to think no sex is NOT always the kiss of death?

[moonlessmayhem]

Sorry NCed because (obviously) this is a bit of a personal issue.

I've read a few threads and had a few conversations with friends where the general consensus seems to be that sexless marriages are doomed or on their last legs. I don't really agree with this - I've had long periods of not having sex for personal reasons, and my relationship hasn't really suffered from it.

AIBU?

(also to preface NOT a troll, just a bit of a personal worry for me even if irrational)

I think, generally, the lower libido partner thinks it's perfectly fine and is happy with it, and then is astonished, upset and often contemptuous when they discover that the higher libido partner is not actually fine with it at and feels frustrated, unwanted, rejected and belittled.

So many times on MN someone posts about their partner wanting to have sex and them not wanting it and the majority of replies will be very much of the 'how dare they' kind, framing wanting an active sex life with your partner as unreasonable and grubby.

If both of you are entirely happy with the frequency and quality of sexual activity, then fine. Whether you're at it twice a day 365 days a year making the karma sutra look tame, or you haven't done more than affectionately shake hands since 1997, it doesn't matter as long as you're both satisfied and both feel loved and appreciated and like your needs are met. A no-sex marriage that suits both partners is not the kiss of death. The issue comes when you want different things.

I am sure it is as horrible to feel pestered for unwanted sex as it is to feel constantly rejected and sexually dismissed. I wish there was wider acknowledgement that wanting a mutually fulfilling sex life with your partner is normal and healthy and does not mean you are a sordid piece of crap. If my husband decided he was done with sex then I would be done with our marriage, unless he was supportive of me having sex outside it. Neither of us would be wrong for wanting or not wanting sex, but I would think he was wrong if he decided our sex life was over and expected our marriage to just continue as before.

I think, generally, the lower libido partner thinks…

I've just read that back and need to qualify as I don't think my 'generally' makes it clear- it's my belief that it is very often the case that the higher libido partner is not as happy with the situation as the lower libido partner believes, not that this is always the case.

Is your dh supportive in other areas of your life? He's very supportive, @runninguphills - we don't have a lot of arguments, and are very compatible in many ways. I just have a "swings-and-roundabouts" result when it comes to sex I suppose! I'm interested to read how many people associate sex and romance though - for example some of the things @thepeopleversuswork said:

and to go through that and then not even to get any sex or romance out of it. You could have a very satisfactory close friendship with someone without the downsides of having to live with them. Why put yourself through it all?

Do other people really only see sex as the only way to demonstrate romance? If I went on a night out and cuddled and kissed someone while telling them how beautiful they are and how much I love them, it would be considered cheating. There would be no sexual element yet it would still be an act of disloyalty - so I'm curious as to why people think relationships without sex are equivalent to friendships.

If my husband decided he was done with sex then I would be done with our marriage, unless he was supportive of me having sex outside it

I'm so intrigued by that, @unmarkedbythat. I guess I can only liken that to if my husband said "I never want to be romantically affectionate again" and then I would consider leaving too. Maybe this will be my asexual awakening!

@Beentherefonethat

I personally believe that lack of sex is the kiss of death if one person wants it and the other is not bothered.

It’s a long, slow, painful death.

This and if I was in such a relationship I would leave it.

Have you spoken to your partner about their needs? He may support you but an ideal world - how often would he like sex? What type of sex?

If he says he doesn't want it either - then you are OK.

If he said that if you were up for it, he would have sex every day with raunchy sex/role play/lots of blowjobs is his preference. Then I don't think your relationship will last.

moonlessmayhem

"Do other people really only see sex as the only way to demonstrate romance? If I went on a night out and cuddled and kissed someone while telling them how beautiful they are and how much I love them, it would be considered cheating. There would be no sexual element yet it would still be an act of disloyalty - so I'm curious as to why people think relationships without sex are equivalent to friendships."

I'm not exactly saying I think relationships without sex are equivalent to friendships. I totally understand there's more to a relationship than the act of sex.

I suppose what I'm saying is that there has to be a sexual/romantic component (not necessarily sex all the time) for it to be worthwhile for me. Otherwise I can't see how its more than a very close friendship.

