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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think Camilla should be queen?

392 replies

Brian9600 · 18/11/2020 17:47

Just interested in people's views. The whole Charles/Diana/Camilla thing was grim but it's also grim that she's the one treated as responsible rather than him. All water under the bridge as far as I'm concerned.

(Obviously some people would get rid of the lot of them, and fair enough.)

Vote YANBU for Queen Camilla
Vote YABU for Never Queen Camilla

OP posts:
PrincessNutNut · 19/11/2020 13:21

To give it some perspective, this was happening around the time Madonna released Papa Don't Preach.

C130 · 19/11/2020 13:23

@Hont1986

Hopefully they just get rid of the whole thing after Elizabeth goes, and we can be rid of having to read or think about them for good.
This.
Farewelltoqualms · 19/11/2020 13:50

It wasn’t money well spent if that’s true, which I very much doubt. I’m a very big Camilla fan but her looks were never and still aren’t anything other than typical of a woman her age. She strikes me as someone who’s secure enough in herself and sufficiently comfortable in her own skin not to care unduly what she looks like. That’s probably a significant part of her appeal to her husband.

It's well documented that she has had expensive cosmetic dental work, skin and hair treatments and made-to-measure clothes (all fair enough if you are going to be in the public eye) but I agree with you that it's her self-confidence (some would call it extreme self-belief ) that is one of her most attractive assets.

My main point though was that Camilla's rehabilitation was orchestrated and paid for (at the cost of £150, 000 a year) by Prince Charles's hiring of Mark Holland PR who was well known in press circles for building up his clients by breaking down the perception of their opponents.

Tom Bower wrote in his biography of Diana ,

"The first hurdle, they agreed, was to demythologise Diana by portraying her as a manipulative hysteric," .

And that demonisation was continued by Charles circle of establishment friends.

Everyone had sucked up these lies without questioning their provenance. To take one fairly anodyne example, if you read any books about Diana, it is evident she played the piano regularly and loved classical music. But it was briefed and repeated over and over in the press that she loved pop music. There are many more sinister examples of the press campaign against her.

Powerful men have discredited their so call "mad" wives for centuries and sadly not much has changed over the years.

lyralalala · 19/11/2020 13:59

@Puzzledandpissedoff

I was talking about the demands of being the direct heir

Ah - I see what you mean Lyra (and yes, that's a very valid point)

I think William, in particular, will be keen on that being as far in the future as possible.

Social media and camera phones are likely to mean his children have even less privacy than his generation have. It'll be much more difficult to strike a deal with the press such as the one struck when he went to St Andrews when the press have people offering photos left, right and centre.

Runnerduck34 · 19/11/2020 14:04

No dont think she should use title of queen, princess consort or just duchess of Cornwall is fine- like the Duke of Edinburgh.
Of course I realise kings can make their wife a queen but queens can't make their husbands kings due to a king being considered more important than queen! Outdated system, think going forward whoever has inherited right should King or Queen and their spouse should be duke or duchess

sashh · 19/11/2020 14:38

King what? Was that an autocorrect fail?

The recordings are still available.

The Russian abdication was, well, inevitable.

Russia was seriously behind the times, they were not even using the Gregorian calendar, which makes reading about events in WWI and the fall of the Romanovs interesting.

The 'court' spoke French and was totally out of touch with normal Russians, the Czar's children were not really educated in anything other than languages.

ILoveYoga · 19/11/2020 14:56

No

WitchesSpelleas · 19/11/2020 16:34

The recordings are still available.

In the interests of balance, for those who obviously aren't old enough to remember Prince Tampon, Diana's 'Squidgygate' recordings are still around too.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 19/11/2020 17:05

Come to think of it, was it ever said where the Tampax Tape recording came from?
All I can find now is that it was "an anonymous source", which seems a bit unlikely as I'd have thought the security services would be all over it

Just wondered if anyone knows ...?

lyralalala · 19/11/2020 17:21

@Puzzledandpissedoff

Come to think of it, was it ever said where the Tampax Tape recording came from? All I can find now is that it was "an anonymous source", which seems a bit unlikely as I'd have thought the security services would be all over it

Just wondered if anyone knows ...?

