To have made DH apologise to DS?

[PleaseLetItBeNapTime]

Sorry if this is a bit of a ramble...

I was in the kitchen making dinner. DS(4) has dinner at nursery and isn’t really hungry when he gets home so will just have fruit/ yoghurt/ crisps and be fine. DS decided that he wanted some wotsits. DS is particularly attached to the “rainbow” shaped ones and tends to leave them to the side and eat them last if he eats them at all. We’ve had tears before when he’s accidentally broken one. Rediculous I know, but he is only just 4 and he isn’t generally the sensitive type.

Anyway, DS is in the living room with DH and I hear him crying and he sounds inconsolable. I call him to the kitchen and he tells me “daddy’s eaten my rainbow”. DH follows and his attitude is so self righteous. I asked DH to apologise. He refused and said that DS’s reaction was disproportionate. I said he shouldn’t be eating DS’s crisps without asking. DH continues to refuse to say sorry, saying it’s not a big deal. I did tell DS that DH was being naughty at that point, which on reflection probably wasn’t appropriate. I told DH clearly it was a big deal for DS and he eventually says sorry and goes off in a huff. DS calms down, goes off to play, and is fine.

I asked DH to talk to me about the incident awhile later and he basically told me that he doesn’t believe I should have expected him to apologise to DS. He thinks I was out of line for labelling his behaviour as naughty and he was hurt that following the incident DS said he didn’t want to sit next to him.

I personally think the thought that he shouldn’t have to apologise is a form of toxic parenting - we need to mirror the behaviours we expect from DS and that includes admitting that we are wrong sometimes and apologising. DH has basically ignored me for the rest of the evening and still believes I’m wrong.

So WIBU? I’m genuinely interest to hear from people who think I was who can articulate why because I’m struggling to understand how DH is so firm in his position.

Thanks

I wouldn't have handled it the same.

But what he did was really shit.

4 year olds are entirely entirely capable of nuance. Watch any 4 year old negotiate a sibling relationship versus their school friendship for instance.

My 4 year old knows he can get away with stuff with his doting (and sometimes fed up) big brother that he can’t get away with at home.

It’s also fine to let kids negotiate their way through family ups and downs without creating a drama out of everything (everything IS dramatic when you are four) or minimising their feelings. There is a middle ground. OP chose not to take it.

Sorry can’t get away with at school*.

I mean you want to teach your kids some broad life lessons. Do you want to do that over a single crisp and humiliate your husband (who by OP’s admission isn’t a dickhead otherwise)? I know what my answer would be.

As I said if this was a pattern of behaviour I would see it differently (as I would my DH eating my last barfi at lunch). But as a one off we all need some perspective and nuance and OP was lacking both in her response.

So glad I'm not your child or DH OP...

@nokidshere - that’s a fair analysis.

I don’t completely agree with my husbands style of parenting and I don’t trust him 100% with DS in regards to ensuring his emotional well-being or physical safety (unrelated but he’s done stupid and dangerous things like left him in a bath unsupervised when he was much younger and didn’t understand why I was raging - I don’t think he’s deliberately reckless, just lacking in common sense and childcare experience).

I do interject and take over which he will find undermining. It doesn’t come from a place of wanting to undermine him but DS is generally more settled and better behaved in my care, which makes me feel like my approaches to parenting work better. I can see how I might have escalated matters.

@ChaBishkoot - you seem to have a proper bee in your bonnet over this!

@gahgahgoo - the feeling’s mutual pet.

@Couchbettato

It's not "just a wotsit" though is it.

It's a big bloody man using his authority and power over a tiny little boy to get what he wants, and going the wrong way about it.

Not "Hi son, would you mind if I had a wotsit please?", It's just "I'm going to take what I want without question because I'm bigger and I don't have to answer to any one, not even mummy".

It's made that little boy feel completely unprotected and OP did right by her son.

When a kid cries like it's the worst thing that's ever happened to them, it probably is likely the worst thing that's ever happened to them so treat their responses appropriately, not dismissively.

I'm glad some of you lot aren't my parents.

Christ almighty. Have you never nicked a chip of someone's plate? Put your hand out expectantly when someone's eating a pack of cheese and onion? Not every exchange needs a painstaking contract of consent

When I was 4 my dad used to lick my ice cream (lemon soft serve from the van, absolutely adored it) when my back was turned and leave a big blob of it on his nose so I knew he'd done it. It was funny and made me giggle, but then again I didn't have food obsessions encouraged and validated by my parents at that age.

This is Mumsnet at its most naval gazing finest

He snagged one of his kids wotsits on the way past and we are suddenly at toxic parenting and writing the man off as an evil dickhead.

Brilliant.

Erm. No bee in my bonnet. Just bored and responding on the interwebs to hyperbole from strangers. As are others.
What’s your point?!

Once again, my son is four. He’s only tried recently had wotsits - they’re still a novelty to them for him. He doesn’t not have any weird food issues. He eats a completely normal balanced diet.

I do interject and take over which he will find undermining. It doesn’t come from a place of wanting to undermine him but DS is generally more settled and better behaved in my care, which makes me feel like my approaches to parenting work better. I can see how I might have escalated matters.

Wow.

I’m now giving it about a year before you’re back wondering why he is divorcing you...

Your DH sounds like he's from the Victorian era, when boys were not supposed to cry and Fathers ruled with a rod of iron.

Totally with you on this one. My daughters have been raised in a home where adults don't just take their food without asking if they want to share.
My own mum was the kind of parent who gave you your lunch/crisps/snacks whilst eating bits of it that she wanted first. As a child I felt really out of control and as if my decisions and wants didn't matter (still do around her sometimes!). It is a toxic form of parenting. Always apologise to your child, even for the smallest thing. You don't know how meaningful it is to the child, just because it is small to you.

