To wonder how school bullies feel as adults?

[NeonIcedcoffee]

I'm just thinking about how people who were bullies at school feel about it as adults. I went to a really crappy comp which served a number of socially deprived areas. Bullying was absolutely rife. This included physical violence. There was also lots of general intimidation and taking of things from people.
I experience a bit of bullying but it was for a relatively short time. So I'm less thinking about personal experience or wanting closure for myself if that makes sense.

I left secondary school in 2003 for context. I'm not sure if bullying is less tolerated now?

Anyway somone who was really vile and an awful bully popped up on my people you may know on Facebook. She just looked normal now. It made me think do people who behave like this know they were bullies? Do they feel bad?

I'm not talking about the normal politics of friendships in teenage years. That obviously goes on all the time. We probably all behaved selfishly or unkindly as teenagers! I'm thinking of proper bullies here.

[quote Sally665]@20mum

Genuinely confused by your post. Not dismissing it because everyone has the right to their viewpoint but I am completely at a loss. Are you blaming victims for being victims? I think you are saying bullies will always be bullies and find careers where they can perpetrate this?[/quote]
You will find many who are bully magnets. Particularly the unwanted children who were unable to defend themselves from infancy. The phrase' bully magnets' is commonplace among severe child abuse survivors, who routinely become abused partners and find that any random bully appears to detect them throughout life as being prey.

Possibly it is the opposite of a sense of entitlement, so that one person will encounter the petty official and face him down, insisting upon, and getting, whatever is sought. The next person will have no skill/experience/expectation of getting a reasonable deal in life, so will give up in despair and not manage to obtain whatever they were equally entitled to seek (e.g. an appointment, a form, to be spoken to, or even not to be harmed ),

And yes, bullies will sometimes stop bullying, but often will instead bully at every chance, and will naturally gravitate to positions where they have power, and will be able to abuse it. It isn't necessarily obvious, for example Harold Shipman was considered a wonderful doctor, popular with patients at least up to the day he killed them

@whattodo2019

I'm sure they are just as pig headed now. I doubt they will have any idea of the hurt and damage they caused

Not true.

It really upsets me that I behaved the way I did and I still don't understand why I chose to act out my own trauma on others this repeating the cycle. Maybe as my therapy.continues it will shed some light on this

@Fleamaker123

Saying that someone is a 'Bully magnet' implies that somehow it is their 'fault' and that they are attracting the abuse..that's quite devastating for a victim to hear.

I didn’t read it as being victim blaming - but I can see how it looks that way - so apologies for my stupid question, @gypsywater and @Fleamaker123.

depends what kind of bully they were I guess

I didn't have the entitled streak, I wasn't that kind of bully, I was more the kind of bully who took out the trauma I was living in on others. I don't have a type of personality that want a a lot of responsibility and couldn't see myself as someone in a top job.

It will be interesting if that kind of bully disciple on here to share insight into whether they have changed or not, feel remorse or not?

I left this thread yeaterday, but am back....it stirred up a lot ofnfeeli mg a in me. I was posting earlier in the thread as TalkingToMyselAndFeelingOld. It stirred up a lot of painful memories for me but undecided to come back today

None of my victims are on this thread , so I can't apologise directly to them but to all on here who.suffered at the hands of people like I was

I wish I could take back what I did

am fortunate that none of my victims have developed severe trauma issues. I know so many other victims aren't so fortumate.

Victim, I mean, not disciple

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius

It's ok, you were just asking the question 😊
I convinced myself it was me, I was different to everyone else, so boyfriends, university etc were just things that other people did. Cos it must be 'me', right? Took many years to change my mindset.
💐 It's painful xx

I think you CAN unwittingly attract it in a way just by being weak and not confident. What really upset me about pp's comment was that she claimed it would be forever.

I know that I was a bully magnet. I was traumatised by the SA going on at home and I was very easy to upset. I would either burst into tears or lash out and hit my tormentors, thus getting myself into trouble instead of them.

I was never physically bullied, it was all verbal abuse.

It doesn't have to go on like that forever. Therapy has made a big difference to my life and I haven't faced any bullying as an adult.

[quote Fleamaker123]@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius

It's ok, you were just asking the question 😊
I convinced myself it was me, I was different to everyone else, so boyfriends, university etc were just things that other people did. Cos it must be 'me', right? Took many years to change my mindset.
💐 It's painful xx[/quote]
I once went to therapy to find out why it kept happening to me as well. I thought it was me. Same thing happened to a friend.

