her hurt and feel it for her; rather than telling her what she should do. She has a right to choose which battles she want to engage in and how.

I'm sorry for your situation, OP. I think the calm but honest approach is the one. It's really for your husband to get into it with his sister if he wants to or keep his distance from the pair of them otherwise.

she is not responsible for her OH's behaviour and attitudes - she has nothing to apologise for. She is not saying these unacceptable things. She is not her OH - she is herself.

I agree, HOWEVER, I struggle to think SIL didn’t know his views before she married him and proceeded to have a child with him whichever came first. OP saying this:

In fact, she told DH her husband has his reasons for his views, as though she was justifying it.

Says something about SIL’s character and what she is able to live with and honestly if my sons brought home a racist I would be upset beyond belief and feel that I failed somewhere as a parent and tell them so. There is no justifiable reason to be racist.

OP’s main concentration should be on her baby and whether or not her and her husband feel that they can trust his family to be there and protect their baby once it is here and as it ages from people like BIL.

I’m not sure how another conversation is going to help when OP and her husband had two full-length conversations and all PILs did was talk about what BIL did for them and make excuses. It is probably best to talk to your husband and reiterate you don’t want to be near someone like BIL or hear anything about him ever. He doesn’t exist as far as you’re concerned and that for the future it may mean that if his sister or his parents come to your home, you don’t want to hear a word about him. They can excuse his views and behaviour but you’re not and don’t want someone like that mentioned and definitely not around the baby. I also don’t think you should hide your feelings. They sure aren’t about it, why should you? Heck, I would show up to every family gathering with a big smile on my face, laughing, smiling, and thinking he doesn’t exist.

*pretending

The minimisation and the subsequent 'wait, I don't see anyone doing that' by those like Mischance when all their posts have been EXACTLY THAT - minimising and suggesting she do nothing, is galling at the lack of self-awareness.

The OP has never said she wants to split the family. She has never said she wants to go NC.

All she has said is that she would like some acknowledgement from the PIL. That.....is......all. I mean, she left the table in tears. NO ONE followed her to comfort her. NO ONE said a word to her when she got back.

Most importantly, no one called it out. That is all she wants. Is for someone to call it out. By not going to comfort a distressed human, what sort of monster does that make them? ALL of them?

The standard you walk past, is the standard you accept. If someone makes a terrible comment about someone at a table, what is the appropriate thing to do? I'll say it, as a few on here seem utterly oblivious to how to behave like a decent human being: call......it......out.

If a child was being bullied, would you walk by that child as say nothing? And when that child had the courage to speak up, would you tell the child 'hush, you'll just make trouble for the bully's family'? I don't want this answered, because the feeling of dread in my stomach tells me the answer. Same as if you saw a child being beaten; would you walk by and pretend it wasn't happening to 'keep the peace' with the parent? Again, sadly, no need to answer. I already know the answer.

All the OP seems to want is for someone to call out any racism said in front of her, at the time it happens. She is not asking the PIL to never see their daughter again, or to legally disown them. All she is asking, is that they acknowledge any comments, and shut them right down, then and there. And to comfort her, when they see she is distressed. That is all.

@Goosefoot

Every family contains twats. In terms of family function, I have rarely if ever seen good come from trying to divide out the twats - it will have effects across the family. Quietly acknowledging their twattishness and avoiding emotional entanglement works as well, you won't ever likely stop them from being that way. In this case it would almost certainly alienate his wife, or at least make things very difficult for her, which is as bad an outcome for the family as alienated you or your husband, OP.

Families everywhere are full of people who are picky, have anger issues, are greedy, immoral businesspeople, serial adulterers, bad parents, dishonest, lazy, vain, judgemental, bigoted, sexist, and every other bad quality you could imagine. Some are outright criminals. But families are not like friends, and we have some (though not a total) obligation to put up with these people whatever their poor qualities - doing so doesn't imply we like those things about them.

I totally agree with you, it was what I was trying to say but you explained it better!

Thank you for your eloquence @Kalula

"All she has said is that she would like some acknowledgement from the PIL. That.....is......all. I mean, she left the table in tears. NO ONE followed her to comfort her. NO ONE said a word to her when she got back."

Her husband was there. This is his territory surely?

www.waterstones.com/book/why-im-no-longer-talking-to-white-people-about-race/reni-eddo-lodge/9781408870587

The book “Why I’m no longer talking to white people about race” may shed some light on the tolerance--towards-racists preachers on this thread and the differing sensitivities.

Funny how the compliant SIL gets turned into the poor victim here, lets just push OP and her hypersensitivity to the side and help the compliant and enabling family here because I quote: we have some (though not a total) obligation to put up with these people whatever their poor qualities

The OP has never said she wants to split the family. She has never said she wants to go NC

@Kalula those of us who brought that up are responding to those posters who are ranting and telling OP that she should go NC with the whole family. Not OP herself.

Families everywhere are full of people who are picky, have anger issues, are greedy, immoral businesspeople, serial adulterers, bad parents, dishonest, lazy, vain, judgemental, bigoted, sexist, and every other bad quality you could imagine. Some are outright criminals. But families are not like friends, and we have some (though not a total) obligation to put up with these people whatever their poor qualities - doing so doesn't imply we like those things about them.

Umm.. no we don’t. Family is who you make it. Just because you share blood with someone doesn’t make them family. People can choose to feel obligated doesn’t mean they have to be.

I’m not getting why your issue is with everyone else except the racist. Dh’s dsis is with a fucking awful misogynist. I said he couldn’t come to my wedding as he’d been awful to me previously - and yes a couple of the family said “it’s just one day” etc.

However I don’t blame them or even sil for it. It’s him - it’s not on them.

Goodness me! Would we be telling someone to keep the peace if the abuse was some other abuse?

This racism is abuse. It affects the OP mentally and eventually physiologically. Racism is traumatic.

What is this business of recommending the OP not rock the boat and instead deal with the abuse peacefully (ie, just live with it)?

The only good outcome is the OP standing up for herself and her future children. If that means others get upset because she calls out racism then she seriously do not need such people in her life. No loss.

I love that book “Why I no longer talk to white people about race”. The sympathy given to the racist BIL and the compliant SIL is spot on.