To ask why children and teens have such bad mental health? (pre-pandemic)

[peepeelongstocking]

Surely there must be something massively wrong in society, but what is it? I’m inclined to think it’s social media (screens as a whole really), and a lack of prospects for the future (due to high house prices and lack of jobs). Surely there must be more to it though.

I know we’re diagnosing MH issues much more, but it’s rare that you’d find an older person who remembers feeling suicidal during their teen years for example. That seems to be more or less standard now.

I’d love to know what others think it is!

how many parents on mn are reading this and thinking 'am i /we setting our dc up for this shite in the future or it won't happen to my dc' ?

@NotaKaren

I think predicted grades are fine if they are predicted using how they are currently working. Ds target grades are from his year 6 SATs results. He had an incredibly good day and because of this his targets are 9s and 8s. Even his maths teachers have said he's not a grade 9 student but he still has that as his target so on the front of books, discussed by teachers in the class, reports etc. It was frankly soul destroying for him

I’m sure there some research suggesting that the mental health of teens and young people had improved by not being at school during lockdown. I don’t think that was everyone’s experience though, I know some people who feel their children’s mental health really suffered.

MillieEpple thank you and all the best to you and your son too x

I've also begun to think that schools introduce really difficult topics far too young, particularly around exploitation in relation to history and social studies and justice topics.

I'm not at all advocating this stuff isn't ouched on at all, but there seems to be an idea that kids of any age will be fine learning about some of the most awful abuses and injustices, and also that if they aren't introduced until later, somehow you will have missed a window and the children won't accept the ideas.

I've always been inclined to be careful about this, as when I was young I know I picked up some very odd ideas from my schools teaching on racism, that clearly were not what they were trying to say. But it's made me aware that the way children understand things is not always the way adults think they do.

But watching my own kids and the kids that I teach has convinced me even more that certain social concepts are not fully understood by them even if they can parrot back the words and seem to understand, and that they find them quite stressful as well.

Really interesting thread. I think youngsters grow up way too quickly. My kids are 8 and 6. We're lucky enough to live on a farm. When they have friends over for the first time the friends are often openIy surprised at our lack of toys and tech.

3 hours of poking about in a field/den/ditch/wood with a stick getting muddy as you like with a bit of squash and a biscuit and I'm yet to see a child leave without a beaming smile and a later text from a parent saying how much. Fun. They had.

I often fall into the trap of thinking I have to fill my kids days. They're happiest times though are the days where they play for hours on end or they've been so bored their imaginations kick in.

I think a lot more fresh air, exercise, healthy food an purposeful work is needed in all our live s

Very interesting! Although I feel like (this might be completely wrong) the suicides that do occur are less the upper age brackets, and increasingly younger, which is the worrying thing.

@peepeelongstocking, whether you feel it or not, it's not borne out by the data. You can download suicide rates by age group since 1981 from the Office of National Statistics here: www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/suicidesintheunitedkingdomreferencetables. It's an Excel spreadsheet so it's easy enough to create your own graphs from the data. I've attached a graph for the 10-24 age groups, 1981 to 2019. Rates were highest around 1989 (when I was a teenager). Then it went down and has risen again, though hasn't reached the same levels. When the 2019 figures were released, some MH charities put out press releases about a big rise over the last decade but the longer term view puts that into perspective.

@Goosefoot unfortunately you're being very naive.
Again, using my lived experience, DD was a school mentor looking after a young transgender student, taking them under her wing, she was also sewing scrubs whilst working and studying.
Also, how much free time do you think teenagers have these days what with studying over 11 subjects at GCSE and ask the homework/ projects involved with that?
Neither of my DC spend any time in social media.
DS attended school when still taking a huge dose of painkillers for the past operative pain he was in and neither of my DC ever had or wanted to stay home with coughs colds etc, because they wanted to keep up with their work at school.
We have conversations all the time about the difficulties we faced growing up, how things have changed and the difficulties faced by youngsters today. They don't lack historical perspective and were fortunate to spend time listening to their 92 year old Grandmother before we lost her 2 years ago, giving them many different perspectives on life.
We also don't shy away from difficult conversations, none trickier than discussing trans issues and feminist issues with my gay daughter!
We don't pander we treat them with the love and respect the deserve.
You seem to think young people with mental health issues are weak, I can honestly say my DC aren't weak, they just don't feel 'worthy' enough, no matter what they do they feel it isn't enough.
This is an internal struggle, you wouldn't know if you met them, they put in a 'face for other people.
I wouldn't want my worst enemy to watch their children disintegrate the way mine do on occasion and I hope you get to stay naive and not have to face the reality, because the reality is so fucking hard EVERY day.

