AIBU to not let the father of my child take her abroad once a month?

[tuesdayschild17]

My daughter was unplanned with a partner who I had not been seeing for long. When I found out about her, I informed him and gave him the option to walk away. We did not stay seeing each other romantically after this time.

He chose to be involved in her life and has his name on her birth certificate (allowing him joint parental responsibility). She is nearly 4 now and he has seen her throughout this time with various levels of consistency. His family live abroad and also wish to be involved. I have done everything I can so far to facilitate contact, allowing them to stay in our house and look after her for weekends occasionally and letting her go on holiday to their country with and without me.

However, there have been large gaps in between him/them seeing her where he has been bad with contact. He has either been struggling with addiction issues or just unwilling to be around during these times. I have tried to still remain understanding, believing that it would be best for my daughter to maintain a relationship with him. Unfortunately, after she spent a week away from me in the Summer with his family abroad, I started to reconsider this. Her behaviour was really unsettled when she got back. She suddenly threw more and more tantrums and wouldn't eat properly. The nursery separately commented on a big change in her behaviour and asked if she was unhappy. I felt that this was a result of the change in circumstances and being away from her home at such a young age. Obviously the typical 'we don't have to raise her, so we can say yes to everything' came into play too.

Initially, I was raising her with substantial help from my own mother in terms of costs/childcare. However, since the beginning of this year, I have been doing it solo as a student and with a part-time income. Her father has a well-paid full-time job. Prior to September, I had never asked him for financial support as I didn't want to scare him away from a relationship with her. However, the financial strain of raising her single meant that in September, I asked him to begin contributing. We are struggling to come to an agreement.

As part of his side of the bargain, he wants me to agree to her travelling abroad once a month for a weekend to stay with his family. I am unwilling to do this because I feel it would be really unsettling for my daughter and cause more problems with her behaviour. I have agreed to give him access every other Sunday though, (which is the most regular he wants), as he does have a residence that he's renting and living in near where we live. AIBU to say that I will not agree to her travelling abroad and being away from me overnight, once a month while she is so young? (travel time would be around 5/6hrs each way). He Is threatening me with court, do you think a court would force me to allow this?

Any advice appreciated and sorry for the lengthy post.

He sounds a bit like my ex. I would predict he won't reply at all as he knows it will do your head in. Then he may not show up on Sunday. But then he possibly will write to you demanding even more unreasonable things. I would refrain from contacting him again until he contacts you and if/when he does just be a broken record don't get sucked into his parallel universe. Hold strong and remember you are doing the right thing in protecting her and putting her first. Try not to obsess over how he might respond and find ways to distract yourself. I know it is incredibly hard to do it all on your own as I have been there (still am). Your daughter will recognise this more and more as she grows up and you will be close because of it. You get back what you put in with kids but it takes years to realise this.

I missed the bit about the parenting plan! Why on earth is he expecting you to sign a pack of lies. Actually expecting you to sign anything at all, even if it was all true is completely overstepping the mark. It is a form of control and, really, who does he think he is?

You have contacted him now to say your expectations. They are perfectly reasonable. He either replies to you or does not, he either shows up on Sunday or does not, but try and put is out of your mind until you hear from him. The one thing you now have control over is your CMS application. They will award you maintenance entirely based on his earnings with no conditions attached. He has had 4 years to offer money voluntarily, and he has failed to do so. The CMS exists for precisely this reason.

In terms of potential for going to court, it might happen, it might not. But your ex has such an overinflated idea of his own importance that he doesn't realise he is just another flakey unreliable dad. The courts will have seen his type many times before!

No back pay, any payment due starts from date of application.

Can you say which nationality he is? I absolutely would not agree to him taking my child out of the country ever, have to seem too many horror stories of fathers not bringing the child back.

I also would not have put him on the birth certificate.

I think you need legal advice op, I would go through the usual channels to get maintenance and contact should be agreed in court.

I raised my dd completely solo so I know how knackering it is but don't be naive about this man.

He's unlikely to break the law you say? Didn't you mention he has an addiction? Sounds like he's bluffing to me. You need to do what you know is best for your daughter whatever that means. Let him take you to court. He isn't sounding reasonable to me.

@girlywhirly I'm not planning on signing any document he provides me with. However, I have put in writing that I'm prepared to continue the Sunday daytime visits in order to show that I've never prevented access.