Also for me the downsides of marriage significantly outweigh the upsides. I'd have to have a bloody good reason to bother getting married again and a marriage without sex just wouldn't be a huge draw.

I’ll pretty much always have sex with DH when he wants it. But I personally am not interested any more. I think I’ve just outgrown it

@moonlessmayhem

If my husband decided he was done with sex then I would be done with our marriage, unless he was supportive of me having sex outside it

I'm so intrigued by that, @unmarkedbythat. I guess I can only liken that to if my husband said "I never want to be romantically affectionate again" and then I would consider leaving too. Maybe this will be my asexual awakening!

I would also be done if he wasn't interested in romantic affection either! Sex is key for me, it probably isn't for everyone, what matters is that everyone in a relationship is happy with what happens, I think?

I feel that unless there's a full agreement about not having sex, then things can go sour. Maybe not immediately, but I don't feel such a relationship would survive.

I agree that one partner doesn't get to dictate the relationship, it has to be a fully discussed agreement. And even then, there may be some people appearing to agree with fingers crossed behind their backs.

I recall reading an article somewhere (can't remember where) about a couple who had decided to go celibate. The article was full of justifications from both that their relationship was better for it, they reckoned they were closer than people who viewed sex as being important in a relationship, etc.

But I didn't find these justifications convincing, really. On reading the article more closely, it became apparent that her libido was dying/had died, and he was writing about how hard it was to suppress his own libido. There were more little clues, but I felt then (and still do) that their relationship was unlikely to survive, that there was good reason to feel he'd agreed reluctantly, that all the justifications were to cover up that she no longer wanted sex.

Personally, the only reason I haven't had sex in over 3 years is a) I left my abusive ex, b) I had the ick with him and didn't want sex with him, and c) I haven't begun dating yet. I'd decided to give myself time to heal from the relationship, then mum died, and then covid came along. I would not be interested in a relationship without sex. And despite being post menopause, I plan on dating next year and having plenty of sex.

I could not be in a marriage without sex.
DH and I have been married 20 years. 4DC. We have had 6-8 week dry spells from time to time but not regularly.

I have the higher sex drive.

It would be a deal breaker for me.

Have you spoken to your partner about their needs? He may support you but an ideal world - how often would he like sex? What type of sex?
Sure, @runninguphills he'd have a lot more sex than I would - probably daily. But he understands I can't facilitate that and he is more than okay without it - sex is an extra thing that's fun and something he would like, but it's not a core component of what makes a relationship for him and he wouldn't leave me over it. As I've mentioned upthread, he would rather not have sex and be in a relationship with me rather than have sex with someone else.

I’ll pretty much always have sex with DH when he wants it. But I personally am not interested any more. I think I’ve just outgrown it
I definitely empathise with this @Welcometonowhere. I wonder what causes that feeling.

And despite being post menopause, I plan on dating next year and having plenty of sex. Good for you, @TurquoiseDragon! If it's what you seek from a relationship / an experience, then you should absolutely go for it and have fun. But I don't think my own relationship is doomed because I have minimal sex, is all!

@Anothernick

I actually feel quite sorry for people who are unable to experience the intense physical and mental satisfaction that good sex creates. It's a truly wonderful life-enhancing activity and every time we do it I think how lucky I am to be able to get so much pleasure from it.

This. I refuse to put myself in a sexless relationship again, I'd leave.

@moonlessmayhem he'd have a lot more sex than I would - probably daily

Could you meet him halfway? Maybe once a week. He may say to you that it's OK - but in a couple of years on, there is a risk that he will be unhappy.

It may be OK for you and you feel comfortable not to have sex. However, it is a natural need to want it.

If he ideally would like it daily, then it's incredibly important to him too. I know that you aren't keen at the moment but are you happy to let him spend him this time feeling frustrated and rejected? I also think that the risk of an affair would be greater.

This may be contentious - but I would still have sex. Not because you are subservient, but because you love him and recognise that his needs are normal and that sex in this context is healthy and good.