[quote Hollybollybingbong]@Goosefoot unfortunately you're being very naive.
Again, using my lived experience, DD was a school mentor looking after a young transgender student, taking them under her wing, she was also sewing scrubs whilst working and studying.
Also, how much free time do you think teenagers have these days what with studying over 11 subjects at GCSE and ask the homework/ projects involved with that?
Neither of my DC spend any time in social media.
DS attended school when still taking a huge dose of painkillers for the past operative pain he was in and neither of my DC ever had or wanted to stay home with coughs colds etc, because they wanted to keep up with their work at school.
We have conversations all the time about the difficulties we faced growing up, how things have changed and the difficulties faced by youngsters today. They don't lack historical perspective and were fortunate to spend time listening to their 92 year old Grandmother before we lost her 2 years ago, giving them many different perspectives on life.
We also don't shy away from difficult conversations, none trickier than discussing trans issues and feminist issues with my gay daughter!
We don't pander we treat them with the love and respect the deserve.
You seem to think young people with mental health issues are weak, I can honestly say my DC aren't weak, they just don't feel 'worthy' enough, no matter what they do they feel it isn't enough.
This is an internal struggle, you wouldn't know if you met them, they put in a 'face for other people.
I wouldn't want my worst enemy to watch their children disintegrate the way mine do on occasion and I hope you get to stay naive and not have to face the reality, because the reality is so fucking hard EVERY day.[/quote]
I'm not all that clear what I've said that you object to, but you might want to consider that your children aren't representative. Nor do you know anything about my children, my family, or the people I spend my time with.

The school mentality of We are All Winners. Resilience is not taught properly. At home and at school. Parents’ expectations are huge, certainly in the London day school world. It starts at 2, getting into the nest. It series, then the assessment at 3 for prep school. Then you have the fierce competition at 11+. I totally get why London kids’ mental health is shot.

*best nursery

@Goosefoot I'd agree social media, and too much time not doing real things which is the corollary to that.

Also not enough independence, starting right from childhood, along with too much adult material and to o much pressure.

Shitty education that leaves them with poor thinking skills and no historical perspective.

The message, again and again, that things that make them uncomfortable are damaging makes them less resilient.

No sense of meaning, little sense of deep connection to meaning, to nature, to others, to the community. They have these things in a very superficial way but it's like an all-sugar diet - immediately satisfying but doesn't build muscle.

As you say, my children might not be representative OR there are MANY children just like mine who don't fit into the lazy stereotypes of 1. Too much social media 2. No resilience 3. Poor thinking skills 4. No deep connection to people or things.
The danger of stereotypes is that when people don't exhibit them they slip through the net, much like my children and many others on this thread.
But I also genuinely hope you don't or aren't going through this, it wasn't a dig it was a hope and I'm honestly sorry if you thought otherwise.

I think that teenagers also often had poor mental health in the past, but this was often not recognized, and was stigmatized so not discussed.

Of my own classmates, at least one took their own life; another developed a serious eating disorder which ended up shortening their life; another became a seriously disturbed adult who eventually committed a serious crime. None of these was recognized as having mental health problems until too late.

I do think that one contributory factor that exacerbates adolescent mental health problems is that adolescence lasts much longer than in the past. Puberty begins earlier, and economic independence begins much later

Ahhhh that old bullshit ‘lack of resilience’.

1)People struggling with MH have resilience in spades.

2. Unless you have MH issues or dc with them you aren’t qualified to post.Smug accusations and theories are just that and not based on reality or experience.

3. The U.K. is not just mc London . The maj of us live elsewhere and aren’t pushing to get into any prep school let alone the best ones.

