Working all Christmas

[Reallyneed]

DH works nights in a warehouse/retail job.

This year Christmas eve, Christmas day and boxing day fall on days that he will be due to work.

Last Christmas he worked all through and it was miserable, me stuck at home on my own with two tiny toddlers watching daytime tv whilst he slept through the festivities.

This year we are due to have his three eldest (my step kids) over on boxing day for the whole day which just won't be able to happen if he's working then sleeping then back to work again.

Do we need to 'suck it up' or should he be entitled to spend the Xmas period with me and the children.

I was so looking forward to Xmas for once now I'm feeling disheartened.

Taking a different approach, if they have an hr function, he should speak to them about not having been able to take any holiday as this is enshrined in law. I wouldn’t focus on the Christmas aspect, but if he hasn’t taken any holiday since January, the usual minimum is 28 days (including bank holidays) so he should be off most of December!

You have to expect to work over Christmas in retail, but it sounds like there's a wider issue.

Assuming you're in the UK he has a legal entitlement to 5.6 weeks of holiday per year (in retail he's likely to have to work some or all of bank holidays so is entitled to the days off at other times). If he doesn't get this, his employer is breaking the law.

When does the holiday year run from? If he hasn't had any time off this year, when does his employer think your DH is going to be able to take it, given that it's unlikely to be between now and Christmas. Can your DH talk to HR, the area manager, or join a union and get advice that way?

The issue about getting time off specifically at Christmas and favouritism is probably harder to resolve, but it should be that if some people are allowed leave at Christmas, this should rotate, as in if you work one Christmas, you are first in the queue next time. Or the employer should ban leave at Christmas, everyone should work and take their leave at other times.

I was going to suggest to him he puts it in writing that he's going to be out of the city from 24th until the 27th with family and therefore just won't be available to work, end of.

I realise that is irresponsible and may cost him his job so bit my tongue, it is just incredibly frustrating.

As alot of you have said, whilst he isn't entitled to Christmas per se.. He is entitled to adequate holidays and he just hasn't received them.

I agree HR is probably the way forward, irrespective of Christmas.

The boss is terrible and has had multiple grievances raised about him for for bullying which never to anywhere.

My DH is autistic which the workplace is fully aware of and the boss I'm referring to has shouted at him more than once and said things like "there is something seriously wrong with you" well no shit, he has autism ffs

DH has complained twice but has only taken it as far as upper management, that being the store manager (DH's boss is the night manager)

Any grievance is swept under the carpet.

Another colleague on the receiving end of the arse went as far as HR which resulted in a visit to the store to observe the behaviour of the night manager who of course was on his best behaviour, nothing ever came of that.

I could give many examples of unfair treatment and borderline misconduct on part of the boss but I don't want to derail the thread, in short he is just awful.

@ScrapThatThen

This does seem really unfair op, but as it is not changeable I would sort out with dh

• one decent family celebration day with all five kids (doing Christmas early or late could be a fun family tradition). And a way they can do stockings and presents with dad there. Turn it round from annoying boss to 'dad's doing an essential job today so he can't have Christmas day off like other people can, so this is how we are going to have fun.'
• as you have no family, husband or in laws to worry about pleasing, it sounds like you should plan the day exactly as it suits you (lots of TV and treats for the kids, easy delicious food for you and whatever you want on telly in the evening).

Yes this is probably the best solution to this side of the issue.

Maybe his DC spend Christmas Day with their DM, you have a relaxed day at home with yours and then some time between Christmas Day and New Year, when DH is at home and awake in the day time, have 'Christmas Day Mk 2' with a few presents to unwrap, party food, Christmassy film, games etc.

Thank you for the replies.

When he gets up later I'll ask him to confirm when the holiday year runs from.

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to disclose this but for the purpose of transparency he works for Sainsbury's.

Your DH needs another job as work will not get better for him. Is he in a Union? I would recommend as his boss rejecting all his holidays is not on. Everyone needs a break that’s why we have annual leave. I suspect his boss and his favourites will all have some time off over Christmas too.

I'd imagine they have a HR department then, OP. If leave years runs until January and he's had no leave thus far he should be off most of December.

I would get Mumsnet to take that info about where he works off here though, OP.

Don't apologise OP, it's a race to the bottom for some people.

I've actually been the person working away in a job that risked my life every day for consecutive Christmases.....the amount of sneering at people who work everyday jobs for having a moan about their lives is ridiculous. It's like a playground at times.

