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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

How to deal with in laws who don’t appreciate the seriousness of racism

182 replies

StrugglingAndConfused · 22/11/2020 21:30

Hi everyone,

This is something that’s been hanging over me for a while and I thought I could do with the opinion of people who understand family dynamics.

I married my husband a couple of months ago. Should have had a wedding in June but we cancelled because of corona so went ahead with a micro wedding after I found out I’m pregnant. I’m now 20+4.

I come from a Middle Eastern background and am Muslim. DH is white. For around a year we were told that DSIL’s husband (ie DH’s sister’s husband) won’t be coming to the wedding because he has depression and can’t deal with big crowds. At the start of this year DSIL admitted to DH that was actually a cover story. The reality is her husband won’t be coming because he’s against our relationship. He thinks DH shouldn’t be marrying me. Essentially, he has an issue with our relationship. It’s not clear if it’s because I’m Muslim or Arab (or both) but either way he has an issue with my background and who I am and was boycotting the wedding (yes, seriously).

In hindsight during the handful of times I’d met him before he was never friendly with me, but I assumed that was his personality and never questioned it. DH noticed it too but didn’t think much of it either.

After all this came to light, DH told DSIL that he will never put me in the same room as her husband again, and if he does boycott the wedding then his relationship with him is over. He very much had my back.

Corona happened and wedding was cancelled. We eventually decided to have the micro wedding. DH’s parents tried to persuade DH to invite his BIL and DH made it clear that he is invited by virtue of being married to his sister, but he’s not going to expressly call him and invite him.

DH’s two year old nephew (DSIL’s son) was meant to be a page boy but about 3 weeks before the wedding DSIL called DH to tell him her husband is not letting their son come to the wedding (in hindsight, it was for the best - she was able to enjoy the day without looking after a toddler).

One issue that happened in the run up to the wedding is the MIL was very vague about whether or not she invited her brother (DH’s uncle) to the wedding. She kept saying she did but played dumb as to whether her email reached her brother. Finally, when numbers were increased which meant we could have more people, she said “now I can invite my brother”. Both DH and I noticed that and to me, that implied she never actually invited him. After the wedding, we were staying at MIL and FIL’s house whilst they were away and I came across a note they had written. I was looking for a pen (genuinely!) and saw a piece of paper with their thoughts on the wedding guest list. As numbers were very limited, it said that DH and I should personally invite DSIL’s husband, and he can take the place or MIL’s brother. Essentially, they decided that we should go out of our view to make DSIL’s husband feel welcome, at the expense of having her own brother at our wedding, who we really wanted there. We should have invited him ourselves tbh and that’s where we went wrong. I told DH I found this note a couple of weeks later and he essentially didn’t believe me. He kept saying “my mum wouldn’t lie to me”. Being honest, that hurt - he essentially thought I was lying. I’ve not brought it up since.

My issue now is that I am genuinely struggling with the lack of support from my in laws over the racism and islamophobia that is targeted at me. They know we never intend to see DSIL’s husband again, but I’m struggling with their lack of outrage. DSIL has never said anything to me at all about her husband, so I find it so awkward that we’ve had to meet her outside in parks and she’s never once said “sorry about my husband”, or even acknowledged it to me. In fact, she told DH her husband has his reasons for his views, as though she was justifying it.

With MIL and FIL, they also made excuses for him. “Oh his business failed so his head isn’t in the right place”, and so on. When we were told the news about DH’s nephew not being able to come, we were with them. I actually cried and had to excuse myself and when I came back in the room, there was no sense of outrage or disgust at his behaviour. Or even, “I’m sorry you’re upset”. They didn’t acknowledge it.

And that’s what I’m struggling with. DH says his parents are in their 70s and never really knew or mixed with anyone who wasn’t white, so they don’t appreciate how much racism gets to me and hurts me. But to me, failing to speak out against it is allowing it to happen and is the same as being complicit. I just feel no one has ever said to DSIL’s husband “this is not ok and you should be disgusted and ashamed”. They talk about him around me like he’s part of the family, which I know he is, but it’s like they don’t care. I know their priority will always be their son and daughter, so my hurt will matter less to them, but I’ve lost so much respect for them over this. DH will be devastated if he knows this because otherwise, his parents are lovely and go out of their way to make me feel welcome.

