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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

How to deal with in laws who don’t appreciate the seriousness of racism

182 replies

StrugglingAndConfused · 22/11/2020 21:30

Hi everyone,

This is something that’s been hanging over me for a while and I thought I could do with the opinion of people who understand family dynamics.

I married my husband a couple of months ago. Should have had a wedding in June but we cancelled because of corona so went ahead with a micro wedding after I found out I’m pregnant. I’m now 20+4.

I come from a Middle Eastern background and am Muslim. DH is white. For around a year we were told that DSIL’s husband (ie DH’s sister’s husband) won’t be coming to the wedding because he has depression and can’t deal with big crowds. At the start of this year DSIL admitted to DH that was actually a cover story. The reality is her husband won’t be coming because he’s against our relationship. He thinks DH shouldn’t be marrying me. Essentially, he has an issue with our relationship. It’s not clear if it’s because I’m Muslim or Arab (or both) but either way he has an issue with my background and who I am and was boycotting the wedding (yes, seriously).

In hindsight during the handful of times I’d met him before he was never friendly with me, but I assumed that was his personality and never questioned it. DH noticed it too but didn’t think much of it either.

After all this came to light, DH told DSIL that he will never put me in the same room as her husband again, and if he does boycott the wedding then his relationship with him is over. He very much had my back.

Corona happened and wedding was cancelled. We eventually decided to have the micro wedding. DH’s parents tried to persuade DH to invite his BIL and DH made it clear that he is invited by virtue of being married to his sister, but he’s not going to expressly call him and invite him.

DH’s two year old nephew (DSIL’s son) was meant to be a page boy but about 3 weeks before the wedding DSIL called DH to tell him her husband is not letting their son come to the wedding (in hindsight, it was for the best - she was able to enjoy the day without looking after a toddler).

One issue that happened in the run up to the wedding is the MIL was very vague about whether or not she invited her brother (DH’s uncle) to the wedding. She kept saying she did but played dumb as to whether her email reached her brother. Finally, when numbers were increased which meant we could have more people, she said “now I can invite my brother”. Both DH and I noticed that and to me, that implied she never actually invited him. After the wedding, we were staying at MIL and FIL’s house whilst they were away and I came across a note they had written. I was looking for a pen (genuinely!) and saw a piece of paper with their thoughts on the wedding guest list. As numbers were very limited, it said that DH and I should personally invite DSIL’s husband, and he can take the place or MIL’s brother. Essentially, they decided that we should go out of our view to make DSIL’s husband feel welcome, at the expense of having her own brother at our wedding, who we really wanted there. We should have invited him ourselves tbh and that’s where we went wrong. I told DH I found this note a couple of weeks later and he essentially didn’t believe me. He kept saying “my mum wouldn’t lie to me”. Being honest, that hurt - he essentially thought I was lying. I’ve not brought it up since.

My issue now is that I am genuinely struggling with the lack of support from my in laws over the racism and islamophobia that is targeted at me. They know we never intend to see DSIL’s husband again, but I’m struggling with their lack of outrage. DSIL has never said anything to me at all about her husband, so I find it so awkward that we’ve had to meet her outside in parks and she’s never once said “sorry about my husband”, or even acknowledged it to me. In fact, she told DH her husband has his reasons for his views, as though she was justifying it.

With MIL and FIL, they also made excuses for him. “Oh his business failed so his head isn’t in the right place”, and so on. When we were told the news about DH’s nephew not being able to come, we were with them. I actually cried and had to excuse myself and when I came back in the room, there was no sense of outrage or disgust at his behaviour. Or even, “I’m sorry you’re upset”. They didn’t acknowledge it.

And that’s what I’m struggling with. DH says his parents are in their 70s and never really knew or mixed with anyone who wasn’t white, so they don’t appreciate how much racism gets to me and hurts me. But to me, failing to speak out against it is allowing it to happen and is the same as being complicit. I just feel no one has ever said to DSIL’s husband “this is not ok and you should be disgusted and ashamed”. They talk about him around me like he’s part of the family, which I know he is, but it’s like they don’t care. I know their priority will always be their son and daughter, so my hurt will matter less to them, but I’ve lost so much respect for them over this. DH will be devastated if he knows this because otherwise, his parents are lovely and go out of their way to make me feel welcome.

