Working all Christmas

[Reallyneed]

DH works nights in a warehouse/retail job.

This year Christmas eve, Christmas day and boxing day fall on days that he will be due to work.

Last Christmas he worked all through and it was miserable, me stuck at home on my own with two tiny toddlers watching daytime tv whilst he slept through the festivities.

This year we are due to have his three eldest (my step kids) over on boxing day for the whole day which just won't be able to happen if he's working then sleeping then back to work again.

Do we need to 'suck it up' or should he be entitled to spend the Xmas period with me and the children.

I was so looking forward to Xmas for once now I'm feeling disheartened.

Use proper channels first before you go kicking off on social media. It won't fix anything

sentinent

some jobs are open but this man's job never stated every Xmas.

IME there are people who want to work at Xmas.

@Plussizejumpsuit
I spend 1000s per year at sainsburys. We do weekly shop there. This really disgusts me!

Me too!
You'd think such a large company would pay more attention to numerous complaints about the same shit manager!

Pick another Christmas Day and enjoy. I e worked in call centres over Christmas and done this..

Be aware that there are changes to annual leave entitlement due to COVID - www.gov.uk/guidance/holiday-entitlement-and-pay-during-coronavirus-covid-19 - "if not reasonably practicable" to take leave in the year it's for, it can be carried forward by up to two years.

I can see any of the supermarkets / other essential retailers deciding it's not practicable to have staff taking their annual leave as usual this year, given increased demand and an increased level of absence eg. people with COVID/people self-isolating/extremely clinical vulnerable people.

So, start with making sure he's joined the trade union and speaking to the a union rep if there is one in the workplace or the union centrally.

If it's your set working day then it is what it is unless leave arranged/taken in advance. It does suck but there will be years where he will be off for all of it too. Although prob not a few years if those are his set working days.
I had mine the last 3 years and this year I miss all of it too.

@goldfinchfan His job won’t state work Xmas,it will state his set work days.
And if Xmas falls on his work day that’s how it goes

Points taken about not tweeting the company, good advice!

He hasn't taken his own grievances to HR but has gone above his night manager to the store manager himself and the outcome was nothing, not even a follow up.

Others have taken complaints higher but they didn't get anywhere either.

It looks to be that the management stick together.

On one occasion somebody from outside the branch came in to observe the boss on a night shift after a colleague taking the grievance to HR but nothing came of that either.

Its hard to get DH to push through and stand his ground as he has seen more than once how nothing changes and complaints get brushed under the carpet.

I'm starting to come around to the idea of having Xmas on a different day.

I worked in the hr dept of sainsbury's warehouse in Charlton, many years ago. They would definitely want to know about this manager's conduct.

Let them know he was on best behaviour when they attended previously so it might be an idea to visit undercover.

You mention op that your dh is autistic which is a lifelong disability.
I also agree apart from the legal aspect of being refused annual leave your dh's boss appears to be bulling vulnerable members of the workforce.

This is what they say they do to promote an inclusive workplace and how they empower employees with disabilities.
www.about.sainsburys.co.uk/making-a-difference/be-a-place-where-we-all-love-to-work/our-colleagues/diversity-and-inclusion
“We’ll have an inclusive workforce that offers employment opportunities to all members of the community.”
www.about.sainsburys.co.uk/making-a-difference/our-values/our-stories/2017/you-can-is-working
"Indeed, You Can plays a vital role in our efforts at every level of the business to empower people with disabilities.
All our staff receive regular disability training."

Maybe op you can ask for help on the best way to proceed on here.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/employment_issues

As an aside to this
"Following a survey commissioned by the National Autistic Society, the London School of Economics advises that only 16% of adults with ASCs are in full-time employment, despite 77% of them wanting to work. These figures have remained static since 2007 and are considerably lower than the employment figure for people belonging to other disability categories, which currently sits at 47%. Therefore, those with autism spectrum conditions are disproportionally unemployed." Marion Fellows SNP
www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2019-07-02a.1174.2
So those of you suggesting op's dh finds another job it really isn't easy to find another job.

My advice also is not to go through social media. It would be better to go through official channels. Good luck OP.
As for Christmas we often did it on a different day/time as my dh was working most Christmas days when my children were little.

No one was allowed to request holidays for over Christmas or Easter or bank holidays etc, they could only be off if rostered to be, although they were allowed to swap between themselves so long as their shift was covered.