But once I lose respect or don’t like someone, I can’t hide it. If you’ve upset me or hurt me, I can’t be fake nice to your face. As much as I try to be normal, I come across cold and distant and that the most I can do if I try hard! DH is upset that this is potentially causing a rift between me and his parents and sister, but I just don’t know what to do.

OP posts:
Mintjulia · 23/11/2020 14:54

Look at it from the parents point of view.

They love their daughter who is married to BIL.
They love their son who is married to you.

Regardless of the issue (and I am not excusing racism in any way), it sounds like they do not want their daughter to have to choose between her husband and her parents. Since you don't all live together and don't see your BIL, they hope they can avoid a conflict.

Your DH is doing absolutely the right thing. Enjoy your marriage and child. Build your relationship with your PIls but let them try to find an uneasy middle ground with their daughter. They are in an impossible situation.

saraclara · 23/11/2020 15:28

Regardless of the issue (and I am not excusing racism in any way), it sounds like they do not want their daughter to have to choose between her husband and her parents. Since you don't all live together and don't see your BIL, they hope they can avoid a conflict.

Yes. Your BIL sounds very difficult and controlling. Who knows what he might do if your PILs properly confront him? At the moment your SIL might be actually defying him. I bet he's done everything he could to stop her going to the wedding or meeting you. Give her credit for that at least.

Your PILs and your SIL are good to you and don't let him affect their contact with you. They might not be good communicators and might be a bit socially awkward (hence not knowing quite what to do when you got upset) but you've said yourself that they're lovely.

I huge rift in the family isn't what anyone wants, especially if it affects their contact with their daughter. I don't think you can expect them to risk that by going full-on confrontational with him.

They are not the racists. He is.

phoenixrosehere · 23/11/2020 15:42

They are not the racists. He is.

They are making excuses for him. They are causing the rift by expecting OP to just grin and bear it. MIL went as far as inviting him to her wedding over her own brother who was supportive of OP and her son. Why would you invite a racist to someone’s wedding when they’re against the relationship. It comes down to them choosing their daughter over their son and accepting their SIL’s ways. How is that not racist? A little racist is still racist at the end of the day.

LoveMyKidsAndCats · 23/11/2020 15:44

Excuses excuses excuses. I am outraged for you. How have hisparentsgotto70 and only mixed with white people, I don't believe that. My white grandparents are in their 80s and definately know a range of different people. Such a poor excuse that one. Or they just keep themselves to themselves, with people like them. Your BIL is vile.

Aquamarine1029 · 23/11/2020 15:50

These people are awful, but you are kidding yourself if you think your 70+ year old in-laws are going to blow up their family in support of you. It's just not going to happen. They will feel stuck in the middle of their children, which they will be, and they probably wouldn't be able to bear it.

All you and your husband can do is decide how you handle it and if you want these people in your lives.

Clavinova · 23/11/2020 16:43

How have hisparentsgotto70 and only mixed with white people

They live in Devon, Cornwall, Norfolk, Suffolk, Somerset, parts of Surrey...

saraclara · 23/11/2020 18:05

@phoenixrosehere

They are not the racists. He is.

They are making excuses for him. They are causing the rift by expecting OP to just grin and bear it. MIL went as far as inviting him to her wedding over her own brother who was supportive of OP and her son. Why would you invite a racist to someone’s wedding when they’re against the relationship. It comes down to them choosing their daughter over their son and accepting their SIL’s ways. How is that not racist? A little racist is still racist at the end of the day.

OP's SIL hasn't done anything wrong. She came to the wedding, she meets the OP and her DH, and OP says the family are lovely.