Then I worked with different people and it never stopped again.
Some workplaces tolerate or even encourage it, others are the opposite.

I never, ever saw myself as a bully. In more recent years, some of my friends who I have known since school, have told me how much I have changed since we were teens, and that I used to be quite different. Honestly, it horrifies me, because I never saw myself that way. I have no recollection of the events they have brought up, which makes me feel incredibly guilty (as it should). Whilst it's not a justification for behaving horribly, I had an incredibly difficult time at home when I was growing up, which as an adult has left me with a colourful selection of mental health problems. I think anything that was going on at school, in my mind at the time, probably wouldn't have touched the sides of what I was experiencing at home. If I could turn back the clock and not push any of my hurt on other people, I 100% would, without a shadow of a doubt. Thankfully I've never been told that I was physically abusive, but I do understand that non-physical bullying in some cases can be worse. I've done my best to apologise and make amends where I can as an adult.

I hope that everyone on here who has been bullied finds their peace, and that people who have been bullies can recognise their actions and forgive themselves for their mistakes - it's the only way to break the cycle of hurt.

I said something downright nasty to one girl in my school days. I was about 14 I think, It was purely to big myself up in front of my mates and I remember feeling so bad at the time but over the years the guilt becomes more too. Especially now I’m more ‘aware’ of bullying and I have my own daughter now. It just makes me feel sick that I was that person.

I can’t even make excuses for myself it was a totally out of the blue and nasty comment about a girls weight.

I very often, probably a couple times a week think back to it and it makes me feel a bit ick.

I did apologise after we had left school years later and we kept in touch for a while.

It does make me think how some children can be relentless. For me it was the one comment the one time and that feels horrid, so for people who bully every day I just can’t fathom what they gain from it. I didn’t end up feeling cool, big or clever. I immediately felt like a chavvy little arsehole.

Not a proud moment in my life but I learnt from it.

They probably don't realise. I left in 2011 and it was still rife in my also large comp.

I found out in my mid-20s that a girl I was friends with at school considered me to have bullied her; I discovered this because she blanked me in the street and I mentioned it to a mutual acquaintance who said 'well, of course, she hates you'. I was totally shocked at the time. The friendship group as a whole was quite toxic/competitive in a very teenage way, with lots of silly fallings-out. The way I saw it at the time was that she would make little digs at me, usually first, but that I was better/quicker at it than her and so my comebacks would usually get a lot more approval and laughter. I guess I saw it as a competition that she willingly entered, and it wasn't my fault that I usually won. Looking back as an adult, I suspect she experienced it as me getting groups of people to laugh at her, and it must have felt awful, but that really wasn't a perspective I had on it at the time.

I do think about it, and feel very badly about it - I have wondered about reaching out and apologising, but am worried it would upset her and so would be selfish because it would be making myself feel less guilty at her expense. Reading the different responses of people on this thread to bullies apologising is very thought-provoking.

This is very interesting

I think my ‘best friend’ would say I bullied her at school. But I remember very clearly how I felt about her.

Her family were very arrogant. They shielded the kids from mixing with us kids and were only allowed to mix with their own family. On the odd occasion they were allowed to play with everyone on the street.

Even as a child, I felt like we were beneath them. They always had an air of superiority about them and often sniggered at us and other kids whilst they had their family around.

We were ‘best friends’ in her eyes. But in my eyes we just lived next door to each other.

In primary school she was needy and it was very suffocating. She expected us to be best friends. She had this idea of what best friends were like and I was always pulled up on not being a good friend or what I’d failed on. However she didn’t ever say it in a demanding way, it was always very needy. Really draining and really weak.

I absolutely hated it. I kept trying to shake her off and naturally spent more time with the friends who I got along better with. We always had fun and always laughed and I have really good memories of those friends.

My ‘best friend’ always played the victim. In high school she behaved the same way and continued to play the victim. (She dropped me when the IT girls took notice of her but then the IT girls dropped her after a week because they couldn’t cope with her. One of the IT girls asked me to ask her to stop following them which I didn’t do because that’s their dirty work, she literally walked behind them like a puppy whilst they all linked arms and walked around the playground. It was so sad to see)

Once she told me off for not wearing our friendship necklace as she held onto hers around her neck. She was disappointed in me.

