To have had enough of step son crying to get out of being reprimanded

[MillyA]

He is 9 and generally a good kid but DH is stupidly reluctant to ever tell him off because he's so sensitive and to be honest I'm tired of it. The other kids get tellings off when needed.

We were all in the living room this afternoon and DSS was playing with the younger ones. He picked up and threw DD (18 months) onto the floor from his standing position, he's quite tall for his age so it was bloody high for a small baby/toddler to drop from.

DD hits the floor with a crash head first and starts screaming, i shouted "no!" and rush over to scoop her up and check if she's hurt.

DSS starts sobbing because he was expecting to be told off, yet upon DH seeing him crying he tells him it's ok it's over with now don't worry

This is just one example in a long line of others where DSS really should have gotten a strict talking to but hasn't.

Two weeks ago he kicked DH full force in the groin (playing) which resulted in DH being unable to talk for a good few minutes and had tears in his eyes, but because DSS turned the water works on he escaped being told off. What should have happened was DH explaining to him in no uncertain terms how that's dangerous and he should never, ever do that.

Obviously I have a DH problem.

WWYD/S?

Of course he needs to be spoken to firmly, and told that he can’t treat a younger child like that. But I don’t think it sounds like he cries deliberately to avoid being told off. It sounds like he was upset and frightened at what he’d done.

I've got to admit that the lack of impulse control, the lack of planning/understanding consequences (e.g., kicking his dad while playing), and the lack of emotional regulation are all pinging my radar but a post on MN is not enough to form any sort of clear idea around what they might equate to. I do think it could be a good idea to suggest DH speaks to the school nursing team, at the very least they'll be able to give some parenting input.

Are the tears only from knowing he has done something wrong and he is in trouble? Surely he is crying and upset about how he has hurt his sister too? Did he ask about her, apologise, seem concerned at all about how his actions hurt her? If he has no empathy apart from self-preservation then you need to seek professional advice on this. A 9 year old should really understand actions and consequences of hurting people and feel bad. Mine are much younger but straight away even through tears will be saying sorry I hurt you if they hurt someone by accident.

@MillyA

Not to discount your opinion PP (sorry I don't know how to tag) but DSS really isn't troubled, at least not in any way that is obvious. Aside things like this which stem from not thinking ahead, he is incredibly well behaved. I appreciate that may sound insane to you here after my post.

He is as good as gold in school, he's never rude to his parents (or me) or intently spiteful to his younger siblings. He has never so much as swore when he has been here. He doesn't lash out or answer back. He doesn't refuse to follow instructions and will do as he is told. He's a very well behaved child that does stupid (and dangerous) things sometimes because he doesn't think through the consequences or realise (at least I don't think he realises) that he's doing anything wrong.

He does command alot of attention when he comes and likes to be the star of the show but doesn't act out iykwim. In fact one of the main ways he seeks attention and validation is by demonstrating how good he is.

I think perhaps I'm not articulating this very well.

He's certainly never deliberately naughty and these things have come about as a result of him 'playing' and going far too overboard.

A few things I would say - what you've written here about how well behaved he is doesn't really fit with this child who you've painted to be dangerous and needing constant reprimanding. Your previous posts imply that he often does things that you DH should be telling him off for but doesn't. But what you say here is that he is a very behaved little boy on the whole, which would lead me to be a bit more lenient with the less desirable behaviour (by this, i don't obviously mean you should let this incident go, he definitely needs talking to to explain how dangerous it is, but tickling and tossing her backwards saying weee doesn't shriek malicious to me, more misguided, and therefore I don't know that a "wallop" is the right way forward (I know you didn't say this, but other posters did)).

Secondly, the other thing that stands out to me is that for your older DD, and the two younger children you share with your DH, your home is their main home. Your DSS is the only one for whom your house is a secondary home and regardless of how much you try to make him feel the same, he WILL feel different. I can almost understand your DH's reluctance to be too harsh with him, because perhaps he appreciates that his son is in a different situation to the other children in the house (in fact in one of your earlier posts, you said "he's gone home now", inferring that your house is not his home).

I'm not suggesting that you let this go, but I do think it's worth looking at the bigger picture. From what you've written, he's a very well behaved little boy who is desperately trying to get validation by demanding attention and perhaps trying to be "funny" (which obviously in this case backfired horribly), but I'm not actually sure that shouting and getting angry is the right approach. If he is that keen for adult approval, the tears are probably embarrassment and fear that he's disappointed you.

Judging by the way you talk about him and the words you use (waterworks and the like) , you don't really like much, do you? Poor DSS

With respect, that couldn't be further from the truth. If you were to ask DSS about me he would tell you I'm wonderful (as has been relayed back from his DM)

I'm very good to him and have gone above and beyond to make his stays with us fun and full of love. The way he is glued to my hip every visit is a testament to that. He loves me and I love him.