@ScabbyHorse I wish I wasn't such a control freak and keen for a response but you're so right that his late replies are calculated to frustrate me. I'm not planning on having any more email exchanges with him for the moment and will make sure I'm fully prepared for him to not show up on Sunday. I don't think I'll tell my daughter about the visit unless I get text confirmation from him that he's on his way on Sunday. Sorry you've been through this too! And thanks for the kind words :)

@CecilyP I really hope that if it does end up in court that they will see him for what he is. Both him and his family are deluded about his level of input but fortunately I do have enough evidence of his inconsistency. He's one of those self-righteous people who almost believes his own lies, and I'm therefore more worried that his confidence/arrogance will come off as having a genuine basis.

@Lizadork thank you! Good to know.

@Girliefriendlikespuppies Unfortunately, I don't think I would have a legal standing for denying him access completely. It's definitely something I've considered though. I'm trying to ensure that instead he has shorter regular visits with my DD that mean I won't be told I've prevented access in court, which could go against me and allow him more time with her. If he doesn't keep to this arrangement from this point though, I would have a stronger case in court for no access at all. I regret putting him on the birth certificate very much but I was persuaded by family members that my daughter would feel sad when older if I had left that line blank and he was keen to register her together. I will definitely get legal advice. Equally, I don't plan to concede anything that won't work for DD just on the basis that I'd like some time off. I am very set in the fact that I will only agree to visits that are beneficial/pleasurable for her. I've tried to take my own feelings/tiredness out of the equation completely. I was definitely naive previously though!

@chocolateorangelover He is a recovering addict technically at the moment and has been sober for just under a year. He was always a functioning addict (not that this makes it any better). However, I feel like a judge might look favourably upon his efforts since, frustratingly. I am now very prepared to go to court to prevent abroad trips and will do my upmost to get the best outcome for DD.

@tuesdayschild17 I self represented so costs don't have to be an issue. I would say for a child of 4 that every alternate weekend and a night mid week would be more in line for her age. It is also a fathers legal obligation to contribute to a child regardless of whether or not he sees her.

@namechange20202020 Great to hear from someone who has represented themselves! The reason I'm reluctant for overnights at the moment, is because he is yet to have demonstrated a period of more than a few weeks of regular contact with her, throughout her life. Also, he is living with strangers in a flatshare and I don't feel that's appropriate for her/would make her comfortable. He's also seemingly implied that he doesn't really want her overnight unless he can take her abroad to stay with his parents.

There’s no back pay.

christ OP... he's a piece of work 🌺

Just thinking out loud, has she never stayed with him overnight in the UK? If so she went from seeing him on two separate occasions in a month to spending a whole week with him without you around.

This could be the real reason for the upset afterwards, that she didn’t have a relationship with him and was confused. Chances are, the same thing would’ve happened if she’d had a week alone in this country with him.

I think I’m on my own in thinking that the place she goes to with him in a way isn’t the main issue, it’s the fact she went from practically nothing to suddenly having just him around. So once she’s used to spending more time with in, including overnights, then I can’t see how taking her abroad on one of his weekends would be any different from taking her to his house. If anything it would be a bit of an adventure.

I’m not saying pack her off now, but if she becomes more comfortable and settled with him, perhaps he could pick her up from school on a Friday, have a flight about 6ish, then bring her back the following evening or first thing Sunday morning. Or as you say, he can rent somewhere that has room for his parents and your DD to stay, then they can take it in turns to do the travelling. Then it would be only every other month.

I do feel for you, it’s such a tough one

@Dddaddy Yes thank you, that's been clarified.

@BlueThistles I know. I'm just lucky DD is so wonderful

@AngelDelightUK I see your point but I didn't want to make the initial post too lengthy. He has in fact spent time with her overnight in the UK before. This has been with me allowing him to stay in my house to facilitate it. And also moving out of the house so that him and his parents could stay with her for a weekend uninterrupted. I didn't find her to be too unsettled after these times. I think it was more a product of the length of her time away this Summer and the fact that it was also abroad.

Moreover, I do still feel that 12hrs+ travelling would be too much for her once a month. The drive too and from the airport contributes too. Also, he would not be able to get a flight at that time due to working hours and would likely be flying at 7 earliest, meaning she would be in bed around 10.30/11 earliest if she slept immediately on reaching grandparents' house. I just think this is too much and when she starts school would make for a difficult week afterwards.

