"Professional work clothes" are you f**king kidding me

[Wroxie]

Sorry this is more of a rant than a question because I know I'm not the one BU here.

So I'm a freelancer and about half my income comes from a single client. I do lots of workshops and training sessions on Zoom with them. This morning after a 2 hour workshop I was having a debrief with my main contact and he said 'just one more thing, it would be great if you could reflect the business wear standards we present during these sessions' and I was gobsmacked because - no word of a lie - HE AND I WERE WEARING THE SAME SHIRT. The exact same dark blue and white small-checked button down shirt with the top button undone. I also had on small earrings and a little pearl pendant on a fine chain and my hair was in a tidy bun. I would even venture to say that my shirt was ironed more nicely than his - he's generally sort of rumpled looking at the best of times.

When I was office-based, this was basically my uniform - button-down shirt, smart trousers, sometimes a jacket, nice brogues or maybe nice flats if it was ankle-baring weather. This is now what I wear every day in front of my computer at home except for the shoes. Yes, I even wear the smart work trousers because I often stand up to do something on my whiteboard and I can be seen from the knees up on camera.

The other women at this company (finance, if it matters) tend to wear solid, dark-colour tops with round necklines and maybe a chunky necklace, along with full makeup and blowdried hair. I don't wear makeup at all and my hair is natural (I'm mixed race - half Black, half European) and worn in a curly bob or in a bun depending on where I am in the wash-day cycle. So what it comes down to is that my natural face and hair and my choice of business wear would be ok if I were a man, but since I'm not... different standards. I almost wish I was an actual employee rather than a freelance consultant so I could make this into a WHOLE THING.

As it stands, I just said 'Tony mate you realise we're wearing the same shirt' and he blustered a bit and said something like 'well you just seemed a bit casual Friday today is all I mean' and I just let it drop.

Should I wear my 20+ year old Nirvana T-shirt next meeting yes or no?

@WhatATimeToBeAlive

I'm white with red, curly hair and when I was in my 20s I was told to make my hair look professional by a female HR manager. He's not being racist (nice reach by some PPs), more like curlist.

When black women almost exclusively have the type of hair considered unprofessional, AND there is a long and well documented history of Afro hair being denigrated, shamed and hidden away then yes this is definitely racism.

How about:

Hi Tony

I’ve been reflecting on the comments you made regarding appearance after the workshop. To reiterate, your comments were:

“it would be great if you could reflect the business wear standards we present during these sessions”

“you just seemed a bit casual Friday today is all I mean”

I was wearing (the same bloody shirt as you) and earrings etc and my hair was styled into a bun.

I remain unclear from your comments as to what you are expecting in respect of appearance.

As a freelancer I come across a broad range of dress codes with my clients and have not had any feedback of this nature previously.

Please confirm your expectations, in writing, so there is no scope for ambiguity, misinterpretation or misunderstanding as to what you are specifically referring to in relation to my appearance.”

Then he either digs a massive hole or crawls back into his cave.

I would send him the email @WattleOn suggested to ask him to specify exactly what was wrong with your appearance. In the meantime I wouldn't dress any differently in either way - just stick with your current, perfectly professional look. Don't react to his comment by changing anything. You don't need to.

I have curly hair and am treated MUCH better at work when its straightened. Likewise if I wear some makeup. I think its appalling tbh.

The fucking cheek of him, seriously sexist and probably racist too

I'd definitely ask him for clarification, a copy of the dress code policy and an explanation of how your clothing fails to meet it and exactly what kind of thing he wants women working with his company to wear. Presumably he'll bluster, look embarrassed and instantly realise that he can't actually say how he wants you to look without sounding like a sexist twat.

When black women almost exclusively have the type of hair considered unprofessional, AND there is a long and well documented history of Afro hair being denigrated, shamed and hidden away then yes this is definitely racism.

100%

I worked for Man who looked and acted very much like Donald Trump. He was always telling me to wear heels and more make up. I said I would if he would.

@AryaStarkWolf

When black women almost exclusively have the type of hair considered unprofessional, AND there is a long and well documented history of Afro hair being denigrated, shamed and hidden away then yes this is definitely racism.

100%

No, it's sexism. Were it racism, black men - also with curly hair - would be similarly targeted.

