To think my boss's wife is being paranoid

[Hop27]

Work closely with my boss, I'm the most senior person in his management team. We had a big win recently so went out to celebrate (with partners), it ended up being a boozy night. As I went to leave with my DH I hugged everyone goodbye. The next day my boss was worried that he'd been a little over familiar, because his wife pulled him up on it saying he'd been inappropriate.
A few weeks later, we are in another city with work it had been a big day and we had a late dinner in the hotel bar, with a couple of drinks. His wife called around 10pm and said again he was being inappropriate drinking with me alone. He then got the cold treatment for the rest of the trip, she wouldn't take his calls etc and you could tell he was upset. I am doing the wrong thing? I enjoy his company, but that's it I am very happily married. Is she paranoid or am I over stepping the mark by having a drink with him?

@TheVanguardSix

Why does she automatically deserve the respect? Respect is earned.

Pray tell how this wife can 'earn' the OP's respect? Go on. I am all ears.

Firstly, aw thank you

No one owes a respect to someone automatically just because they married someone. The wife could easily earn the respect by her behaviour and when they all meet up like they did before. But not just simply for being his wife. In this example she lost any respect earned, because of how she behaves over a colleague dinner and drinks. Silent treatment? MN is very vocal that that's an abusive treatment and how controlling people get what they want. (I guess it only applies to when man does it based on this thread) We should learn that we don't owe anything automatic to other women just because we have same sex. Imho this is just a way for insecure woman to control a not so insecure woman. And that's just wrong.

I am not sure i am explaining myself clearly. Haven't had enough coffee yet😂

In the places I have worked it is entirely normal behaviour to both hug colleagues and to go out for drinks when away with work. Assuming it is not just the two of you doing this, OP, then I don't see that you need to change anything about your behaviour. This is an issue in his relationship and it is up to him to sort it out. If it means that you two can't go out for drinks, hug, whatever, then that is something for him and his wife to discuss, you don't need to fix the problem in their relationship. In fact, I would actively not try to fix it, as you don't know all the ins and outs of it and what is really going on between them. Just act normal and let him work it out with his wife.

@ReneeRol

You don't get to decide her boundaries. Their marriage is none of your business. He shouldn't be running back squealing to you, he should be putting in appropriate boundaries.

People will judge you on how you present yourself. If you're all over other men, they're going to smirk and make assumptions, if you're all over their husband, they have a right to tell him they don't want a creep who let's you feel them up.

Going drinking with a woman who's openly flirty and touchy feely, he's telling her that he'll take what you're offering and you're not presenting well to her. She has a right to not have you all over her husband or in their marriage.

What in the name of bollocks have I just read?

Is this a serious post?

If you were not inappropriate, then this is between his DW and him. I also work in a business where friendly hugs (pre-Corona) are commonplace and where socializing over drinks after dinner with colleagues or bosses is perfectly normal. My DP doesn’t think twice about it.

What shouldn’t be happening is your boss telling you what his wife says, and I would reply to him, “I’m not sure she’d be too happy about you telling me that.” It’s up to him and her to sort out.

@emilyfrost

Drinking alone with him is inappropriate, yes. And perhaps have a rethink about hugging absolutely everyone; it’s not always appropriate and a lot of people don’t like it and feel uncomfortable saying so.

You most certainly shouldn’t be having “boozy nights out” and “big dinners” during a pandemic, nor should you be touching anyone else either.

Why is a drink with your boss inappropriate? I do it (when not on mat leave!) when travelling for work or at a conference / event. My current boss is female. Is that inappropriate? My previous boss was male.

Jesus....wish people would stop showing off about their ‘normal’ lives.

Can’t wait to have these problems.

You are both being unprofessional, it's not appropriate to go out drinking with colleagues except in the context of a team meal out to celebrate. Then drop the hugging, it's not professional behaviour. Your boss should know better and, being senior management, so should you.

@Stoic123

Yes- some ridiculous responses on here.

Having a few drinks when you are on a work trip is totally normal. I don't see anything wrong with hugging if that's company culture and you've worked together a while.

Totally between them - she may have cause due to previous or may be very insecure. I'd avoid the hugging in future but it's up to him how he wants to play the socialising on work trips to manage his relationship.

This

(About 10 years ago, my DH - whose job at that time involved a lot of travel to some fairly random places - was sent on a 5-day trip to Barbados, with a female colleague. I was comparatively unmoved, but for some reason "Barbados" plus female colleague caused sharp intakes of breath from some family and friends )

Wow. Pre-Covid I used to travel a lot with my then boss. We went to the Far East for five days, and once our work was done, went out to dinner and then got hammered in the hotel bar. OK, the all nighter wasn’t very sensible. We got the flight back together, watched a film, had a nap, then hugged each other when we parted ways at Heathrow.

No idea if his wife knew any of this. My husband wasn’t remotely bothered.

I'm shocked at so many people saying it's not ok to drink with colleagues. What lovely environments they must work in and how fun they must be...

There is NOTHING wrong with going out for drinks or dinner with a colleague, especially when it's a work trip! My colleagues and I do it all the time (well, used to...pre corona times). Nothing sinister or inappropriate happens. We are all grown ups and people of the opposite sex can have a friendship / be friendly colleagues without crossing boundaries. Sounds like there are a lot of people here who think men and women can't be alone together...

Sounds like the wife is insecure. Why is not really your problem? Maybe he's cheated on her in the past, maybe she's noticed that he likes you or something, or maybe she is simply the jealous type. Either way, you are doing nothing wrong.