But once I lose respect or don’t like someone, I can’t hide it. If you’ve upset me or hurt me, I can’t be fake nice to your face. As much as I try to be normal, I come across cold and distant and that the most I can do if I try hard! DH is upset that this is potentially causing a rift between me and his parents and sister, but I just don’t know what to do.

OP posts:
UmmH · 23/11/2020 12:21

@PopsicleHustler

Asalam alaikum *@ummH*

What was the page boys role. Am confused lol. Help a sis out

Alaikum salaam. Nothing really. Just to look cute in photos! His sister was a flower girl.
UmmH · 23/11/2020 12:23

Lol @all5zeds. Exactly!

SkedaddIe · 23/11/2020 12:26

Typical handwringing excuses for the in laws in this thread.

Your in-laws condone racism. That is racist. They are ALL racists. Don't be scared of saying the truth.

Focus on protecting your child and fuck their feelings. I genuinely feel sorry for your poor DH stuck in the middle, but you need to protect your child. Your child should grow up knowing that they come from love and acceptance.

That can start with your husband who has shown that he loves and supports who you are. If your in-laws can't do that for you now than how can you be sure they will do that for your child when they're born? NC is probably too extreme, but I wouldn't allow your child any contact with the in laws unless you or your husband is present.

NeilBuchananisBanksy · 23/11/2020 12:32

I think it might be something that's going to need to be confronted in due course when the baby arrives.

If BIL and by extension your PIL say anything about the baby being mixed race, your H will have to see this for what it is. Hopefully it will be a non-issue but until then, you aren't in the wrong but just bide your time a bit.

I'd be hurt too though.

Jayaywhynot · 23/11/2020 12:39

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Unfortunately we can't rely on "good" people to do the right thing, especially when it comes to tackling racism / bigotry within our own families.
Your only option is to stay away, make your feelings clear then retreat, they are not worth your time or your tears

Onjnmoeiejducwoapy · 23/11/2020 13:03

Some of the minimising on this thread is absolutely repulsive, I have had friends in this situation and trust me if you accept this it will only get worse.

There is no room for compromise when it comes to basic respect for you and for your future child.

If I were on your position I would approach this in a really detached way, looking at your relationship with DP as a whole and how you feel about proceeding with him. Obviously you have a child coming, and you probably love him and want to try to make it work. However I would be extremely cautious, as men who don’t have your back are unlikely to get better over time. His family is also the sort who clearly consider ignoring the pain of people to be a form of politeness—it’s partially a cultural a thing too, I live in England but I’m not English and I’ve experienced this with some families, where someone is upset and people think the polite thing to do is ignore. I could never be with someone whose family were like that.

In that case, you need to lay the situation out clear to him. He does not have your back. Anything less than his wholehearted support for your basic dignity and this relationship will end in tears.

If you can get through to him on the serisunesss of the situation—this is a relationship crunch point—he needs to get this through to his parents. Any minimisation from them and you leave. Strict rule. Your DH needs to take charge of ensuring the scumbag is not allowed around you. I would minimise/essentially end contact with his sister, he can see her alone.

I think anything less than this and you should seriously consider having the baby by yourself. If he can’t stand up for you on such a basic issue then you will quickly lose respect for him and become revolted. I have seen it happen, if he can’t grow the balls to demand you are respected you will grow to be revolted by him.

D4rwin · 23/11/2020 13:14

I'm sorry they're enabling his racism and not venting rage at him and vocally supporting / advocating for you and your relationship.

I'd put it to your DH that there's very little point in you seeing your SIL or parents as they clearly want you to change and not him.