@byebyeboyee

Fuck the patriarch shirt

This 100%

Wear nothing. Nada.

No, it's sexism. Were it racism, black men - also with curly hair - would be similarly targeted.

I don't have stats on it but I would imagine they are? Probably not as much as women because telling women to be attractive seems to be more OK with people

I would email him for clarity about the business dress code. We know he means make up and fresh hair but let him spell it out. But then I can be petty

I'd just keep wearing the same shirt as today and dare him to say something.

Send an email

Hi Tony,

could you clarify what you expect me to wear for training sessions as I will be shopping next week and my accountant needs something in writing so I can claim it as an expense.

thanks

@AryaStarkWolf

No, it's sexism. Were it racism, black men - also with curly hair - would be similarly targeted.

I don't have stats on it but I would imagine they are? Probably not as much as women because telling women to be attractive seems to be more OK with people

Has there really been a case of a black man told his hair must be straightened to look professional?

Women have been told to straighten their hair and remove their curls for centuries - see above extract from 'Jane Eyre'.
Straight combed hair, not a curl visible, even hidden under a veil or scarf. That's a male view of a chaste woman.

Wow, what a knobber.

I'd put money on the fact it won't be mentioned again now you've called him out on it. Not much he can say really, when you're dressed entirely appropriately and able to point it out?

Sadly, I still think in many sectors there is still one rule for men, an entirely separate rule for women, it's fucking ludicrous. Your shirt today has proved it. I work in an almost exclusively male industry, and the sexism around appropriate work clothing used to be ridiculous, although we are SLOWly getting there. We have to wear very specific PPE for entirely logical safety reasons, and for many years it simply didn't exist in female sizes. Despite being 5'4'' and a size 10 (at the time!) I used to have to wear my 6'4'', 17 stone husbands specific hi-vis trousers on site with a very tight belt because having hips and a waist, you physically couldn't get them on if you sized down.

It's only in the past few years that things have changed, but I still get offered bloody pink steel toe capped boots, because 'you're a girl'. Well done, very perceptive, but I'm quite happy with the non-gender specific black ones I've already got, thanks 🙄

Think next time you should wear a ball gown and get your makeup done professionally and way ott just to make a point

Has there really been a case of a black man told his hair must be straightened to look professional?

Not that I can see but straightening your hair is more gender specific, there have been cases where black men have been told to cut their hair though

@AryaStarkWolf

Has there really been a case of a black man told his hair must be straightened to look professional?

Not that I can see but straightening your hair is more gender specific, there have been cases where black men have been told to cut their hair though

Yes, I can remember a few of those . I think some is an excuse for racist targeting, but not all: boys of all races have been told to cut perceived over-long hair. Children in my grandfather's day would be sent to the barber with pen marks on their heads. I can remember our maths teacher ranting about long-haired layabout hippies, too (we'd messed up our simultaneous equations homework).

I would have to ask him exactly what he means. Exactly what about your appearance wasn't professional? I'd need to hear him say the words.

@RonObvious

That’s amazing. Maybe next time wear a tie?

Lol please wear a tie, that has really tickled me.

Echo all pps- makeup and possibly straight hair expected. Sexist and racist. Grr. Love your comeback though!

I almost wish I was an actual employee rather than a freelance consultant so I could make this into a WHOLE THING.

Freelancers, agency workers, consultants etc can all still make claims of discrimination. You don’t have to be an employee

Yes, I can remember a few of those sad. I think some is an excuse for racist targeting, but not all: boys of all races have been told to cut perceived over-long hair. Children in my grandfather's day would be sent to the barber with pen marks on their heads.
I can remember our maths teacher ranting about long-haired layabout hippies, too (we'd messed up our simultaneous equations homework).

I agree with you but I think a black mans hair would be less long to be considered "messy" if you know what I mean?

But on this topic I do also agree the issue is mostly sexist with a sprinkle of racism thrown in

This is really depressing and partly because it’s not the first time I’ve heard a similar story just this week. I agree with the others that it’s probably about make up. I’d be very tempted to go for the full Coco the Clown make up for the next meeting which I know is not a helpful suggestion. Do you think that is his opinion or he’s been told to have a word with you? I can’t believe these conversations are still going on in 2020