However, I agree that I wouldn't be opposed to them renting somewhere to stay and have her overnight once that consistent foundation was built up. I think ultimately a court may support the idea of him having two holidays a year with her and if needs be I would accept that and deal with the aftermath as best as possible for her. Thanks for your sympathy though . Appreciate the time you've taken to comment!

listen.... no Court is going to allow Him to take the child out of the country... or even potential overnight access... he's not consistent ... if he goes to Court all sorts of assessments on Him as well as you will be requested.. Parenting Assessments etc... these don't happen over night... everything gets looked at.. for you and him...

and remember... its the rights of the Child to see the Parent... not the right of a Parent to see a Child... please do not be manipulated into anything...

CMS would be my first call ... and No.. I would never let the Child leave the Country OP .. sign nothing ... stop dancing to his tune... what a prick 🌺

If it’s Ireland, she won’t need a passport to travel.

That’s the common travel area.

what country is it OP... it is relevant 🌺

@BlueThistles

what country is it OP... it is relevant 🌺

Ireland.

Ireland

ok I totally missed that 🤣 thank you... ok that kinda changes the overseas issue. I'd still let him take you to Court though... gives clear boundaries and its in writing 🌺

@BlueThistles do you know what kind of parenting assessments or things they are likely to take into account? Not expecting legal advice but you sound like you have experience and knowledge in the area and would appreciate your thoughts :) I am definitely not signing anything and am trying my best to mitigate the impact of inconsistency on DD. I have definitely come round to the idea that court might be a good way of getting some clarity from the situation.

@Dddaddy As far as I know you are still required to have photo identification when entering Ireland from the UK. So obviously an adult with other forms of ID could use these (such as a driving license etc.) However, my DD does not have any other form of photo identification so her passport would be required to enter Ireland.

Not if she’s under 16 she doesn’t. She can legally travel with her parent who has photo ID.

I’ve done it many times.

@Dddaddy Okay well the last time she travelled with just her father, he was required to provide proof of her identity with photo identification and also various other forms of proof to show his relationship to her.

www.inis.gov.ie/en/inis/pages/travel-with-children Here is the page detailing the documents he can be asked for as she has a different surname. I know it does not state that a person is always asked but the only time he has travelled with her, he was asked to provide all of the detailed proof.

That’s policy and guidance for those requiring a visa.

Also, it states that you don’t have to provide that info it’s merely advisory.

Finally, both Ryanair and easyJet allow a child u16 to travel accompanied by a parent. There is no requirement for a child u16 to have photo ID to travel within the CTA. And within the common travel area there is no requirement to have a passport. The carrier may require photo ID (most do) but as an example Ryanair are clear that a child u16 travelling with an adult does not need photo Id.

There’s a Twitter answer here twitter.com/ryanair/status/777221968680644609?lang=en and in addition, I’ve done it. Twice. Once with easyJet to Belfast when ds lost his passport and once to Dublin when dd didn’t have a passport. I took their birth certificates (and I did have a notarised letter from their dad but I wasn’t asked for it).

All I’m trying to tell you is that you’re pinning your hopes on her not travelling without a passport and it’s a false hope while she’s u16 and wanting to go to Ireland because of the CTA rules.

If he takes her birth certificate and his Id matches with the birth certificate, he can travel with her perfectly legally.

@Dddaddy I don't see anything on that page stating that it is only for people requiring a visa. The last time my daughter travelled all of the above was requested. As I've pointed out, I realise that it is not considered essential but could in fact be asked for at any time.

'If he takes her birth certificate and his Id matches with the birth certificate, he can travel with her perfectly legally.' He actually could still be required to produce proof of permission from her other parent (myself) that she has to travel.

All of this is besides the point in some ways, as I am not asking for advice on how to legally block him from leaving the country with her nor do I feel that is likely in this current moment. Particularly as her leaving the country right now would not be considered essential travel... I am looking for advice that is more centred on what is best for her in the long-term and how to make the best decisions around this. I don't mean to be rude but your input throughout has mostly been belligerent and overly pedantic.

How are you going to stop him applying for an Irish passport for her?

I was giving you legally based advice.

If he goes to court, given that it is just Ireland, he may be given permission to take her every month. Or even every half term and holiday.

If the court awards him contact he will be allowed to take her wherever he likes during that contact time. And you will be the one who has to take him to court to restrict his rights to do as he sees fit.

Focusing on keeping her passport and she can’t travel without it is unwise.