@moonlessmayhem

Have you spoken to your partner about their needs? He may support you but an ideal world - how often would he like sex? What type of sex? Sure, *@runninguphills* he'd have a lot more sex than I would - probably daily. But he understands I can't facilitate that and he is more than okay without it - sex is an extra thing that's fun and something he would like, but it's not a core component of what makes a relationship for him and he wouldn't leave me over it. As I've mentioned upthread, he would rather not have sex and be in a relationship with me rather than have sex with someone else.

I’ll pretty much always have sex with DH when he wants it. But I personally am not interested any more. I think I’ve just outgrown it
I definitely empathise with this @Welcometonowhere. I wonder what causes that feeling.

And despite being post menopause, I plan on dating next year and having plenty of sex. Good for you, @TurquoiseDragon! If it's what you seek from a relationship / an experience, then you should absolutely go for it and have fun. But I don't think my own relationship is doomed because I have minimal sex, is all!

Don't totally dismiss the mismatched sex drives. A loving partner will say whatever makes their OH secure. It's selfless like that... Weret there to boost our partners up when it's needed.

Tbh if you were so secure in your thoughts, you wouldn't be seeking validation for them on here. It must be needling the back of your mind on occasion.

Things are fine in your relationship, but if the day comes where sex becomes an issue, then he should be free to find someone who does want to sleep with him. It's the crux of it really.

It's when the person expects the other to go without sex forever because they no longer want to that things get a bit side heavy and cause issues. I'd leave someone who did that to me, regardless of how much we got on or loved them.

@moonlessmayhem

*If he ideally would like it daily, then it's incredibly important to him too. I know that you aren't keen at the moment but are you happy to let him spend him this time feeling frustrated and rejected? I also think that the risk of an affair would be greater.

This may be contentious - but I would still have sex. Not because you are subservient, but because you love him and recognise that his needs are normal and that sex in this context is healthy and good.*

I guess on some level, whether you mean it or not, this seems like putting his needs before mine. What about the MN catchphrase, "it's only consent if it's enthusiastic?", @runninguphills.
Also, I don't think him or I see sex as that black and white. E.g. I would like an extra £20 every few days if I could get it, but I'm not going to throw away all the money I have now to go out looking for it. He would enjoy sex, but it would be an extra little nice thing and given we have an otherwise great relationship, he's not missing out necessarily.

The concept of having sex with someone solely because you think they want it because they can't talk about their feelings even though you don't want sex at all seems like a very man-centred approach to relationships.

Things are fine in your relationship, but if the day comes where sex becomes an issue, then he should be free to find someone who does want to sleep with him. It's the crux of it really.

I agree with you, @gamerchick. If he ever becomes very unhappy, then he should leave or we should rearrange something. We've discussed open relationships and he's found the idea gross / upsetting. He likes having sex with me, but he doesn't want to have sex with other people (or throw away our relationship to do so).

As for the part about being insecure about it, I guess I am to a certain extent yeah. But then I think "here I am, in a happy loving relationship where he would feel comfortable to tell me if he was not having a nice time" and that's usually when I start conversations on MN. I guess I like to challenge assumptions people have & open up more dialogues about stuff that isn't talked about as openly, like sex.

(Sorry ignore my bold fail and tagging myself, no idea what happened there!)

@moonlessmayhem
I guess on some level, whether you mean it or not, this seems like putting his needs before mine. What about the MN catchphrase, "it's only consent if it's enthusiastic

I do agree that sex should be consensual. However, currently you are putting your needs above his.

I don't usually get so invested in a thread but I think it would be sad if your relationship deteriorated as you obviously love each other very much.

Do you have any idea why your libido has gone? Have you always felt like this?

I do agree that sex should be consensual. However, currently you are putting your needs above his.

@runninguphills

I agree, I am putting my needs above his in this situation. However, the only alternative would be have sex with him when I really don't want to, which wouldn't give him any sexual satisfaction and would only exacerbate the issue down the road I think. He couldn't enjoy sex if I didn't enjoy it, and he's previously said specifically not to have sex under those circumstances.

Do you have any idea why your libido has gone? Have you always felt like this?