I think the big issue is your DH never has any consecutive days off. Ever? That isn't healthy.

Gosh I’d assumed his work was not as big a company as that. Shouldn’t assume. Use HR and go higher up as necessary. While he still may need to work the Christmas shifts he needs to sort out actually getting holidays.

As they are a huge firm, they should have a grievance procedure he can go down & a full HR department - if his immediate line management are sweeping his complaints under the carpet, he should speak to HR for advice.

Practical suggestion depending on how far they travel is that the step-kids come for Boxing Day morning, say 8-11.

Whilst an employer can say when you have holiday, you still have to have the time off.

I have known people who have worked for Sainsbury's and have never once moaned or mentioned ill-treatment. A few tweets from someone you know outside your family to Sainsbury's might get them to act. I am sure that senior managers in Sainsbury's would be horrified to be aware of this particular manager.

Sainsburys are breaking the law with regard to his holidays. He needs to get in touch with their HR department ASAP to notify them and also to resolve these issues of bullying too. I believe Sainsburys annual leave runs from April to March each year so he needs to get his annual allowance booked off ASAP.

@Funkypolar

In the nicest possible way: as a military wife my husband could be away for 9 months at a time including over Christmas. At least yours comes home safely every day.

Your husband made the choice to be in the military and you made a choice to be married to someone in the military. How is this relevant to op?

Is he in a union? You could also phone ACAS.

"I have known people who have worked for Sainsbury's and have never once moaned or mentioned ill-treatment."

Irrelevant. I know 2 people who hate working for them...which is also irrelevant

My DH only gets Christmas off every 9th year.

It is what it is.

I don't have any other family locally I can spend it with
You'll be spending it with three children?
Many people this year will be spending Christmas alone rather than with family. Or are you suggesting that they should all be compelled to work, because you consider having children entitles your DH to time off?

OP I think he needs to be looking for a new job as it sou ds like his boss is gonna make every thing difficult always. I've worked in retail while at uni and a bit afterwards then in mental health services a while ago. In my experience good managers try to do a one in one off type of arrangement for Christmas. I've never had to work Christmas day but have had to work late on Christmas eve and then early boxing day which meant I couldn't travel to see family and it ducked so I get how your feeling.

But in all honesty he isn't entitled. But it does sound like there's some crap hr and management happening. I now work in the sector my degrees are related to. One thing I did think about was work life balance. I know not everyone is privileged enough to have these choices though

No annual leave? Illegal. Can’t believe this would. Be allowed by sainsburys. He needs to speak to hr. they are taking advantage of your dh, or your dh is lying and doing other stuff when he says he’s working.

I know he's in warehousing but for tgose in retail I think as a thank you they should have been given Easter Monday and Boxing day off. Perhaps that would have had a knock on effect on the distribution side.

My DD's partner has just left Sainsbury's because of the problems with the way Staff were treated. It might vary region to region but for a large company it isn't acceptable.

So he works 4 days a week and has three days off - is that right?

In that case, jjst have Christmas Day and Boxing Day on the other days that week that he’s off. It’s not as if your two toddlers will be saying

“ Look at the calendar mummy, it’s actually 23rd December today “

And do what everyone else says about addressing the annual leave issue. It’s illegal for him to have less than the statutory minimum of 20 days. He MUST be given that and can’t be asked to carry it over or accept pay in lieu.

I spend 1000s per year at sainsburys. We do weekly shop there. This really disgusts me!

That's the problem with people wanting to be able to shop more or less whenever they want to, isn't it?

If he can't take his leave does he have to be paid for it or would it be lost?

@Reallyneed your poor husband. Like others have said this is a bigger issue than Christmas off. It sounds like he's being bullied and if he's autistic then does that come under the Equalities Act?

I admit to knowing nothing about HR processes or grievances, but he desperately needs help. Would ACAS be a place to start? Or maybe post on the employment board on here?

Good luck and

He isn't currently in a union no.

With respect to DH, he isn't the most proactive about standing his ground. I think this is large due to the fact that grievances against this boss never go anywhere and it it all feels like a waste of time.

The last person to go to HR about bullying didn't have their grievance resolved and it didn't stop the boss continuing to treat him like shit, in fact DH says he was even more goady toward the colleague in question as he knew he'd been complained about.