To wonder how school bullies feel as adults?

[NeonIcedcoffee]

I'm just thinking about how people who were bullies at school feel about it as adults. I went to a really crappy comp which served a number of socially deprived areas. Bullying was absolutely rife. This included physical violence. There was also lots of general intimidation and taking of things from people.
I experience a bit of bullying but it was for a relatively short time. So I'm less thinking about personal experience or wanting closure for myself if that makes sense.

I left secondary school in 2003 for context. I'm not sure if bullying is less tolerated now?

Anyway somone who was really vile and an awful bully popped up on my people you may know on Facebook. She just looked normal now. It made me think do people who behave like this know they were bullies? Do they feel bad?

I'm not talking about the normal politics of friendships in teenage years. That obviously goes on all the time. We probably all behaved selfishly or unkindly as teenagers! I'm thinking of proper bullies here.

@Fleamaker123

Saying that someone is a 'Bully magnet' implies that somehow it is their 'fault' and that they are attracting the abuse..that's quite devastating for a victim to hear.

I disagree, having been bullied both at school and at work. Saying that you are like that permanently is devastating. Saying that people can sometimes UNWITTINGLY "attract" bullying isn't victim blaming.

Woollyslippers

The problem with the train of thought that the word bullying is over used is how many times can someone be rude or mean before it comes bullying?

Like many words, the use of it is with the person that believes that they are being bullied, Gwenhwyfar posted about fat people being teased being common place, yet this is bullying calling it teasing minimises the impact of what was happening (I in no way mean that Gwenhwyfar was the one doing this).

"Gwenhwyfar posted about fat people being teased being common place, yet this is bullying calling it teasing minimises the impact of what was happening (I in no way mean that Gwenhwyfar was the one doing this)."

I wasn't really arguing that it's not bullying, though I would argue that the person who did it ONCE was not a bully. I was talking about how it was considered when I was at school. Mentioning someone's weight or even making fun of them for it was not as taboo as it is now. Compare it with other physical attributed. Calling someone four eyes because they wear glasses would probably be seen as less bad than calling someone fatty these days, but I don't think you'd have that 'hierarchy' thirty years ago.

Now, it's gone so far that the NHS has started saying 'people suffering from obesity' and even the medical word 'obese' is considered bad.

Gwenhwyfar

Saying that people can sometimes UNWITTINGLY "attract" bullying isn't victim blaming

That is a very fine line to draw.
Should the goth dress differently?
The unsporty become sporty?
The shy become bold?
No-one should have to change who they are because someone else makes them a target because of it.

People bully because they can, that is what needs to be stopped.

@FrippEnos your first paragraph is an interesting one

Whilst I agree with @Woollyslippers re thinking about the misuse of a word (I really do think words are misused) I have to say my mil was very rude to me and mean and I was able to brush it off for a year or so. Then it became more frequent and I began to hate being around her. It would not stop and whilst before she used to say nice things and mean things after a while it was only mean things and dig after dig .

Do you think perhaps it’s when being mean and rude starts to have an impact on your mental health / well being and when you start to dread being around that person then it becomes more than just rude and mean?

The situation with my mil is interesting because she genuinely believes she’s lovely as a person and she is with everyone for a few meetings but can never hold onto friends but doesn’t understand why.

She’s also raised a daughter who is very mean and rude but has more recently decided to become physically violent towards my kids. What was very very interesting was that my mil didn’t think her kid did anything wrong to hit.

@Woollyslippers I think you're referring to the thread I started months ago and yes I probably did post it under the wrong subject heading coz it got little traffic but I was interested in a healthy debate on what is a very emotive subject.

Bullying by definition is widely accepted as being repetitive, intentional involving a balance of power. @FrippEnos so a one off, whilst it might be horrible for the victim, it may not actually be classed as bullying. But if someone was repeatedly rude then there may be cause to consider it bullying.

My original post was after my friend's daughter was accused of bullying in primary school. It was a case of guilty until proven innocent and no-one believed her. She was made to stand up in front of the whole class to apologise for something she didn't do. She felt so let down because no-one believed her and it wasn't until her 'alleged' victim went on to accuse another girl of bullying, then another that the teachers spotted a pattern. This other child had switched schools several times and always said she'd been bullied at all of her schools where actually she was the bully.

My friend went through hell with this because mud sticks. Being falsely accused of bullying is as horrible as being actually bullied. I had been trying to help her by doing some research into false claims of bullying but it was very difficult to find statistics without a Freedom for Information request at lots of different levels which was beyond my wallet and trouble. But it remains that there is always a risk with raising awareness of a topic and rightly so, that it can be used as a tool with malicious intent or to gain attention because it is lacking elsewhere.

Genuine bullying is a vile and horrible thing and it most certainly exists but that child who went around accusing folk of bullying her will do so for the rest of her life. She knew how to use the term to her advantage and nowadays there should be safeguards against that. It is inevitable that along with all the rightful claims of bullying there will be false cases.