D4rwin · 23/11/2020 13:14

*him the racist not the dh

deerdeerrt · 23/11/2020 13:18

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

dontdisturbmenow · 23/11/2020 13:21

Your in-laws condone racism. That is racist. They are ALL racists. Don't be scared of saying the truth
If that's the case, then the same applies to OP's OH who hasn't confronted his uncle and BIL directly. He is racist and she should never have married him.

DimidDavilby · 23/11/2020 13:23

Who are you to tell her what to do @deerdeerrt

notapizzaeater · 23/11/2020 13:28

@deerdeerrt

Are you a practising muslim?

You do know you shouldn't have had sex outside of marriage or even married a non-Muslim. Will your husband convert?

And wtf has this got to do with it ?
Onjnmoeiejducwoapy · 23/11/2020 13:29

@deerdeerrt oh do piss off dear and stop trying to police OP’s life

knittingaddict · 23/11/2020 13:32

@deerdeerrt

Are you a practising muslim?

You do know you shouldn't have had sex outside of marriage or even married a non-Muslim. Will your husband convert?

None of your business how the op does her faith. This is why I don't go to church anymore after decades of being a practising Christian all the judgements and "should haves". looks like there's one in every flavour of religion. Assume you're a muslim?
knittingaddict · 23/11/2020 13:33

Oh gosh, so many typos in that. I was in a hurry.

stella1know · 23/11/2020 13:37

Oh dear. Your PIL are the main problem for you. It is only going to get worse after children are born, and the million tiny things people from different demographics do differently, eg how long you breastfeed, whether you do the washing up under running water or a full sink, whether you like cats or dogs, whether you co-sleep; everything takes a cultural aspect when there is closet hostility, however silent they are now.
Cut your ties with SILs husband now. He will make your kids’ lives miserable and there is no way any child should be made to feel that they are “nasty half-caste terrorists” or whatever he mumbles. Racism is his heritage and you cannot fight that. Don’t bother trying or reasoning. Same for any other bigots in the family or circle. Zero tolerance, for the sake of your children. They have enough people trying to disadvantage them in life.
Prepare to cut ties with him forever and even PIL for a while if necessary. They will come running back if your husband establishes strong respect for you. Your family and kids will need to come first. No compromises ever, or you will be setting a path that is harder to get off.
Things may mellow five years down the line but put your foot down now. There is no other way.
PS (Similar background, much much milder situation, a long time ago)
Good luck and all the best for your little beautiful family 🙂

Zuzu5 · 23/11/2020 13:41

@CommanderBurnham

I think they're obviously embarrassed, and know he's a racist but are in an impossible position. They probably naively want to play happy families, and don't want to cause upset for their daughter if they openly side with your DH. You also don't know what they've been saying to stick up for you (or not).

Having said that, your BIL has at least done the gracious thing and pretended to like you when he doesn't. Also, your DH has got your back and that's all you can realistically expect.

Your SIL definitely has a DH problem. but it's her problem, not yours.

Concentrate on building a good relationship with your P ILs if you feel valued and respected. Definitely turn up to family occasions as normal. If he doesn't like you he can stay away.

FFS how is this about siding with DH or DSIL ?? No one is asking for the PIL to chose between their kids! They should however take a stand between the racist or the victim of racism!

"BIL has at least done the gracious thing and pretended to like you when he doesn't." Oh how awfully gracious of him! Way to minimise racism!

stella1know · 23/11/2020 13:42

I’m sure we could have an entire thread on mixed-background kids and closet-bigoted Grandparents. That is a very very thick book.
Slam the door shut on the racists now please.

Zuzu5 · 23/11/2020 14:00

They're white and have no idea what racism feels like. Yes they've gone through other struggles and perhaps suffered individual discrimination but its not systemic racism which is why they're able to just pretend like nothing and brush it under the matt as just an uncomfortable topic to avoid. People of colour dont have that privilege. You do not have to, nor should you, have to accept this OP. Im not saying you should tell them all to fuck off and never see them again, only you know whats right for you and if you believe they are genuinely good hearted people and non-racists but just ignorant in this context then by all means continue enjoying your relationship with them with whatever boundaries you feel are appropriate, but whats going to happen in the future if your DC suffers racism when he/she is with PIL - are they not gonna protect him? defend him? what about DH? He has gone through life as white and never had to deal with that, but his DC will, and he has to prepare for that. You need to talk to DH. You will have to be patient and understand that he cannot know what its like for POC and thats ok, he doesnt need to feel guilty for not being a victim of racism, but he will damn sure need to make an effort to learn how to recognise racism and take a stand for you and DC when it does happen.

