to think no sex is NOT always the kiss of death?

[moonlessmayhem]

Sorry NCed because (obviously) this is a bit of a personal issue.

I've read a few threads and had a few conversations with friends where the general consensus seems to be that sexless marriages are doomed or on their last legs. I don't really agree with this - I've had long periods of not having sex for personal reasons, and my relationship hasn't really suffered from it.

AIBU?

(also to preface NOT a troll, just a bit of a personal worry for me even if irrational)

How would you feel if your DP had meaningless sex with someone else OP?

This is a good question, @DioneTheDiabolist and I definitely know I have some hypocrisies within my relationship with sex. I think fundamentally I would be very hurt and damaged, but that's mostly because I know that my DH couldn't have sex with someone and not have the emotional connection / intensity. So I see it as; I don't feel the emotional intensity from sex necessarily, but I know that other people do, and so I would be upset they were seeking it out or receiving it from somewhere else.

It's not a perfect train of thought by any means and some of my sexual issues come from trauma, but I think it's not necessarily always the end of the world if there's a break from sex or if you're not having it (though maybe this is self soothing )

I would say to OP and others in sexless relationships where they themselves are happy: make sure you are not assuming that your partner's silence is an indication that they are happy. Men are often shit about discussing this, especially if you are dismissive or get angry when they try.

So once again, it's up to women to ensure that men are happy and take the responsibility for it.
It's not a man's responsibility to be able to express his feelings to his life long partner (because it's too hard for him but somehow not hard for women ?)

Maybe we should also stop babying men and treat them like adults.

If it is an issue for one partner it is an issue. The only way to know that is through communication. If you aren't communicated and you have just stopped having any sexual intimacy you are taking a risk with your relationship.

@romany4, It is a very good point.

Saying that no sex makes a loving relationhsip impossible is basically saying that many disabled people as well as chronically ill taking certain medications just will never have a loving relationship.

That's a sad world that :(

Which is why it so essential for the person WHO HAS AN ISSUE to talk about it @Hopoindown31.

It doesnt and shouldnt always be the woman's responsibility regardless of who has an issue in the couple.

I would say to OP and others in sexless relationships where they themselves are happy: make sure you are not assuming that your partner's silence is an indication that they are happy. Men are often shit about discussing this, especially if you are dismissive or get angry when they try

I hear this, and we've had many open conversations about it (and I will sometimes perform sex acts for him so I don't worry as much about him "missing out" - which he doesn't feel, but it's a worry nonetheless). I had a period of just having sex when I didn't want it, or having sex with the thought process of hoping I'd enjoy it by the end (as @TonMoulin mentioned upthread) but that corroded the relationship as well as our sex life to some degree.

If he had an issue, he would come and talk to me about it - you can't sort out an issue without mentioning it first after all.

If a sexless marriage is ok for both people, they can both genuinely say they are happy with romantic companionship and they wouldn't have their head turned by someone they have chemistry with then the relationship is probably sound.

Otherwise there's a danger that the relationship might be comfortable and each person is content, but they're just too comfy to leave. There's every chance the relationship could end if and when one of them rediscovered sexual chemistry with someone else (whether they act on it or not).

So once again, it's up to women to ensure that men are happy and take the responsibility for it.
It's not a man's responsibility to be able to express his feelings to his life long partner (because it's too hard for him but somehow not hard for women hmm?)

Maybe we should also stop babying men and treat them like adults.

So you advocate not encouraging honest communication about this and helping to create the right environment to do that because it is babying men?

I could be the kiss of death for me, unless it happened because one of us was unwell or depressed maybe.

Had decrease in sex with boyfriend during lockdown because he was feeling down. It didn't make me want to end the relationship, but it was a strain. I was starting to feel that I was unattractive to him.

In a previous relationship, he was being awful to me after we had a baby. That put me off sex with him, and then the relationship ended after a bit less than a year with no sex. So it didn't end because of no sex, but the lack of sex was indicative of relationship problems.

@tonmoulin you sound quite angry.

It is the responsibility of both partners in a relationship to be considerate and empathetic with each other. The important thing is that communication happens rather than trying to sit on the moral high ground of who should be starting the conversation.

So you advocate not encouraging honest communication about this and helping to create the right environment to do that because it is babying men?

How do you advise creating the right environment though, @Hopoindown31? I don't shout about it, I try not to be dismissive, I listen to any concerns and worries and we can come to a compromise. I think there's an innate, passionate part about sex but I think people also have control and CAN come to a compromise even if they have different sex drives.

I agree, but only because in my relationship there's one lower libido and one higher libido person. But the intimacy, affection and love is still there, so nobody is missing anything. In past relationships if I'd been without it was a symptom of something wrong, so it can be both.

@moonlessmayhem of course it is different strokes for different folks.

What we found works for us is a variant of nonviolent communication which we tried through some exercises with our counsellor at the time.

@Hopoindown31 Nonviolent communication? Could you fill me in on what that means?

It would be for me.

@moonlessmayhem

You'd be better off googling it, there are lots of resources out there.

Good question @moonlessmayhem.

