To ask why children and teens have such bad mental health? (pre-pandemic)

[peepeelongstocking]

Surely there must be something massively wrong in society, but what is it? I’m inclined to think it’s social media (screens as a whole really), and a lack of prospects for the future (due to high house prices and lack of jobs). Surely there must be more to it though.

I know we’re diagnosing MH issues much more, but it’s rare that you’d find an older person who remembers feeling suicidal during their teen years for example. That seems to be more or less standard now.

I’d love to know what others think it is!

@FraughtwithGin

Over-stimulation from birth. To many extra-curricular activities, not enough "down time". Too much technology, pressure to "compete", social media. News and information 24/7. You cannot process all of this and most of it is gratuitous. Enormous emphasis on appearance. Never being allowed to "fail", so never learning to deal with disappointment. Inflated expectations - not everyone can be a brain surgeon, yet flooding the tertiary education sector with students has both devalued the system and raised people's expectations of what they are "worth".

I agree with that. Children are no longer allowed to be bored. Parents fill every moment of the day with activities- when boredom is actually the foundation of imagination. I think that as children and young people are so used to having everything done/being constantly entertained they are not used to thinking and forming their own thoughts. They are then scared or offended by the real world as they have been so cosseted, which then leads to negative mental health.

@Goosefoot

I'd agree social media, and too much time not doing real things which is the corollary to that.

Also not enough independence, starting right from childhood, along with too much adult material and to o much pressure.

Shitty education that leaves them with poor thinking skills and no historical perspective.

The message, again and again, that things that make them uncomfortable are damaging makes them less resilient.

No sense of meaning, little sense of deep connection to meaning, to nature, to others, to the community. They have these things in a very superficial way but it's like an all-sugar diet - immediately satisfying but doesn't build muscle.

Totally agree and I think it affects their concentration

A lack of general knowledge in some

Interesting thread. I suffered terribly with anxiety/worries as a teen but it was balanced out with a stable home and downtime with activities (I loved art and had a horse). I can only imagine how difficult it must be growing up in this generation.

My DD has the same traits as me and can be anxious at times and I do worry that our society and world now will exacerbate this and she will end up with MH problems. I’m sorry for anyone going through this with their DC.

The message, again and again, that things that make them uncomfortable are damaging makes them less resilient.

Posted too soon. I am struggling to understand who is giving children this message? Schools, parents? What does it even mean? There's a wide range of things that make us feel uncomfortable, they vary in seriousness, some will damage some people but will not affect others. I am seeing a lot of comments on here that seem to confuse positive support with mollycoddling.
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@FraughtwithGin

Over-stimulation from birth. To many extra-curricular activities, not enough "down time". Too much technology, pressure to "compete", social media. News and information 24/7. You cannot process all of this and most of it is gratuitous. Enormous emphasis on appearance. Never being allowed to "fail", so never learning to deal with disappointment. Inflated expectations - not everyone can be a brain surgeon, yet flooding the tertiary education sector with students has both devalued the system and raised people's expectations of what they are "worth".

what she said

[quote Hollybollybingbong]@Goosefoot I'd agree social media, and too much time not doing real things which is the corollary to that.

Also not enough independence, starting right from childhood, along with too much adult material and to o much pressure.

Shitty education that leaves them with poor thinking skills and no historical perspective.

The message, again and again, that things that make them uncomfortable are damaging makes them less resilient.

No sense of meaning, little sense of deep connection to meaning, to nature, to others, to the community. They have these things in a very superficial way but it's like an all-sugar diet - immediately satisfying but doesn't build muscle.

As you say, my children might not be representative OR there are MANY children just like mine who don't fit into the lazy stereotypes of 1. Too much social media 2. No resilience 3. Poor thinking skills 4. No deep connection to people or things.
The danger of stereotypes is that when people don't exhibit them they slip through the net, much like my children and many others on this thread.
But I also genuinely hope you don't or aren't going through this, it wasn't a dig it was a hope and I'm honestly sorry if you thought otherwise. [/quote]
You don't really seem to have understood my post. I am not suggesting every child has these experiences. I am talking about the population as a whole and various changes in thinking about things like childcare and education.

Most people are fairly aware of the fact that the ability of children to be independent and out of the parental gae has changed pretty significantly that social media is something many children spend multiple hours daily on and have problems around, like bulling; they may be less aware of how education has changed but as an educator I find myself in the middle of that. They may also be less aware of the way young people are struggling with meaning and disconnection, but again it's something I see pretty regularly, and if you talk to educators in universities they will tell you it's something of an epidemic.

I'm sure your children have none of these issues but that's not really relevant.