It is a bit crap if he had to work it last year as well, you’d think they could maybe come up with a better system. If he’s working two years in a row then there are presumably others getting both years off. It does seem unfair and also his boss sounds an arse. I doubt there’s much he can really do though :(

I agree he could look at trying for a new job. Yes tricky just now but got to be worth a go, he’s not going to end up any worse off than now

YABU. It is good he is working to pay for the children. He does not deserve it off more than anyone else.

When is he asking for the holidays? When I used to do schedules there were people who were repeatedly denied because they'd wait until the beginning of November to request the end, or asked for the beginning of June at the end of May, they were fully booked. I repeatedly told people that if they had an event then to request holiday early - I booked my own 40th a year in advance and it was on the system as early as possibly (11 months before). Someone waited until 3 weeks before their 21st to ask for time off, in JULY.

I won't be home for Christmas. I hope to get home maybe the week after. We will just postpone our Christmas to another day.

Either you celebrate Christmas on a different day or he ‘develops‘ Covid symptoms and has to self-isolate until he’s tested.

Ask the dc's what they want to do? They're teenagers, they'll have an opinion.

It sucks, but it's part and parcel of working in retail unfortunately.

As PP have said, COVID regulations mean annual leave can be carried forward for up to two years if it's not possible or practical for people to take it now. I do understand that him having his annual leave rejected, is annoying and upsetting, but isn't actually illegal as things stand.

I used to work in retail management and scheduling the Christmas holidays was a right royal pain in the arse. I hated it and there was always someone who got pissed off with you and would get snippy and angry because they had to work Christmas Eve two years in a row, or whatever it was.

If he works set days and has to work them regardless, at least he'll have Christmas off for a few years in the future. I used to work in a shop where everyone worked had to work Christmas Eve and Boxing Day, every year. There was no option to take it off, even if they weren't your regularly scheduled days. Now that was shit!

He has already had two periods of self isolation due to covid, the first was when DC had symptoms but couldn't get tested (March) and then again when I did test positive in July. I suppose in theory if he claims to have symptoms they have to follow protocol but if his boss has a hunch that it's BS he'll probably make life even harder for him.

I agree consulting my step DC is a good idea. I don't know when schools break up for Christmas but they should be off for at least one of his days off in the lead up, so we could have an early Christmas.

I did broach that as a possibility to DH but he wasn't that receptive as he's just so pissed off with it all at the moment. He's saying (out of frustration) that he just won't bother going in but he doesn't mean that.

He's very responsible and wants to protect his income so he's just blowing hot air.

To answer a previous posters question about when he applies for holiday, he always gives plenty of notice.

For example, he wanted a week off in September to accommodate two birthdays (mine and DSS within a few days of each other) so he put the request in by late June and it was rejected.

Having worked nights and shifts for many years, sometimes the ph’s fall lucky for you and some years they don’t. It’s luck of the drawer. My husband and I have worked many Christmas days and other ph’s, it’s just one of those things. He’s no more entitled to have those days off than any other employee.

If I were him and finishing at 10am, I would watch the kids open their presents then go to bed until Chrismas dinner time. I would have a later dinner, about 5 and then maybe go back to bed for a couple of hours. It’s not ideal but thousands of people do this. Just try and stay as upbeat as you can 💐

He should definitely take the lack of holidays to HR.

If he knows he wants a specific week off in September I'd put them in as early as possible, could he put them in now for next year and see if that gets approved?

Get him to call in sick.

OFFS, enough of the brand shaming.
Many a major company with multiple management layers have these problems.

Contacting HR direct is the next step. They already know of the line manager’s shortcomings - because no grievance raised goes unrecorded or counted - & redress MAY take place. But if those are his shift days then so be it, unless he can trade dates with someone else.

Shift rotas are notoriously difficult to manage particularly at certain times of year e.g. in & around school holidays. If I wanted specific days in September, I’d be booking before June as many folks without school age children take their summer leave in June, early July & September.

As PP have said, COVID regulations mean annual leave can be carried forward for up to two years if it's not possible or practical for people to take it now. I do understand that him having his annual leave rejected, is annoying and upsetting, but isn't actually illegal as things stand

The 1.6 weeks can be carried forward but the 4 weeks generally can’t. So no - he cant be asked to carry across all but one day of leave.

Also the Company have to have regard for the health of the worker. One days leave a year isn’t reasonable and theres not one single HR manager in the country who would think it is.