@20mum

There is a difference in the permanence of the way people see, and deal with, the world. If, from the safety of a supportive loving home, they encountered some name chanting in the playground, they may or may not be resilient, and may or may not remember it.

Others are miles away from this situation. They are likely to describe themselves as 'bully magnets' because they are not equipped with the same assumptions about what to expect from the world. (Someone born with missing limbs or sight may get along fine, but they just don't experience the same world as others. Prolonged extreme abuse from infancy leaves a similar gap in knowledge of how others deal with things)

They may be resilient, hardworking, and apparently successful, kind and cheerful, and usually will be extremely responsible and devoted towards their own DC, but nevertheless may look at the world differently. That may be their personal 'normal default setting', if they knew absolutely nothing except abuse of every kind, entirely undefended and un-befriended, beginning at birth as an unwanted/resented/detested baby, and continued from every abuser who had the chance, throughout childhood and early adult life.

(This is the life people believe is advisable, by being dogmatically opposed to abortion of hated babies)

In any future circumstances where no matter how they try, they have no control, even in something as petty as being denied a form, or an appointment, they are at a loss, because their competencies don't include the default assumptions other people share. They don't have any expectation, let alone certainty, they can wrench power from bullies (minor or serious,) who want to harm them.

N.B. They are 'non-state-torture survivors', not suited to being branded mentally ill, to be fixed by drugs or forced to remember and discuss details of the past, any more than a concentration camp survivor or someone who had his arm chopped off by torturers.

It wasn't acceptable, once, for people to speak their truths. Silencing them protected sentimentalists, who preferred to believe in a fantasy pink candyfloss world where nasty things cannot be possible. That, in turn, protected paedophiles and wife beaters, and rapists.

A market exists for U.K. men to direct live online SA of infants (mainly in an overseas country with explosive increases in population, based on religious dogma) Some infants are born for the purpose, and are 'working' under the supervision of their mothers. (I would cross reference to the 'sex work' is just a way to earn money' thread) Choosing to think it impossible is sentimentality. Choosing later to call such children crazy if ever they tell the truth, is not sensible.

True but surely those same bully magnets are just as likely or even more likely to become bullies themselves

If you read what a previous poster explained !much earlier on in the thread, I think her name was something like @TalkingToMyselfAndFeelingOld2

Abused by parents, bullied constantly at school then later labelled as BPD

But she went on to become a bully a very nasty one

She doesn't seem like someone with an entitled personality type either

When I was in therapy, my therapist told me to FB message the person who severely bullied me and left me with no self worth or confidence. She didn’t remember any of it, didn’t remember me and basically told me we were all adults now and get over it then blocked me.

There should be more done about bullies because it really does affect the rest of your life

There wasn't the same awareness of fat shaming then. Teasing fat people was pretty common. You seem to be beating yourself up about it far too much, thinking about it many times a week for just one comment.

^This too. A child who was overweight got called 'Fatty', it was par for the course. I was called that. Sure it wasn't nice, but it was mild compared to other things I had to cope with.

I remember people who weren't very nice to other children at school and by and large, they tend to be still in the same area, talking to the same people, staying firmly in their comfort zone with everything, doing poorly paid jobs and generally having the same politics and preferences as each other. In short, not a lot has gone on up top since they left school and there's not going to be much more self awareness now either

@Mittens030869

There wasn't the same awareness of fat shaming then. Teasing fat people was pretty common. You seem to be beating yourself up about it far too much, thinking about it many times a week for just one comment.

^This too. A child who was overweight got called 'Fatty', it was par for the course. I was called that. Sure it wasn't nice, but it was mild compared to other things I had to cope with.

But the child could have been called th t every day by strangers or their own parents. so even mild bullying in top of that, if the name calling was ongoing.

Low level constant on going bullying is traumatic in the sense of complex trauma. I went through years of systematic bullying that was this low level kind. Being teased, being humilited, being put down, belittled, sneered at, mocked. At home my father was also mentally abusive and sometimes physically, on and off.

It has caused me to feel unable to get close to people, to be shy and avoidant, to feel am not worth much, to not trust other s. The violence at home was worse I suppose but I suspect one of the reasons I struggle with complex ptsd , a label of PD, anxiety and ED which require therapy is because I have an unstable sense of self due to bullying. I did suffer a sexual assault at primary school also, what would have been classes as.sexual abuse of the kids involved weren't 11 years old but that happened only once at school, the rest of it was low level

I became very eager to prove myself to others and full of shame .

A previous poster on this thread mentioned how low level bullying made her want to disappear. That is how I feel at times.

My therapist told me once that all abuse can be damaging and there is no hierarchy of abuse.

Most of the bullies from my school now seem to be the ones preaching about mental health/be kind etc. One even wrote about how of affected them being bullied? Their memory seems to slightly distorted as they were the bullies & quite cruel at times!