People didn’t talk about mental health so much in the past. It was largely ignored , from my experience. I was a depressed teen in the 80s. I had a terrible childhood and I didn’t see a way out. I often thought about walking into the sea and not walking back out. I haven’t suffered any form of depression since leaving home at 18 and going to uni, getting a job and being independent from my narcissistic mother (who did not mothering whatsoever). Unfortunately a lot of other reasons nowadays for mental health issues to add to the mix, but there were plenty back in the day. Go back 100 years and anyone with mental health issues was locked away.

everything @FraughtwithGin said

Going by what I see on forums which I notice more that in real life is overbearing parents - I can't imagine our parents doing this much deep thought into every single aspect of everything (that is a compliment to them) and how many parents on forums talk about themselves having 'issues' (their use of the word) of course kids will pick up on their issues

@CarterBeatsTheDevil

Posted too soon. I am struggling to understand who is giving children this message? Schools, parents? What does it even mean? There's a wide range of things that make us feel uncomfortable, they vary in seriousness, some will damage some people but will not affect others. I am seeing a lot of comments on here that seem to confuse positive support with mollycoddling. .

It basically means that when a person has feelings of not fitting in, or feeling offended, or an idea makes them uncomfortable because it goes against what they believe to be right, they feel they don't like their body - instead of being interpreted as probably normal, it's pathologies.

In part it's a downside of the effort to make mental health issues more well known. It's also in part the result of the continuous message that making people upset is a kind of attack or violence. That the most important thing is to be kind, even if we have to void speaking the truth.

If we go back farther, I think it relates to a significant change in parenting where it's seen as really important to avoid kids becoming upset. This is a big feature of AP parenting which properly speaking belongs to the baby phase but a whole of a lot of parents take it way farther than that. Kids who don't have much experience of real mental discomfort tend to see small problems as much more serious than they are.

Preschool childcare outside of the family.

Domestic violence.

I used to teach kids that were 16/17/18 and they really felt the pressure of social media. Especially the girls, made them feel they cant compete.

I'm late 20s so when I was a teenager we did have MSN and built our own websites. This meant you could get anonymous nasty comments from people from schoolwork without knowing who they really were. That wasnt nice but nothing like today imo. I think it was must be tough growing up now.

I was in high school in the 1990s, but there was a lot of self harming, a lot of binge drinking, a lot of drugs and a lot of violence. It wasn’t any better than it is now, just different. In fact, I think kids are actually kinder and more altruistic than they were when I was a kid.

Perhaps that empathy and focus on big picture issues makes anxiety and depression more likely because they worry more about insurmountable issues.

There’s also a lot more competition. When I was at school, the expectation was that you’d work for the council, or be an estate agent, or work in a car showroom. People weren’t expecting to be entrepreneurs or the next big thing in tech. We only expected about 10-15% of our school year to go on to uni, and that was about what it was. Social media definitely has a part in this. I’m so glad it wasn’t around when I was at school. I noticed recently that 13-16 year old girls never make terrible makeup errors and always look immaculate these days. Surely it’s a rite of passage to experiment with blue glittery eyeshadow and go through an awkward phase?! Thanks YouTube!

@comebacksinging

As a teen...

The school system plays a huge role. From year 9 onwards we had it drilled into us that GCSEs are the be-all and end-all, that we should have revision timetables that we must stick to religiously, that as we near exam season the rest of our lives must go out of the window in favour of revision. Some GCSE students have eight or nine subjects to be studied in-depth, and we are told that our future depends on the outcome of those four intense weeks of grilling - no room for off-days. And it's even worse at A-Level, despite there only being three or four subjects!

Many of my friends also have unhealthy home lives. Whether it's caring for younger siblings, enduring intense pressure from competitive parents or other troubles, they are still expected to push all of that aside and give their all to their studies, every day.

Peer pressure is another problem, although that of course varies depending on who you associate with.

I could go on, and perhaps I will later. For now, better get back to revision

I agree I’d say the education system and the pressure that is put on kids to perform - it’s relentless. Social media has little impact amongst my teen’s life or their friends, it’s exams exams exams and the feeling that if you don’t do well your life will be ruined and I do blame the school for that message.

There is so much rubbish being posted on here by posters unqualified to post it’s laughable.

Overbearing parents- overbearing means harshly dominant. AParenting is the opposite( and actually not that common in its extreme form). So which is it oh wise parents who don’t have children battling mental health?