None of us knows what other horrible faults the BIL has. We are not in any position to tell OP's in-laws what they should be doing about him. We don't even know what they have done so far. They might well have had the conversation with him, seen how he's reacted, and daren't go any further. So what they are doing instead is simply being kind, warm and welcoming to the OP within what they can control.

I find it ridiculous that people are telling OP to basically go non-contact with lovely people who have no control over what this awful man thinks. Even if they made him behave in a certain way, they can't control his mind.

There are very much worse people in the world than lovely welcoming in-laws who daren't do something that would blow their family apart.

phoenixrosehere · 23/11/2020 18:31

I find it ridiculous that people are telling OP to basically go non-contact with lovely people who have no control over what this awful man thinks. Even if they made him behave in a certain way, they can't control his mind.

Lovely people who aren’t taking OP’s feelings into consideration and making excuses for a racist. Lovely people who want to play happy families when there is one person who doesn’t want another part of the family there and they’re enabling him. They don’t even acknowledge the pain it causes OP. She has to grin and bear someone who doesn’t like her because of her race. She has to be around this person while others knowing this act as if it’s completely fine. It’s not.

Lovely people or not, they’re enabling a racist and hurting another family member with their silence and actions all to keep said racist and their daughter happy.

AcornAutumn · 23/11/2020 18:54

phoenix “ She has to grin and bear someone who doesn’t like her because of her race.“

Having read it again, she isn’t expected to ever be in a room with him.

They can’t stop their SIL, or anyone, being racist.

Looking back, a former friend of mine - her husband was very uncomfortable around me and I’ve since heard about some of the language he uses, so I now think his discomfort was about my skin colour.

Sadly, we could easily be mixing with racists and not even know.

If the family piled on this man to change his view, he’d be the poisonous one who corners you in private to say something awful.

I’d rather people were honest, that might seems strange, but it’s how I feel. It’s so shocking when someone sticks the knife in after being nice to your face.

OP mentions the wife doesn’t apologise for him. I wouldn’t want to apologise for the views of another adult either.

saraclara · 23/11/2020 18:54

@phoenixrosehere

I find it ridiculous that people are telling OP to basically go non-contact with lovely people who have no control over what this awful man thinks. Even if they made him behave in a certain way, they can't control his mind.

Lovely people who aren’t taking OP’s feelings into consideration and making excuses for a racist. Lovely people who want to play happy families when there is one person who doesn’t want another part of the family there and they’re enabling him. They don’t even acknowledge the pain it causes OP. She has to grin and bear someone who doesn’t like her because of her race. She has to be around this person while others knowing this act as if it’s completely fine. It’s not.

Lovely people or not, they’re enabling a racist and hurting another family member with their silence and actions all to keep said racist and their daughter happy.

And the only way to deal with that is cut them out of her lives? It doesn't sound as if she's even had a conversation with them about it. I'm not blaming her for that, but there are plenty of things that could be attempted before cutting them out of her and her DH's lives.
saraclara · 23/11/2020 18:55

their lives

phoenixrosehere · 23/11/2020 19:23

I'm not blaming her for that, but there are plenty of things that could be attempted before cutting them out of her and her DH's lives.

I never said they should cut them out. I don’t agree with them making excuses for him nor do I think that it is an impossible or difficult decision as some are making it out to be.

SkedaddIe · 23/11/2020 19:35

Shit happens and life isn't fair.

The PIL are in an unfortunate position, their daughter married an 'explicit' racist and now they need to confront the consequences of being part of a system of racism. That wasn't their choice but that is their situation. The consequence is their grandchild being shielded from harm, shielded from them.

Like I said life isn't fair.

No contact is not the same as very little and supervised contact. And it is absolutely the right thing to do because their feelings are not important than a child's safety. Pp defending this family because it's like holding up a mirror. Racists aren't bogeymen in the night they're 'good' people like you. This family left a grown woman in tears. Are you really really trying to pretend that they won't harm the mind of a developing child?

saraclara · 23/11/2020 19:44

@phoenixrosehere

I'm not blaming her for that, but there are plenty of things that could be attempted before cutting them out of her and her DH's lives.