@Barbie222

I remember people who weren't very nice to other children at school and by and large, they tend to be still in the same area, talking to the same people, staying firmly in their comfort zone with everything, doing poorly paid jobs and generally having the same politics and preferences as each other. In short, not a lot has gone on up top since they left school and there's not going to be much more self awareness now either

I do wonder if bullies have issues with confidence and children who are different make them feel threatened? So their way of coping is to make these other children feel inferior. Like a sort of school playground form of tall poppy syndrome.

Not saying that rationalizing makes the pain easier but at the end of the day, I think bullies must be very lacking in self love or awareness or parental validation to behave as they do, so they are losers basically

@Todaytomorrow09

Most of the bullies from my school now seem to be the ones preaching about mental health/be kind etc. One even wrote about how of affected them being bullied? Their memory seems to slightly distorted as they were the bullies & quite cruel at times!

Maybe they were both bullied and also bullies.

Or have children or nephews/nieces who are being bullied.

But that must be frustrating for you to see that. Hypocrisy is ugly and you would think with hindsight and maturity they'd be a bit more self aware.

@Hellomynameismary I think a lot of bullies have issues with adjusting your mindset and acknowledging that you were wrong in your thinking. I think it goes hand in hand with poor reasoning, poor ability to summarise a situation and see it clearly, difficulty in moving away from black/white analyses and narratives, and lack of self awareness - all the skills that tend to set apart life's better achievers. For want of a better phrase, bullying is a side effect of being a bit think.

Curiouspixie

I agree that bullies often accuse others of bullying them.

I have seen quite a few bullies claim to be the victim, bullies can be very insidious.

I never trust anyone who does the whole #bekind thing. They are usually the least likely to be kind themselves.

I've often wondered about this too.

I was bullied badly for part of my education. I try not to think about it too much. But no doubt it's badly affected my whole life. Mostly because my academic performance plummeted as a result. Because I was so distressed, and couldn't concentrate. I moved schools eventually, and things improved dramatically, but much was lost.
I doubt very much that the people involved, and one girl in particular, have the slightest clue how much they harmed me.
I've totally forgiven them by the way, as I know they were only kids themselves then, and I'm a Christian, so have to forgive. Also, forgiveness is very liberating for the injured party. But I can't even set foot in the county we lived in at the time. So I must have been traumatised. It was a shock, as I'd just emerged from a lovely gentle primary school, where there was no bullying whatsoever.

So, anyway, I doubt many former bullies are aware of the damage they did. But maybe some are, deep down, in quiet reflective moments. But if they have a conscience, it must be a difficult fact to face. So they possibly block it out?

Yes, I've also seen bullies falsely accusing others of bullying, more so among adults. I don't know how common it is...

@SnuggyBuggy

I never trust anyone who does the whole #bekind thing. They are usually the least likely to be kind themselves.

Totally this, I have repeatedly seen it used as, 'agree with me or you're mean' and if you politely offer an alternative point of view you get called all sorts of names...

It’s such a fake sentiment. You just know they don’t mean it.

"Scars remind us where we've been. They don't have to dictate where we're going."

My lovely, empathetic, witty daughter is a bully magnet, bullies find her, it's not a failing in her but in them.

An example: she was in Guides and was doing OK, doing the activities, having a good time, getting more confident. There was some sort of church event with lots of different Guide groups from different areas. My daughter did exactly what everyone else did, did not misbehave in any way, was wearing the uniform properly. At the end of the event, a woman from another group rushed over to her and started telling her she had done everything wrong, that she was wearing the uniform wrongly (?), in effect belittling her. This woman had singled my daughter out for no other reason than the woman was a bully and she had identified a victim. We asked our Guide leaders and my daughter had done nothing wrong and they couldn't understand why the woman had been so horrible. But they also didn't challenge her!

Unfortunately my daughter's Guide group starting holding events and meets with the woman's group and she found lots of reasons to pick on my daughter so she decided to stop going. The leader of our group only said that the woman was very keen everyone kept to the rules, but she was unable to say how my daughter was not keeping to them.

There are bullies in all walks of life.

For antibullying week last week my children came home saying 'it's only bullying if you do it everyday' which just made me want to cry.
They were under the impression that a well known bully isn't one because some days they don't bully.

I really didn't know what to say to fix it because, as we all know, teacher trumps mum 🙄

The main girl who caused trouble for me was expelled in year 10 because of her actions.

Hope she regrets it.

It really left me suicidal at 14-16.

I amazed that it's suggested as part of therapy to confront a bully via fb in adult life.

As has been discovered, you may not get the apology and closure you're seeking and will end up feeling worse.

The best therapy would be to exist in the present and look for positives in your life now and learn that you are ok and find evidence to support that - eg friends enjoy my company, I am a good listener.

Also, consider how bullying has shaped you as a person - I am kind, I make sure no one feels left out, I compliment people, bullying has made me more assertive