It's very difficult not to immediately hold your arms out when your child sobs, but children soon become aware of this, and it becomes a pattern.
I'm not saying it is what's happening, but it might be worth considering.

I do think your husband was a bit of an arse, but unless this was regular type of behaviour, I'd let it go.

@DrizzleandDamp You must have some really awful things going on in your life to say something like that.

@OldAndWornOut - definitely worth considering, thank you.

I do interject and take over which he will find undermining. It doesn’t come from a place of wanting to undermine him but DS is generally more settled and better behaved in my care, which makes me feel like my approaches to parenting work better. I can see how I might have escalated matters.

Of course it’s because of your superior approach to parenting, and not at all that your child watches you undermine their dad. For the record, undermining your spouse in front of your child is more damaging to their relationship than him pinching a crisp. Rupture and repair is massively important in relationships, you stepping in to fix it the way you think it should be fixed means your son and his dad never have the opportunity to learn how to work things out between them.

I have thanks. But that’s not why.

I’m deadly serious, you absolutely cannot keep undermining him, actively telling your child he’s “naughty”, presuming and making it bloody clear you think you are the superior parent.

It’s a awful way to treat the father of your child, sending a terrible message to your son about his dad. Of course he’s more settled with you, I assume you are main carer and clearly the one “in charge”, you aren’t letting him find his own way to parent.

You are in serious danger of letting that superiority and what is a clear case of an overthinking (I’m presuming first time) parent dissolve your relationship with your DH.

I do interject and take over which he will find undermining. It doesn’t come from a place of wanting to undermine him but DS is generally more settled and better behaved in my care, which makes me feel like my approaches to parenting work better. I can see how I might have escalated matters.

You aren't alone in this. Lots of parents (mainly women) feel and act the same way. It's very hard to step back and let someone else deal,with it when you know you can console your child instantly. The problem with this is that the other parent doesn't get a chance to build their own relationship with their child and therefore learn their own ways of dealing with everyday small incidents.

And then you end up in the situation of 'DH won't get involved or is useless in the children's lives' scenarios which we see so much of on here.

Try and work on them having their own relationship without you stepping in when you feel you need to (unless extreme danger is involved of course). It's perfectly normal to get parenting wrong some of the time and learning how to deal with those mistakes is part of that.

Is your son an only child ?
Does he spend much time with other kids?

I suppose I'm coming at it from the POV that my brother always helped himself to my stuff and my parents never did anything.

Always said well, it's only X. Don't get your knickers in a twist.

So when I was 16 he took all the vinyl he fancied out of my record collection. And I was really confused where it had gone. And was I imagining it. (I had a fair amount).

Anyway in the end I found my records in his bedroom all over the floor. No sleeves on. Scratched to fuck.

And I know people will say so what it's only records. But music was important to me and I had saved up to buy records. I treasured them.

He's 4 and it was something important to him. The message that it's ok for someone else to take it is a shit message.

Yes I'm resilient. For other reasons. But that as well, it all feeds in. Being stoic in the face of shit is learned yes. It's a stiff upper lip thing.

On the thread about resilience a week or so ago it turned out (unsurprisingly to me) that the people who are most capable of getting the fuck on with it are the ones who learnt young that. No one will look out for you. Pain is normal. Don't make a fuss. Keep it to yourself. Brave face etc.

I mean that was a different thread but. It's about an attitude isn't it.

Anyway. That's how I feel! I wouldn't help myself to food that someone was keeping for last as favourite, family or stranger, child or adult.

You know the advert "daddy or chips"

Can you imagine if the wee girl started sobbing, then the mum told the dad off for being naughty and made him apologise!!

Some of the responses here are bonkers and there is way too much overthinking going on here .

You were right in what you did. Parents should be the first to apologise if they messed up even in the most little way. It's the way kids learn to trust us and feel safe. I do the same thing and expect the same from my husband when I mess up. I actually had to tell my husband to tell me off when I was being slightly rude to my daughter if I was extremely tired. I just think your husband might have felt a little embarrassed. Also men find it hard to say sorry. But they do need to apologise to their kids. Next time say 'ohh no daddy don't eat DS's special wotsits next time..you have your own crisps' and then leave it there...

My FIL does this kind of thing, I do not tolerate it.

If you expect a child to respect your things you must also respect theirs.

In this instance, while your husband may not see the item as high value, it was very high value to your child and he took it when it wasn't his to take.

Yes he should have apologised.

My FIL snatched a toy off my daughter (brand new toy she had just gotten for her birthday not even an hour before) and then refused to give it back when she asked for it, he then got so huffy with her when she got upset and cried that he refused to hug her goodbye after her birthday party.....his reasoning was that she over reacted, it hurt his feelings and embarrassed him and that what he did didn't matter.

My daughter is now 7, almost 8 and the other weekend when we saw my PIL my daughter actually refused to go up to her Pa (who we see regularly) and give him a kiss/cuddle goodbye because he had dirty hands from working in the shed and she didn't trust him not to put the dirt all over her on purpose trying to be funny.

As you can imagine, he was 'hurt' by my daughter's reaction but he has done these things to her and brought it on himself.

These things may seem small but the outcome may be one that your husband may regret.

If he wouldn't take an adults food without asking or apologise if he took something that he didn't realise was important to them then he shouldn't do it to a child either.

@Twistered - only child but is in nursery full time and has been for sometime.

@nokidshere completely true. I need to step back and let him figure things out.