At the same time she would make new friends and tell them of her sorrowful life. Mostly the new friends would ditch her. One particular new friend told me ‘she wanted to be my best friend and kept telling me depressing stories, I couldn’t stand it anymore’.

What’s more interesting is my ‘best friend’ was really nasty in ways which put me off further. I had a medical condition growing up and looked odd but when it was fixed and she saw me for the first time in a while she pulled a shocked face and said ‘woah you look different’ and then proceeded to grab my arm and tell me stories about how wonderful college life was and the new friends she had made.

But I can guarantee you now, if you asked her, she would definitely say I bullied her. But she would also say it about every other girl in school that didn’t want to be her friend in the end.

I have to point out she wasn’t aggressive. I wouldn’t even call it manipulating. I don’t think she was intentionally demanding or dismissive. To this day I still don’t get it.

I wouldn’t say I bullied her and I don’t think she bullied me. It was just really fucked up.

I remember once she went away for three days for a trip and she came up to me in school and held onto my hands and close to tears (almost like you were breaking up with the love of your life) said ‘I’m going to miss you’ and then she placed a small item of hers in my hand, clasped our hands together and told me to remember her everyday when I looked at this. Hugged me and walked away but then was sort of smirking.

She was obsessed from a very young age with making friends with white people only and kept on critics if people from our background.

When I was pregnant with my child she got in touch with me and was really nice and then started being really off with me via text with one word answers and sounding really irritated for a reason I don’t know. I really don’t. So I stopped messaging her and then about 6 months later sent me a birthday message and then I blocked her number.

I never saw her as a bully but she’d tell you otherwise.

Great thread, I've wondered this many times

Criticising people from our background *

I was bullied to the point of attempting suicide in secondary school. I also briefly bullied another girl, I think because I wanted to feel powerful after all that shit. I feel fucking awful and I hope it didn't affect her long-term. I tell myself it was "only" a few months and it was more teenage girls being mean to each other while they establish their place in the social hierarchy... but I know it isn't an excuse.

She added me on Facebook when we were in our early 20s. I really hope that means she's forgotten about it and doesn't think of me as her bully. I never mentioned it or apologised because I would hate my bullies to do that to me; I don't want to be responsible for their feelings and I don't accept any apology.

There is a difference in the permanence of the way people see, and deal with, the world. If, from the safety of a supportive loving home, they encountered some name chanting in the playground, they may or may not be resilient, and may or may not remember it.

Others are miles away from this situation. They are likely to describe themselves as 'bully magnets' because they are not equipped with the same assumptions about what to expect from the world. (Someone born with missing limbs or sight may get along fine, but they just don't experience the same world as others. Prolonged extreme abuse from infancy leaves a similar gap in knowledge of how others deal with things)

They may be resilient, hardworking, and apparently successful, kind and cheerful, and usually will be extremely responsible and devoted towards their own DC, but nevertheless may look at the world differently. That may be their personal 'normal default setting', if they knew absolutely nothing except abuse of every kind, entirely undefended and un-befriended, beginning at birth as an unwanted/resented/detested baby, and continued from every abuser who had the chance, throughout childhood and early adult life.

(This is the life people believe is advisable, by being dogmatically opposed to abortion of hated babies)

In any future circumstances where no matter how they try, they have no control, even in something as petty as being denied a form, or an appointment, they are at a loss, because their competencies don't include the default assumptions other people share. They don't have any expectation, let alone certainty, they can wrench power from bullies (minor or serious,) who want to harm them.

N.B. They are 'non-state-torture survivors', not suited to being branded mentally ill, to be fixed by drugs or forced to remember and discuss details of the past, any more than a concentration camp survivor or someone who had his arm chopped off by torturers.

It wasn't acceptable, once, for people to speak their truths. Silencing them protected sentimentalists, who preferred to believe in a fantasy pink candyfloss world where nasty things cannot be possible. That, in turn, protected paedophiles and wife beaters, and rapists.

A market exists for U.K. men to direct live online SA of infants (mainly in an overseas country with explosive increases in population, based on religious dogma) Some infants are born for the purpose, and are 'working' under the supervision of their mothers. (I would cross reference to the 'sex work' is just a way to earn money' thread) Choosing to think it impossible is sentimentality. Choosing later to call such children crazy if ever they tell the truth, is not sensible.