I had a lot of sex when I was young that I didn't want to have, and I've never really had or desired "satisfying" sex in terms of an orgasm. My libido has had major highs and major lows, but it's actually now that I'm not depressed that I've realised I was using sex as a self destructive habit. I can rule out being gay or asexual because I do feel sexual attraction to men, but the sex itself I'm really not keen on. Analyse that information as you will

I don't think you are challenging assumptions by saying that a marriage should just truck on if the only thing that isn't right is "just" sex. I think people have always thought that.

I don't think you are challenging assumptions by saying that a marriage should just truck on if the only thing that isn't right is "just" sex. I think people have always thought that.

This has not been my perception, but I appreciate your viewpoint @SenselessUbiquity. I think quite a few people advocate for leaving relationships without sex, no matter the circumstances.

Either way, I'm just providing some experience and having a discussion. If you feel it's pointless, you can ignore the thread or read with disdain

@Chewwithyourfuckingmouthclosed what is making you think that by leaving a sexless relationship that would automatically then allow you to have deeply satisfying sex again?

Think it has been established that many women never have satisfying sex, in part because their partners have been crap in bed.
It can also be hard to find a partner again.

And that’s the crux of the problem. When it comes to leaving because of sex, you are taking a big gamble of the only issue is sex and all the rest is great (incl communication and intimacy).

The other side of the coin is the pressure put on the other partner by the person ‘who wants sex’. I have been on that side and always having to make the effort , to have sex ‘because otherwise She/he will leave‘ or because that’s what couple do and you can’t keep pushing him away etc... is solid destroying.
Of all the things that have happened, this is the thing that has been the most destructive in my marriage.

[quote TonMoulin]@Chewwithyourfuckingmouthclosed what is making you think that by leaving a sexless relationship that would automatically then allow you to have deeply satisfying sex again?

Think it has been established that many women never have satisfying sex, in part because their partners have been crap in bed.
It can also be hard to find a partner again.

And that’s the crux of the problem. When it comes to leaving because of sex, you are taking a big gamble of the only issue is sex and all the rest is great (incl communication and intimacy).

The other side of the coin is the pressure put on the other partner by the person ‘who wants sex’. I have been on that side and always having to make the effort , to have sex ‘because otherwise She/he will leave‘ or because that’s what couple do and you can’t keep pushing him away etc... is solid destroying.
Of all the things that have happened, this is the thing that has been the most destructive in my marriage.[/quote]
Because I did leave a sexless relationship and went on to have some of the most incredible sex of my life. Absolutely mind blowing.
My sex life with my current partner is great, we are both having the time of our lives, we adore each other's company massively.
Sex is part of the package, of the 2 relationships that I've had that I can 100% say I loved every fibre of his being, the sex and chemistry were great.
I've had two, low sex/sexless relationships and I honestly look back and see them as place markers.
I'm never doing that again.

It really depends on the individuals doesn’t it?

For instance, for me sex, intimacy, chemistry and romance, are all intertwined. Take sex away and I’d feel rejected, unattractive, unsatisfied and hurt. I could not live like that.
If one person out of a couple feels this way and the other doesn’t want sex, the relationship is screwed.

If both parties feel that they are happy without regular, or even any sex, I’m sure the relationship could continue successfully.

You can't guarantee that you will end up in a sexually satisfying relationship if you leave a no/low sex one, of course. But if DH decided he was finished with sex and didn't want me like that any more and was always going to be turning me down or having sex as a duty to keep me happy... oh, god, that would hurt so much. The sense of rejection would be unbearable. We have had some major relationship issues over the past couple of years, centred around some major changes DH made that meant he wasn't the way he always has been and our relationship was totally different and it was just awful for me for a long time. So if I am going to go without sex and intimacy and passion, I would rather actually be alone than right next to the person I used to share those joys with and still ache to share them with and who doesn't want me any more. There is a special kind of loneliness to being with someone and feeling unwanted.

This is not to say OP's partner or any other partners of people who stop wanting sex feel that way. But I would leave a no/ very low sex marriage not because I thought I was guaranteed more sex without it but to save myself the pain of trying to be with someone who couldn't give me what I need and didn't want what I was offering.