I am all for open cmmunication.
I also strongly believe that communication is a two way act and that BOTH partners should be involved EQUALLY in the process.

I don't think there is anything controversial about that.

I would be interested to know how you are encouraging to right environment to communicate with 'men who are often shit about discussing this'. Surely it is their right and choice not to want to talk about it?

sorry x post @Hopoindown31

non violent communication is about HOW to give a message. It's not about whether yu should start a discussion on how often you have sex if you are happy with it and your partner doesn't give any sign he has an issue with it.

The problem with what you are proposing is that it assumes you shouod have known your dh would have an issue with it, even though he never said so.
Now widen that to every single life event where your partner moght not be hapy with it....

If Dh was constantky checking with me if I am happy with I would get pissed off quite quickly. It would be intrusive. And it would feel controlling (like he has to know every one of my thoughts and feelings about everything).
And obvioulsy it would be a waste of time. Because surely, if you have aproblem, the you say so? (And this where non violent communication has its place!)

It was the kiss of death for me, but it was more the pretence. I like sex a few times a week, as he got older DH libido got less and less. After DD2 (9) and I said no more kids he pretty much lost interest.

I sat him down and expressed how important it was for me, he'd promise and swear he was sexually attracted to me, wanted sex. He'd make an effort for a week or two and it would drift to nothing again. We'd never have sex of I didn't instigate and even then I'd say 20% was my instigating successful. He'd be tired or have something to do.
So we'd have the talk again, this cycle continued 3 or 4 times a year. I tried toys, outfits, games, hotel trips away just time the two of us.
It didn't make a difference and it was destroying me.

Even though he insisted he loved and fancied me he never 'looked' at me.

After many 'talks' I noticed a pattern beginning to develop. He would grab and grope me at really inappropriate times. I'd say save that for later. Then at bedtime he wanted to read or play his game and not look up from his phone.
Then when we had the talk he used to say 'of course I want you I show you all the time, like x in the kitchen yesterday'. Until I twigged on he was just groping me when he 'KNEW' we couldn't do anything so he could say he was showing me he was interested. That pissed me off.

It was just one thing in a list of reasons I left.
So the lack of sex on its own didn't kill it, the lack of honesty and intimacy and the downright pretence killed all respect for him and I stopped wanting sex. Then with all the other problems in the relationship I decided I was done.

Married 20 years, together 26. We don’t have sex very often-maybe once a month or so. When we do it’s pretty amazing. Then we always wonder why we don’t do it more often..... Generally because we’re both knackered.

We talk, joke, hug, kiss and fondle all the time though. I fancy the pants off him but am happy with the way things are. He seems to be content as well. I hope he is!!

I can only speak from personal experience.

In my first marriage, for numerous reasons on both sides, we didnt have a lot of sex. We spoke about this, it seemed like everything was fine. We had other things. We got on great, lots of talking and laughing. Then suddenly it wasn't fine. In counselling my ExH put a lot of emphasis on the lack of sex. He had seemed fine with it but apparently wasn't. Part of the reason we had so little sex was that I didn't enjoy it. PArt of the reason was difficult pregnancies. Part of it was that he had hidden parts of his sexual interests that only came out after the marriage (he is heterosexual)

During the year after our marraige ended I found out things about myself sexually. I had a few caring and talented sexual partners.

When I met my current DH sex was very different. Sex is part of our expression of love for each other. I can now see how important it is when it is part of a loving and mutually repsectful relationship, how much it adds to intimacy and how close we feel afterwards. I see it through a whole different lens now. I am also a therapist now and have a different insight into how men and women view sex. For a lot of men, sex is way of expressing love. I am not here to debate this. This is simply fact for some (not all) men.

Really, only you and your partner can decide if it's a deal breaker but like someone already said, don't assume silence is compliance. Likewise I would say don't assume someone is GENUINELY happy about it if they were not the ones to instigate the no/little sex part of the relationship.

I’m in a sexless relationship. DH is not interested at all. He won’t talk about it, go to the GP or anything. He’s effectively made the decision that I’m going to be celibate forever more. As long as I remain married I’m unlikely to have sex again.

It’s a major problem for me. I think he’s convinced himself that actually it’s not really a problem despite me telling him it is.

What’s actually happened now is that I resent him so much that I no longer fancy him anyway. If I told him I was leaving because of the absence of sex I’m quite sure he’d act all surprised and disbelieving.

It’s death by a thousand cuts and I feel DH has unilaterally broken our marriage vows.

I think based on the very opposing experiences of @MaisyMary77 and @BathshebaWasOnTheRoof (apologies for using you as examples) I think it's clear that it's not always the kiss of death, but when it is it's very painful.

I'd be interested to know how many people think celibacy would be an instant divorce situation - i.e. an immediate dealbreaker. There aren't many things that I'd completely jump ship instantly for, so I'm curious to hear other people's perspectives. (Thank you to you both and everyone else for sharing as well!)

also, @BathshebaWasOnTheRoof sorry I just wanted to add - which of your marriage vows do you consider to be broken? I was reading an opinion piece the other day that was talking about the idea that sex itself should be a marital vow, which I thought was quite interesting.