@Amberleaf12 there is another thread at the moment where the OP was wondering if the term 'bully' is banded about so much that it has become the 'go-to' phrase for any perceived slight. I'll try to post the original thing but it gave food for thought, particularly as there is another current thread when the OP used the term bully to describe her baby (though she did say it was tongue in cheek).

Here is the OP from an older thread, perhaps worthy of discussion?? I'm still not au fait with how to embed other posts

"I've name changed for this but I'm currently doing some research on the above subject.

Do you think the term bullying is overused? Are there times when it is just being rude or mean? Are we exposing our kids to the term to such an extent that it becomes the go-to phrase for any perceived slight? Do we need better definitions of bullying? Is it overused so much that it is becoming diluted? Is bullying on the increase or is the definition so broad based that in includes everything? Are we running the risk of creating a society that cannot cope because we are failing to build their resilience to real life? Could this be a mitigating factor in the rise of mental health issues?

Healthy, respectable discussion please."

You do seem to get people and also parents that struggle to see the difference between bullying and a fallout between friends.

I'm also not convinced this forced inclusion that some schools go for is a good idea. If you alienate people with how you treat them there will inevitably come a point where there aren't any adults to compel others to include you. I don't think anyone deserves to be bullied though.

"I can’t even make excuses for myself it was a totally out of the blue and nasty comment about a girls weight"

There wasn't the same awareness of fat shaming then. Teasing fat people was pretty common. You seem to be beating yourself up about it far too much, thinking about it many times a week for just one comment.

"Do you think the term bullying is overused? Are there times when it is just being rude or mean?"

It's not used for one instance of being rude or mean though is it It's used for sustained campaigns or one or two very bad instances such as someone being screamed at in the workplace.

"You do seem to get people and also parents that struggle to see the difference between bullying and a fallout between friends."

You're talking about now though and not when most of us were young. As I've said, picking on someone, even relentlessly over a long period and making their life a misery wasn't considered proper bullying when I was at school - it had to be physical or involve theft of dinner money. That old 'sticks and stones...'

The thread is not about someone claiming to be bullied just because someone else doesn't want to be friends with them.

[quote Woollyslippers]@Amberleaf12 there is another thread at the moment where the OP was wondering if the term 'bully' is banded about so much that it has become the 'go-to' phrase for any perceived slight. I'll try to post the original thing but it gave food for thought, particularly as there is another current thread when the OP used the term bully to describe her baby (though she did say it was tongue in cheek).[/quote]
You are right, sometimes over-use of words approaches "My bus was late, which upset me, which means I need counselling for trauma and drugs for anxiety" Or "My Polish neighbour parked where I wanted to, and I have part African heritage, so that proves he is a racist bully oppressing me" Or " I thought my ex H looked at me and my new DP in in the street, which made me feel uneasy, so I am experiencing the crime of DA ", Or, as you suggest, "I only parked on the double yellow for twenty minutes, so that warden is a bully"

There was a case where according to reports, a newlywed fell suddenly asleep during a prolonged lovemaking session, and woke to find her DP had continued either unaware of her catnap, or disregarding it She chose to be affronted, and was encouraged to use the full weight of the rape law because of her rights. Over use does bring a problem, by devaluing the currency of the word.

Nursery school insults of "You are a silly pooface" "You are a fatty bumbum" "I hate you because you are a big elephant" are technically abuse. But "My child was abused at nursery school" is putting it too strongly.
(On the other hand, it is arguably possible to be bullied by a baby or a kitten, both of whom can insist of obedience!)

I think the environment matters HUGELY. If a school robustly implements a zero-tolerance approach to bullying, bullying may still happen but it won't be rife and it will be dealt with. If the school turns a blind eye even people who in another environment wouldn't bully will get sucked in because abusive behaviours are normalised and a way to survive. It is those 'sucked-in' people who in later life will feel genuine remorse for what they've done I think. But you will always get a minority of sociopathic children who grow up to be sociopathic adults and who will continue to try and bully, wherever they are and whenever they think they can get away with it.

I think school staff should spend more time and resources to stamping out enabling behaviours. Without enablers, bullies can't thrive. I know mediation is banded about as a go-to solution but I know very few bullied people who feel they've benefited from it.