Do posters not realise that poor mental health manifests itself in kids in a variety of ways and for a variety of reasons.

The world as a whole.

It's just so depressing.

@Figr011

Ahhhh that old bullshit ‘lack of resilience’.

1)People struggling with MH have resilience in spades.

2. Unless you have MH issues or dc with them you aren’t qualified to post.Smug accusations and theories are just that and not based on reality or experience.

3. The U.K. is not just mc London . The maj of us live elsewhere and aren’t pushing to get into any prep school let alone the best ones.

I honestly don't think most of these posters know what resilience actually is/means. It's just the new buzzword and stick to beat people up with.

Because of ageism - constantly being told they are lazy, that their exams results aren't real because exams were so much harder in the past, that they are rude and inconsiderate, being blamed for things they have no control over, being told their interests are stupid, the media making up stories about them and then adults using those stories as a stick to beat the young with, being told they aren't trying hard enough even though it's obvious that the education/housing/job systems are rigged against them, etc etc. Plus with the added bonus of their parents documenting their lives on social media.
They get demonised for the most ridiculous bullshit, and then everyone else acts shocked when the kids get depressed.

Who said it's a new thing?

I'm going n my late 30s, I had poor mental health as a child and teen, no one really took any notice, I made a suicide attempt it was swept under the rug.

My father who is late 60s had poor mental health as a teen, no one knew or cared.Plenty of the boomer generation have mental health issues, addiction, substance misuse.

Maybe it's simply talked about more now.

I've asked my 15 yr old teen. His short answer: they can't adapt. to survive you need to adapt. They want the world to adapt to them as they are used to seeing that from their parents.

He's not the most socially emphatic person, but i think he has a point.

In the 80s/90s kids with real MH issues had real life issues causing it: abuse, neglect, rape,.... mostly.

Nowadays: MH issues on how someone looked at you or called you black instead of whatever is the now correct pc term... these are irrelevant and should be dealt with within seconds.

Btw... just look around MN how many people are starting threads on being offended by a slogan on a mask, or by neighbour looking funny,...etc...
What do you think their kids are like?

@TheSunIsStillShining

I've asked my 15 yr old teen. His short answer: they can't adapt. to survive you need to adapt. They want the world to adapt to them as they are used to seeing that from their parents.

He's not the most socially emphatic person, but i think he has a point.

In the 80s/90s kids with real MH issues had real life issues causing it: abuse, neglect, rape,.... mostly.

Nowadays: MH issues on how someone looked at you or called you black instead of whatever is the now correct pc term... these are irrelevant and should be dealt with within seconds.

Btw... just look around MN how many people are starting threads on being offended by a slogan on a mask, or by neighbour looking funny,...etc...
What do you think their kids are like?

Wow a whole hodge podge of ignorance bingo there. I can see where your son gets it from.

Undiagnosed Autism masking
Issues with sexual identity
Lack of CAMHS support and parent blaming
Bullying
Social media
School expectation

Nowadays: MH issues on how someone looked at you or called you black instead of whatever is the now correct pc term... these are irrelevant and should be dealt with within seconds.

Okay, except abuse, neglect and rape all affect and will continue to affect this generation. There's a societal change in culture, but the shitty things that happened in older gens are still happening.

Agree with fraughtwithgin

Over-stimulation from birth
To many extra-curricular activities, not enough "down time
Too much technology, pressure to "compete", social media
News and information 24/7. You cannot process all of this and most of it is gratuitous
Enormous emphasis on appearance
Never being allowed to "fail", so never learning to deal with disappointment. Inflated expectations - not everyone can be a brain surgeon, yet flooding the tertiary education sector with students has both devalued the system and raised people's expectations of what they are "worth".

Also as a teacher I find the target grades quite harsh for bright students. They are always under performing because the targets are so high. It must be soul destroying to see 'red' boxes on your report when you have for example a load of grade 6/7 at GCSE. Just because you're bright/did well in SATS you're supposed to be getting grade 8/9....

We need to place less emphasis on exams and more on getting a job in the real world. Respect those jobs where you don't need a load of high grades. Don't make children feel anxious because they're not able to get top grades (and keep them back for extra lessons/booster classes)