However, I can see why you might conclude otherwise based on this post. I'm very upset today, my DD was hurt, and then I'm royally pissed off at DH to boot.

I will admit that I'm tired of the tears all of the time, but then if he were my DS instead of DSS then I would be saying the same.

I get tired of my own DS's behaviours too sometimes, they are just different.

The problem is he is too sensitive and it is going to cause him problems as he gets older unless he is taught to develop some resilience. It's not the norm for a boy his age to burst into tears when his parents (me step, obviously) are playing a kiddy game with toddlers. I'm genuinely concerned that he'll become a target for bullies.

I don’t mean this to be arsey, but are you qualified to asses the behaviour and conclude there is nothing here than therapy could help with. I do think your husband needs some guidance, and to overcome his guilt at the split (which i assume os why he isn’t parenting properly). But maybe the boy needs help with impulse control and to talk through his home life and how it feels to move between two homes.

I completely see what you're saying. I do agree that DH needs some serious guidance and DSS probably would benefit from therapy of some kind.

I will discuss both points with DH when we are talking again. I'm in bed with DD now and don't want to engage with him any more tonight. It is my hope that he's going to be going over the day and reassessing his handling of the situation as I was very firm in my conviction to him.

Excuse if I have crossed posted this took me ages to type!

Feels like there's a correlation between blokes that get divorced (so may be shit husbands, though not always I acknowledge) and being a shit (weak) dad.

My soon to be ex is the same. Just can't tell our kids off, has to akways be the good cop / Disney dad.

Still, Mumsnet is useful in reminding me why I don't want to ever become a step-parent.

I'm %99.9 sure that there was no malice in what he did.

When I said DH constantly fails to reprimand behaviour, I'm referring to things like this today, kicking DH hard in the balls, breaking things (by accident) by not thinking about what he's doing and being careless.

There is often situations with my older DS (11) where DSS will donk him on the head with something or other or trip him up, trying to be funny and playful, and obviously it isn't well received.

I don't mean to paint an inaccurate picture, apologies.

He's not a naughty or spiteful child, just very reckless and doesn't engage his brain which ends up being quite dangerous.

@MillyA my 7 year old sounds very similar, whether it is a coincidence or not he also has dyspraxia. I find the complete over sensitiveness very difficult and I am his mother. I also find he gets upset by things my 3 year old wouldn't. It is hard work. We still tell him off when needed, he isn't getting upset to be manipulative he just struggles to regulate his emotions and struggles with being impulsive. I hope your DD is ok and I hope that your DH realises he has acted poorly towards you, your DD but also his DS. It does him no favours at all to have a father who is too afraid of his reaction to parent.

sounds like he wants attention

why does everything have to come down to sen cant kids just benaughty these days

@MillyA I would also say having read your post that you need to ask your 11 year old to have more respect for the 9 year old. If he knows he doesn't like being tripped up or bonked on the head, even playfully, he shouldn't do it. We try and teach our boys who have very different personalities in terms of how they play/ would react to similar situations to be respectful of each others personalities and boundaries.

Alot of my frustration also stems from the fact he will tell all of the other DC off, even our 18 month old with a firm "no!" and assertive/loud voice when redirecting away from dangerous behaviour.

But never DSS.

I do worry that this will breed resentment as my eldest will have long since started to notice.

I'm annoyed with DSS for what he has done today but I'm angry with DH for how he handled this and the bigger picture of differential treatment.

Again apologies if crossed posts.

[quote PoppingCandies]@MillyA I would also say having read your post that you need to ask your 11 year old to have more respect for the 9 year old. If he knows he doesn't like being tripped up or bonked on the head, even playfully, he shouldn't do it. We try and teach our boys who have very different personalities in terms of how they play/ would react to similar situations to be respectful of each others personalities and boundaries.[/quote]
Sorry I may not have been clear.

It's not my 11 year old who donks DSS on the head and trips him up, its the other way round.

I work in a secondary school and if your H doesnt change, he is setting his son up to get the piss ripped out of him.

He will come up against big kids/mouthy kids/ just kids who will see he cant control his sensitive side and enjoy the sport of making him cry. Your H has to teach him to learn to manage his feelings and H making excuses is setting him up to fail.

He is actually being quite unkind to his son, albeit couched in concern

I've had this with my 4yo ss. I've walked in on him countless times poking himself in the eye, hitting himself, pinching himself and him saying it's my son. DP caught him out as he said it when my son was at his grandparents. DP used to be like yours, treated him differently etc until he witnessed ss kicking our 1yo daughter and when DP Asked why he did it he said "because I wanted to make her sad and hurt her".

SS will fake cry so will make crying noises but no tears come out. We believe its partly down to his mum who hardly sees him but when she does she gives a dummy, partly down to his grandparents as if he's done something similar they say "It's ok it's done now don't cry" and think the sun shines out his arse!