It never came out, but given that the Squidgey recordings most likely came from Diana's phone line being picked up/bugged around the same time, it probably came from the same place as that.
Farewelltoqualms · 19/11/2020 17:39

The Tampax Tapes were recorded on a bugged phone.

The Sydney Morning Herald reports:

"On the night in question, it is widely acknowledged that Charles was staying at Eaton Hall in Cheshire, the 4400-hectare family estate of one of his closest friends and one of England's wealthiest landowners, the Duke of Westminster.

The minutes from a top secret security meeting held in Whitehall in April 1993 revealed that Lord Fellowes, then the Queen's private secretary, said: ''Evidence had been found that the fixed telephone lines had been tampered with [at Eaton Hall]. It was almost certain that this was the location where the Prince of Wales had been staying on the night of the alleged conversation between him and Mrs Parker Bowles.''

Then cabinet secretary Sir Robin Butler was so alarmed by the phone hacking that he asked the meeting whether all royal premises should be ''swept'' for bugs."

The Wikipedia entry about the Squidgygate tapes is also interesting. In 1993, The Sunday Times published the findings of an analysis of the "Squidgygate" tape, commissioned from Corby-based surveillance specialists Audiotel International.

"Audiotel concluded that the presence of data bursts on the tape was suspicious. Data bursts ("pips" at intervals of approximately 10 seconds, containing information for billing purposes) would normally be filtered out at the exchange before Cellnet transmission. That these "pips" were present at all was therefore anomalous, but they were also too fast, too loud, and exhibited a "low-frequency [audio] 'shadow'," implying "some kind of doctoring of the tape," said Audiotel's managing director, Andrew Martin, in his firm's report. "The balance of probability suggests something irregular about the recording which may indicate a rebroadcasting of the conversation some time after the conversation took place."[9]

"Within a week of the Times's announcement, a further independent analysis was carried out for the same newspaper by John Nelson of Crew Green Consulting, with assistance from Martin Colloms, audio analyst for Sony International. Their analysis demonstrated convincingly that the conversation could not have been recorded by a scanning receiver in the manner claimed by Mr Reenan. Amongst several relevant factors, there was a 50 hertz hum in the background of the "Squidgygate" conversation together with components in the recorded speech with frequencies in excess of 4 kHz. Neither could have passed through the filters of Mr Reenan's Icom receiver or indeed have been transmitted by the cellular telephone system. The 50 Hz hum was consistent with the effect of attempting to record a telephone conversation via a direct tap on a landline."

Turns out Diana had good reason to be "paranoid".

WitchesSpelleas · 19/11/2020 17:40

The recordings were allegedly produced by amateur radio enthusiasts, but in order for the calls to have been picked up by amateur radios, one of the phones involved in each case was probably being tapped (possibly by M15 for security purposes) and it was the tapped signal that was picked up.

Had Camillagate and Squidgygate happened 30 years later, the internet would've imploded with conspiracy theories and memes!

WitchesSpelleas · 19/11/2020 17:41

x-posted with above

Porcupineinwaiting · 19/11/2020 17:47

Compared to almost all of our previous monarchs, Charles' behaviour was pretty tame. Certainly not remarkable . Anyone who thinks our monarchs should set the standards for acceptable behaviour hadnt read much history.

CounsellorTroi · 19/11/2020 17:54

@Porcupineinwaiting

Compared to almost all of our previous monarchs, Charles' behaviour was pretty tame. Certainly not remarkable . Anyone who thinks our monarchs should set the standards for acceptable behaviour hadnt read much history.
Quite. At Edward VII's funeral there was a pew set aside for all his mistresses.
Smallsteps88 · 19/11/2020 18:09

while I'll be very surprised if Charles sees eighty,

Why? Both his parents have lived into their nineties so far, Philip is almost 100. Queen Mother was over 100 when she died. Is he known to be unwell?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 19/11/2020 18:19

Thanks for the "tape information" everyone - it appears, then, they know how but not who
That surprises me again since I'd have thought the RF could find out who sold it to the media, "source condfidentiality" or not

Smallsteps88 it's Charles's often purple complexion and his dreadfully swollen hands which make me wonder about his longevity ... though I've no expertise, which is why it's just a personal view