I never said they should cut them out. I don’t agree with them making excuses for him nor do I think that it is an impossible or difficult decision as some are making it out to be.

You didn't. But the post of mine that you were responding to was about other posters who have pretty much said that.

Personally I think both OP and her DH need to sit down with her PIL's and have a proper conversation about BIL's behaviour and how their response to it makes her feel.
It seems like none of them are very good at communicating how they feel.

And yes, OP, it's not up to your SIL to apologise for her DH.

Happychristmashohoho · 23/11/2020 19:47

Rightly or wrongly they are trying to keep the peace and not cause a conflict with their daughter and grandson. I can understand that.

The bil is a grown adult and sounds totally obnoxious, but is totally responsible for his own actions. He is also entitled to choose not to attend the wedding or any other family gathering. I have known miserable, obnoxious blokes like this who refuse to get involved with family gatherings or their partners friends etc without race being involved, they’re just miserable gits.

phoenixrosehere · 24/11/2020 08:03

You didn't. But the post of mine that you were responding to was about other posters who have pretty much said that.

Several of those posters have been where OP is at. Are you in a mixed relationship? Ever been in one? Know any friends? Unless you’ve been there it’s easy not to understand why people would suggest low contact or even no contact by previous behaviours.

We can give the PIL the benefit of the doubt, however it will all come to a head (private conversation or not) once OP’s baby is here. It always does when a baby comes into it. Actions speak louder than words.

What’s going to happen then? PIL will have to show they will protect this new baby and eventually stand up for this child as they grow against racist behaviour. Will they sit back and do nothing when BIL likely goes after their new grandchild, if he hasn’t made his views already about it? Will they treat this grandchild differently over their daughter’s? Will their grandchildren even be allowed to be near each other considering BIL not allowing his child to participate in their wedding? There is going to be friction regardless because of their SIL. If they choose to continue to placate him and his views, they will likely give their son and OP no choice but to go low contact because their child will come first and need to be protected from people like him.

PicsInRed · 24/11/2020 08:08

Tell them your child will be raised Muslim.

Their reaction will be instructive.

dontdisturbmenow · 24/11/2020 08:32

For around a year we were told that DSIL’s husband (ie DH’s sister’s husband) won’t be coming to the wedding because he has depression and can’t deal with big crowds. At the start of this year DSIL admitted to DH that was actually a cover story. The reality is her husband won’t be coming because he’s against our relationship. He thinks DH shouldn’t be marrying me. Essentially, he has an issue with our relationship
Nowhere in your posts did you say that your BIL didn't agree with the relationship because of your race. Did your SIL said it in black and white that was the reason or did you automatically assumed that's what it must be. It couldn't in any way be due to him maybe thinking that the wedding was orchestrated only because you are pregnant, or that maybe you fell pregnant on purpose to pin down your OH.

No way am I accusing you of the latter but it could be another reason, albeit a sick one too for not liking you and wanting to boycot the wedding.

Why are you jumping at it being a race issue? Also, it's not nice to go and to go through people's private things in their own home. You got a pen, you had no reason to cast eyes on any documentation on that desk, even if it was as well exposed as you claim.

Happychristmashohoho · 24/11/2020 08:50

@dontdisturbmenow

For around a year we were told that DSIL’s husband (ie DH’s sister’s husband) won’t be coming to the wedding because he has depression and can’t deal with big crowds. At the start of this year DSIL admitted to DH that was actually a cover story. The reality is her husband won’t be coming because he’s against our relationship. He thinks DH shouldn’t be marrying me. Essentially, he has an issue with our relationship Nowhere in your posts did you say that your BIL didn't agree with the relationship because of your race. Did your SIL said it in black and white that was the reason or did you automatically assumed that's what it must be. It couldn't in any way be due to him maybe thinking that the wedding was orchestrated only because you are pregnant, or that maybe you fell pregnant on purpose to pin down your OH.