Ah sorry for misreading. Need to go to bed I think. I hope you can get your DH to support you.

Your DH might as well have devised a training system to ensure his son finishes up in prison, for violence he believes will never be punished. Others have said, he will soon be too big, and too set in this pattern, to stop. Others have also said, a 9 year old knows perfectly well he is not 'play fighting' when he kicks his hardest to a male groin, and knows perfectly well a rug is not a deep mattress, so a dropped baby could be brain damaged.

How many children do you have, between you? Maybe DSS is trying to stop production of more rivals?

why does everything have to come down to sen cant kids just benaughty these days

Did you mean to sound so ignorant?

Naughtiness and SN are not the same thing however some behaviours perceived to be "naughty" such as not understanding social boundaries, emotional disregulation, and inappropriate behaviours for their age and/or the situation can be signs that a child may not be developing typically and could have a neurodevelopment condition.

Also SEN and SN are not the same thing. SEN refers to special education needs and means a child needs additional support with learning, this could be in one or two areas of education or across all areas. SN refers to special needs, i.e., a disability or health condition. While there is often overlap between the two, it is possible to have SEN (education needs) and no special needs and visa versa.

@GabsAlot - it not that 'everything' is special needs thease days, its that there is much more general and professional awareness of special needs. It doesnt mean even if it is special needs, behaviours need addressing, so its not a get out but a recognition that 'where' the behaviours originate often dictates how they should be tackled.

@popping candles the op has said that it's 9 year old step son who is doing those things to his 11 year old SB not the other way around .

[quote Ken1976]@popping candles the op has said that it's 9 year old step son who is doing those things to his 11 year old SB not the other way around . [/quote]
I know I misread and apologised to the OP.

@MoonJelly

at the expense of my DD being assaulted (do you think i sound dramatic to say that - given that he was 'playing'?)

No, you don't sound dramatic. I think you need to emphasise to your husband how very dangerous this incident was, and that your DSS is potentially going to continue putting the younger children in danger because no-one is bringing home to him how serious his conduct is.

Exactly. He knows he just needs to cry, or pretend to, and his dad will rush to placate HIM. Never mind the small child that he has just deliberately dropped from a height, onto a hard floor.

I hope your little girl is okay, OP. I would find it hard to move past this.

And I'm not talking about the nine year old.

Judging by the way you talk about him and the words you use (waterworks and the like) , you don't really like much, do you? Poor DSS Please take no notice of this comment! It actually sounds as if you're more lenient to your stepson than your own children if anything. Some people think you should treat biological children and step children the same as long as step children are treated like Gods.

As you said, you would say the same about your own children. It's your husband who sounds like he is the one singling out one child.

@Elsiebear90

I think at 9 he should know he can’t kick people in the genitals and pick up and throw toddlers, I would question if the water works are genuine or not tbh.

It's pretty clear they're not.

OP, you have every right to discipline when something like that happens.

But you need to have firm words with your DH

It's so simple. He does something silly which has repercussions and instantly cries. It works. He not only gets away with it, but it has a greater impact since it makes you fall out with his father which is even more disturbing. Such power ! It's learned behaviour rewarded by your husband.

Over to him to put an end to it.

I agree with you @LeGrandBleu - I feel for the boy.

What he did was wrong but a stern telling off isn’t always the best way to resolve the problem - and as for saying he’s too sensitive? Bugger off with that crap. We live in a society filled with toxic masculinity because boys aren’t allowed to be sensitive and cry and this kind of statement just perpetuates the belief boys and men are not allowed to be sensitive. That’s an awfully harsh position to take with a 9 year old and has lasting repercussions well into adulthood

I know now we all just sit our kids down in front of screens we expect them to mature at age 4 and by 10 to display the maturity of a 70 year old man -mumsnet is renowned for contradicting itself with when maturity kicks in and what behaviour is appropriate when. He’s a young boy adjusting to a new family and a baby that’s becoming a real person to him. My dd struggled when her brother came along and she was particularly sensitive to being told off because she felt her position in the family was under threat according to her immature mind. It wasn’t about giving her a bollocking it was about reassuring her she was loved despite being told off and understanding why what happened was dangerous - if it kept happening then a change in approach would be deserved and it sounds like that’s your husbands approach and you have to respect that’s how he treats his son & it works for them.

Your ss will feel like a stranger in his dads home even if he doesn’t articulate that and with accusations of being too sensitive because he cries at being told off he never will learn to articulate his true feelings. You’ll alienate him more. Don’t believe for a second step kids are not tuned in to how stepparents feel about them. I say that from experience.

You’re angry, that’s allowed but wanting to punish a child because you’re angry isn’t the right reason for doing so.