SIL however I would go very low contact with. Keeping it civil during family functions but nothing more. Why is she married to a racist if she isnt one? I cannot imagine a non-racist marrying a racist, she was well aware of his opinions and chose him anyway

prapra · 23/11/2020 14:09

Fuck off to anyone racist or who stands by just watching. Not cool.
SIL FUCK OFF
PIL - what does ur gut tell you? Polite to you to keep son happy but closet racist/prejudist? Decide if they're worth a chat or not, and adapt contact to whatever you feel is right
DH - BIG talk. Either he gets on board or he gets out.
Racism sucks and you and DC deserve better

stella1know · 23/11/2020 14:13

“Why I no longer talk to white people about race” - perhaps a book recommendation?

Lollypop701 · 23/11/2020 14:18

Your pil will say nothing, as they don’t want to upset dd as they might lose contact with her and dgc. I don’t really agree with this but I would find it hard to go nc with my dc, so can kind of be ok with it. but this is as far as I could stretch... and it is a stretch on the basis that they do not condone his racism in any way themselves. I would just refuse to be anywhere near your sil family. I’m so sad you’re going through this op, it’s so stupid

UsernameChat · 23/11/2020 14:26

That sounds awful, OP. I think you'll just have to cut your losses on this one. The behaviour of your SILs husband is obviously dispicable, and I would find the lack of acknowledgement from your PIL about this unnacceptable as well. It sounds like it's not so much your PIL age, but perhaps their (narrow?) world view that shapes their behaviours...they sound very similar to my ex's parents.

As sad as it is, I don't think there is anything you can do about this. Accept that your PIL / SIL / SILs husband are never going to change and will never be who you want them to be. Make a happy life for yourself with your DH (congrats on your recent wedding, by the way!) and, if you can bare it, attend social functions with them, put on a polite face, but don't give them a second thought.

If any rift upsets your DH, he knows what caused it and it's not your problem to fix. It doesn't have to be a 'them or me' situation, but if his PIL query your lack of attendance at a family function, for example, he can simply say their attitude to racism makes you uncomfortable and leave it at that.

AcornAutumn · 23/11/2020 14:33

OP “One issue that happened in the run up to the wedding is the MIL was very vague about whether or not she invited her brother (DH’s uncle) to the wedding. She kept saying she did but played dumb as to whether her email reached her brother. Finally, when numbers were increased which meant we could have more people, she said “now I can invite my brother”. Both DH and I noticed that and to me, that implied she never actually invited him. After the wedding, we were staying at MIL and FIL’s house whilst they were away and I came across a note they had written. I was looking for a pen (genuinely!) and saw a piece of paper with their thoughts on the wedding guest list. As numbers were very limited, it said that DH and I should personally invite DSIL’s husband, and he can take the place or MIL’s brother. Essentially, they decided that we should go out of our view to make DSIL’s husband feel welcome, at the expense of having her own brother at our wedding, who we really wanted there. We should have invited him ourselves tbh and that’s where we went wrong. I told DH I found this note a couple of weeks later and he essentially didn’t believe me. He kept saying “my mum wouldn’t lie to me”. Being honest, that hurt - he essentially thought I was lying. I’ve not brought it up since.“

Sorry f I’m being thick but that part sounds absolutely chaotic. How does this relate to any of it?

Is it possible they have weird hopes that the man will change?

I don’t think you should be pushed to invite him to anything.

pretentiousrubberduck · 23/11/2020 14:34

I'm sure I've seen this post before, did you also post it on Reddit? Although I think you've given more information here