I teach 16-19 year olds and the exam pressure is much worse since the government got rid of the modular exam system ( thank you Michael Gove). It is now all or nothing at the end of two years. I know that was the case when I took my A levels but the pressure on teachers and students was also much less then - or it seemed so to me anyway. Because there is so much pressure on teachers we pass on that to students - I try not to but ultimately we all want the students to succeed and the only way to do that is to work really hard.

I agree @Figr011 , I worked in school as a TA for 12 years and attended much CPD training alongside the teachers and can assure you that a half day session on mental health does not trump years of experience dealing with mental health issues in the home.
It's the teachers who think it does that are dangerous, even with a detailed account of the reality of the situation one arrogant teacher (I actually really respect teachers but some ARE crap) has decided my children are rare as unicorns and therefore should be ignored whilst they peddle their stereotypical claptrap. Well it is much easier than treating students as individuals and actually speaking to them.
I would advise the ignorant masses to read The Boy Between by Amanda Prowse, truly heart wrenching and real.
There are children in classes right now, sat in front of teachers, on a relentless treadmill of trying to please their teacher in a system that prevents that from happening, never feeling good enough.
If they're sat in front of GooseFoot they will drown under the pressure because they're too 'rare' to identify or support.

Parents pandering to their every need. Here is a small example.
Parent buys 6 of the exact same teddy so that if one ever goes missing they can bring out a replacement. Child never goes through the distress of losing beloved teddy. This would be a great learning opportunity on how to deal with the problem, manage emotions etc.
If kids aren't allowed to feel their feelings then they won't be able to cope when the parent is no longer around to manage the emotions/situation for them.
This happens all the time with parents involving themselves in friendship issues at school or removing their kids from sats. (You going to remove your kids from GCSEs too?)

I truly think it’s a combination of Social Media (Instagram and you tubers with perfect lives, going on holidays, big houses, newest gadgets without seemingly working for it) and instant gratification

When I was a child, (I’m only 28)- quite often if you wanted something you’d have to wait for it, whether that be birthday and Christmas and i came from a middle class family in a middle class area yet nobody seemed to have everything. With Amazon, and the internet, nobody waits for anything and it’s constantly onto the next.

@happylittlechick

Parents pandering to their every need. Here is a small example. Parent buys 6 of the exact same teddy so that if one ever goes missing they can bring out a replacement. Child never goes through the distress of losing beloved teddy. This would be a great learning opportunity on how to deal with the problem, manage emotions etc. If kids aren't allowed to feel their feelings then they won't be able to cope when the parent is no longer around to manage the emotions/situation for them. This happens all the time with parents involving themselves in friendship issues at school or removing their kids from sats. (You going to remove your kids from GCSEs too?)

We bought 3 identical teddies for our kids - they were emotionally attached to all of them 😂(if they lost one having the other 2 did not make up for it! They gave them all names and were insistent that they were all different - I wonder had it anything to do with them being twins - we're all individuals!

@Macncheeseballs

This subject is addressed in 'the social dilemma' documentary

Oh, my Goodness, DH and I watched this last night. It is a must watch for all of us, esp those with children and teens

www.cinemablend.com/news/2555346/what-is-the-social-dilemma-things-to-know-about-the-netflix-documentary-before-you-watch

I agree with all of the above: instant gratification, no coping skills, molly coddled

As for older people being suicidal as teens: I don't know if I count as older. I am late 30s.

As a teenager I felt suicidal through a significant portion of my teens. I was very much depressed.

In that era, 1990s no one really took it seriously and you were told to pull yourself together and get on with it

Having said that my teens were awful. I had a sibling who was abusive to me. Parents who were dismissive and didnt care. They effectively stopped parenting me at about 14 and expected me to get on with it. No help with school work, didn't ask how I was, only cared about how my behaviour affected them.

My depression was there for a reason and that reason was a terrible life. I wasn't depressed because I was well cared for and a room full of electronic gadgets and I was upset about something a friend said or did on Instagram.

You look at the education forums full of parents of adults choosing their courses and loosing their shit over it and helping them prepare.

I was left to it. I dont think that degree of involvement is necessary or helpful to an adult on their way out to university

I do wonder if a pull yourself together approach would work better for such kids.

My lifelong mental health problems, which were dreadful in my teens, are most definitely the result of shit and abusive parenting. Social media might have helped, as I would have been more likely to discover I was depressed and what to do about it, rather than being limited to my family telling me that the problem was that I was irrational, insane and didn't know how fucking good I had it. I had friends, but too many of them were in exactly the same position, worse even. None of us had diagnoses.

Fascinating! One question by OP has created so many social scientists!

Then some posters came in to spoil it with data. But generally, they failed - who needs the facts when we have opinions screaming in our heads