No way am I accusing you of the latter but it could be another reason, albeit a sick one too for not liking you and wanting to boycot the wedding.

Why are you jumping at it being a race issue? Also, it's not nice to go and to go through people's private things in their own home. You got a pen, you had no reason to cast eyes on any documentation on that desk, even if it was as well exposed as you claim.

I thought the same from reading the OP.

Unless there is more information not included.

Trisolaris · 24/11/2020 09:09

They are not just trying to keep the peace ffs! They expected OP and her DH to ‘fix’ a problem not of their making by continuing to invite the BIL to a wedding they had already invited him to and he had said he wouldn’t attend. To keep the peace they could have kept out of it, or they could have spoken to the SIL etc but no, they expected OP and her DH to continue to keep asking BIL to please come to their wedding!

Happychristmashohoho · 24/11/2020 09:27

They are trying to keep the peace. It sounds like they are hoping that everyone just gets along. You are assuming they know the full story, as to why the brother in law wouldnt attend the wedding. They may not know this.

You are making assumptions, but then you are criticising others for making assumptions. You can’t have it both ways.

Trisolaris · 24/11/2020 09:41

@Happychristmashohoho

They are trying to keep the peace. It sounds like they are hoping that everyone just gets along. You are assuming they know the full story, as to why the brother in law wouldnt attend the wedding. They may not know this.

You are making assumptions, but then you are criticising others for making assumptions. You can’t have it both ways.

Except that
  1. Ops husband has acknowledged that they do know and just don’t understand how much racism hurts her
  1. Op has stated they were there when they found out that the nephew couldn’t attend the wedding
  1. They were asked several times to invite MIL’s brother and didn’t do it, directly ignoring the request from OP and her husband because as OP said they expected them to go out of their way to speak to the BIL refusing to attend.

But sure, keep minimising.

Mischance · 24/11/2020 10:31

I think you need to play the long game here.

That your BIL is a racist shit is a given. He will not change. So that needs to be your starting point.

You need a plan of action to deal with it.

  • Decide what your aims are. They cannot include changing him, so the aims need to be something else, e.g. family unity, protecting your child, protecting your marriage, finding a way that OH can retain a relationship with his family - or whatever the aims might be for you.
  • Decide what your worst outcome would be and think about ways to avoid that. I suspect that the worst outcome would be that it drives a wedge between you and your OH.
  • in devising your plan include no element of wishful thinking - this guy is not going to change. You need to find a way of working round that that does not endorse his behaviour.
  • try and understand where others are coming from in all this - this does not excuse their stance, but just means that you are more likely to take decisions with good outcomes.

What you need to avoid is making decisions on the hoof and from an emotional standpoint (hard I know). If you can stand back a bit and try and be objective to the best of your ability, you are more likely to get the best outcome that you can.

There is a principle at stake here - that of abhorring racism - a principle that is very important. But do not let that lead you into making bad decisions for your future happiness. There will always be people like your BIL around and if you let them spoil your life they will have won.

All so very difficult for you - I am sorry you are in this situation.

SunshineinFlowers · 24/11/2020 10:59

@dontdisturbmenow

You should be ashamed of yourself. It’s people like you that allow racism to perpetuate in today’s world. OP’s post couldn’t be anymore clear - she was meant to get married in June but then cancelled. DSIL admitted at the beginning of this year her husband was boycotting the wedding because of her background. It has nothing to do with her being pregnant!!

Of course BIL’s behaviour is to do with race...DSIL admitted it and DH has tried to justify his parents response! Your “are you sure” comment is extremely unhelpful and shameful.

And that goes to all other posts here who minimise racism. Racism has no place in today’s society and it is absolutely disgusting how so many people here are downplaying it. If you allow racism to continue, you are part of the problem.

stella1know · 24/11/2020 12:39

All these “are you sure” “perhaps you made it all up” “be nice to poor confused BIL” “stop being a b to you sweet Innocent dear PIL” are classic Gaslighting @StrugglingAndConfused