Farewelltoqualms · 19/11/2020 18:57

@Porcupineinwaiting

Compared to almost all of our previous monarchs, Charles' behaviour was pretty tame. Certainly not remarkable . Anyone who thinks our monarchs should set the standards for acceptable behaviour hadnt read much history.
The difference being that monarchs in the past could have mistresses and only their inner circle would know,. Or if the populace did know, it was deemed "normal" for "distant" aristocrats to behave in that way. Also, (apart from Prince Albert who didn't have a mistress) monarchs in the past didn't present themselves, or allow themselves to be portrayed, as the "ideal" family to whom we should all aspire. I don't think hypocrisy goes down well nowadays. Times have changed and the royal family come under much more scrutiny, and even if the public are understanding of marital ups and downs , they don't appreciate being lied to, especially if they have bought in the "fairytale" wedding myth in the first place.

People forget that when Diana gave her now notorious interview to Bashir, it came as a shock to have all the rumours of adultery , and all the lurid newspaper stories that were circulating at the time, confirmed, as the RF and the establishment had continued to deny and obfuscate about the breakdown of the marriage.

Mittens030869 · 19/11/2020 19:17

* It’s Charles's often purple complexion and his dreadfully swollen hands which make me wonder about his longevity ... though I've no expertise, which is why it's just a personal view*

He had a very mild case of Covid, though, despite being 71 (unlike Boris Johnson, who was seriously ill with it at the same time), which suggests to me that he must be pretty healthy.

Farewelltoqualms · 19/11/2020 19:34

Thanks for the "tape information" everyone - it appears, then, they know how but not who
That surprises me again since I'd have thought the RF could find out who sold it to the media, "source condfidentiality" or not

Yes it is all rather odd. I may have got this wrong but I thought Ken Wharfe stated at Diana's inquest that he believed the squidgy tapes were recorded by GCHQ. And now he is saying in various newspapers that he knew Bashir's claims of bugging (and other more outrageous stories) were patently ludicrous and damaging. (Obviously forged bills were in reality very damaging.) I'm confused!

CoronaIsWatching · 19/11/2020 19:54

*Seriously? Do you know that The Crown is a TV drama and not a documentary?!?!

I like watching the Crown. However, I'm not sure The Crown should be held up as a historical accurate documentary of what happened within the Royal family. hmm

Please say this post was a sarcastic one, or a joke post*

Presumably you're aware that history documentaries and history books all have their own bias regarding the writers or authors own personal view and target audience.

There's literally no such thing as a historically accurate documentary or history book. The Crown is just as good as it still draws on primary sources in crafting its story in the same way as any book or other tv show

Quaagars · 19/11/2020 20:13

A vote for YABU and never.

WindblowingSW · 19/11/2020 20:35

@Porcupineinwaiting

Compared to almost all of our previous monarchs, Charles' behaviour was pretty tame. Certainly not remarkable . Anyone who thinks our monarchs should set the standards for acceptable behaviour hadnt read much history.
Watch the Princess Diana Secret Tapes -from the first one.

What that 18 year old child faced from a older predator who knew what he was doing .................
I use predator is the sense she was in love with him and he was awful to her -once she said yes. Camilla and Charles -never stopped according to Diana -and she would be the one in the know. Telling her "no matter what happens I will love you" before their engagement (Charles and Diana) -Diana overheard. One the yacht -pictures of Camilla fell out of her diary and he took 8 volumes of english literature to read and ignored her on honeymoon -bastard.

nancybotwinbloom · 19/11/2020 20:40

No absolutely not.

If she is it makes a mockery of their image.
I care not one way it the other.

But, if she is made Queen I think there will be public uproar.

She was an affair. Regardless of where they are now.

RustyBear · 19/11/2020 20:43

There's literally no such thing as a historically accurate documentary or history book. The Crown is just as good as it still draws on primary sources in crafting its story in the same way as any book or other tv show

It may 'draw on' primary sources, but it rather obviously doesn't actually use them, especially when it comes to dates. It moves events around to increase the drama - for example it pretended that Margaret Thatcher was distracted from coping with the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait because her son was missing in the desert - which had actually happened months before.