I’d stop the hugging, it’s unprofessional at best and foolhardy during a pandemic. Having dinner with your if you’re on a trip together is fine. I generally wouldn’t have drinks though.

God I miss normal life.

I suspect he’s not the wide-eyed innocent you say he is since he told you twice about arguments he’d had with his wife about you. The he first time maybe, but the detail about the cold treatment? Not on.

This thread is hilarious. OP, as you know, you've done nothing wrong. Possibly he shouldn't be sharing his wife's comments with you but from what I've read it wasn't some big heart to heart so I think it's actually fine.

I think the point that a lot of posters miss is that in some industries the boss/employee relationship isn't as cut and dried as in others. When working at a senior level, one person might technically be the team leader, but everyone is respected and valued and it's a team effort. It's not like the boss is handing out specific tasks and providing performance reviews in which he is reminding you to moderate your language when on the shop floor. Also, in Oz, I think the farewell hug is the equivalent of our farewell-half-hug-half-kinda-kiss-on-the-cheek-or-actually-near-the-ear-while-everyone-feels-a-bit-uncomfortable so it's really no big deal.

Many of my male colleagues I would of course not kiss/hug every day but certainly, if we all went out for a celebratory dinner or something, there would absolutely be social kissing/hugging (as above) on departure. Similarly, now that we don't work together any more when I see them once or twice a year, of course there's a social hello hug/kiss and goodbye at the end.

I have an annual boozy christmas lunch with a male client. DH doesn't even blink.

@Pumperthepumper

I suspect he’s not the wide-eyed innocent you say he is since he told you twice about arguments he’d had with his wife about you. The he first time maybe, but the detail about the cold treatment? Not on.

The cold treatment is not on.

They are spending days together, obviously this will come up if it's upsetting him. And it is rightfully upsetting him.

Jeez. In non-Covid times I actually get paid to go and drink with other people; it's part of my job. I frequently have dinner with colleagues, or my boss, or contacts, sometimes tete-a-tete, whilst on work trips in the UK and abroad. Drinks before and after dinner are very common.

The behaviour whilst drinking is key - joking, discussing, but not flirting. I've rarely seen anyone drunk, mainly because it's a risk if people reveal info they shouldn't.

We're not a huggy crowd, but generally in my field, greetings and goodbyes at evening events are European style cheek kisses for team members, boss, and people in other organisations that you work with, whilst handshakes are for new contacts you're networking with.

@MsHedgehog

I'm shocked at so many people saying it's not ok to drink with colleagues. What lovely environments they must work in and how fun they must be...

There is NOTHING wrong with going out for drinks or dinner with a colleague, especially when it's a work trip! My colleagues and I do it all the time (well, used to...pre corona times). Nothing sinister or inappropriate happens. We are all grown ups and people of the opposite sex can have a friendship / be friendly colleagues without crossing boundaries. Sounds like there are a lot of people here who think men and women can't be alone together...

Sounds like the wife is insecure. Why is not really your problem? Maybe he's cheated on her in the past, maybe she's noticed that he likes you or something, or maybe she is simply the jealous type. Either way, you are doing nothing wrong.

I'm shocked at so many people saying it's not ok to drink with colleagues. What lovely environments they must work in and how fun they must be...

I'm not, it was common that we would go to the pub at lunch time where I worked some 30 years ago. A memo came round a few months later saying that alcohol was not to be consumed at any gathering of work personnel whether during the working day or afterwards except at the annual Xmas meal.

They are spending days together, obviously this will come up if it's upsetting him. And it is rightfully upsetting him

Why share it with a work colleague on a work trip though? Especially when the argument is about your own behaviour with that work colleague?

Agree with a PP that at more senior levels and in certain fields, the boss-team relationship is more "first among equals" than paternalistic. When you're all high performing experts in your field, the boss' role is more about providing guidance if you ask, or to pursue an issue for you via other channels if needed, it's a very equal relationship.

Shock horror, I have hugged my boss........ and his boss!

His wife isn't "paranoid". She's correctly deduced that he had no idea how to put healthy boundaries in place with his female colleagues, hence telling you that you're making his wife nervous, she's refusing to take his calls because of you etc.

Or maybe he is testing the water with you?

I’ve been trying to work out why I feel this is in appropriate. For ages. My husband goes out and works away with females. He’s got one female who is so lovely. Very tactile. So the hugs. Dinners etc wouldn’t bother me.

However. (We both own a company now) but when he worked in a company. I’d find it very strange. Because your boss isn’t giving appropriate boundaries. My husband would never of really known about his boss wife. It’s about being appropriate.

@Martinisarebetterdirty

Hugging your boss when drunk/tipsy/sober is rarely appropriate. Drinking alone with your boss is not. It’s unprofessional of you both. I wouldn’t do it with my boss, nor would I do it with my juniors.

Exactly this.

@FlossieTeacakesFurCoat18

His wife isn't "paranoid". She's correctly deduced that he had no idea how to put healthy boundaries in place with his female colleagues, hence telling you that you're making his wife nervous, she's refusing to take his calls because of you etc.

Or maybe he is testing the water with you?

Also the information is coming second-hand, from him.

It could also be that the wife hasn't travelled with her work and experienced the set-up of extended days etc, in which case it would be fairly normal to think "sure, it's perfectly reasonable to eat together and catch up/debrief, that is somewhere between 6pm-8pm after the working day....so why are you now drinking together at 10pm?". Especially if the DH doesn't usually go out to the pub much with other friends or with her.