To thinking asking mothers educational level at booking appointment is shaming

[Ivybutterfly]

At my midwife booking appointment I was asked what age I left full time education. I remember the same question last time. They ask whether you have a degree or not. I found it rude and inappropriate. It is also irrelevant. I just sucked it up. My DH on the other hand was raging. He said it was shaming and disgusting. I agree. I think I am going to complain. Why so they ask such a rude question which has no relevance to pregnancy?

[quote Ivybutterfly]@Constance1 it is the opposite. Which is why I find the question rude. That is obvious.[/quote]
Don't think it is obvious by the replies you are getting. You and your DH have associated level of education with shame, that's on you!

When completing forms if I feel a question isn't relevant I keep it blank. I wouldn't answer the question about my education at a booking in appointment.

One US study and one UK to add to the links posted by PP. It’s not a reach to suggest that outcomes and maternal education are correlated, even after adjusting for incomes, it’s a very well established fact.

The people saying “it should be explained why they’re asking” sound reasonable, but would it really make it better if you added a note to the question saying “we’re asking this question because statistics indicate that women with lower levels of education are more likely on average to have babies with dangerously low birth weights which have lifelong negative consequences for their health”?
That is the reason but I’m guessing that saying so really wouldn’t have positive outcomes.

" just wondered if it was as shocking as being asked if you have a degree"

Wouldn't most people just laugh? Of course, if you are related to the father you'd probably feel shamed. It's a good job European royals don't usually have to use their national health services.

@earthyfire

When completing forms if I feel a question isn't relevant I keep it blank. I wouldn't answer the question about my education at a booking in appointment.

Yes, I sometimes tick 'prefer not to say' to questions about religion or sexuality if I think they're not relevant. I suppose it's harder if you're asked orally though.

Why is OP so offended when she has a degree, her being very working class has nothing to do with her education level. So this screening question can't be a question about 'class', can it. OP is proof of that. So is her partner.

In contrast to 'class', mother's education level is very relevant to pregnancy outcomes.

Father's education level isn't much relevant to pregnancy or early life outcomes. That's a shame, isn't it? Reflects too little involvement by dads in early childhood.

I left school at 18, and did a degree in my 30s as a mature student. How do people like me fit into all of this?

• Ivybutterfly I find your reaction here says more about you and maybe your own prejudice/sense of “shame” around people that don’t have a high level of education because not having a high level of education is nothing to be ashamed of. At all. In any context. And having a high level of education certainly doesn’t make people better than others, so why should people feel ashamed?

I’m also from a working class background and I have 2 degrees and a post grad. Should anyone who doesn’t have a degree and a post grad feel ashamed ? Of course not !

The midwifery team need to collect information in order to allow them to provide the best care and support.

It’s an important socioeconomic indicator for statistical purposes, nothing more. They also ask about lots of other things that are important for understanding the health of the population.

I wasn’t asked at either of my booking in appointments. I had DD1 at 19 and DD2 at 26. I wouldn’t have been offended to be asked either time. I now have a teaching degree but for DD1, I only had A levels.

I don't think tarring everyone with the same brush based on their education or lack thereof is helpful.

No one is being tarred with a brush, it's simple statistics & probability.

@Daphnise

I love some of the attempted justifications for these absurd and irrelevant questions (no doubt from people with degrees!).

But I wouldn't bother complaining- after all unless you have a few degrees they won't take notice of your opinions.

The questions are not absurd or irrelevant though, for the reasons given by PP. However many questions asked during pregnancy are rather personal and can feel intrusive. You can decline to answer any that make you feel uncomfortable, although in some cases, the midwife may want to explore the reasons why you'd rather not answer! In this case you can just explain that although you understand the question's relevance on a population level, you don't feel it's relevant to your personal situation.

You and your DH have associated level of education with shame, that's on you!

👍

who feels ashamed by the question?

I was asked that very question when I had DC's. I was told it was for statistical analysis as there is evidence that mothers with a higher level of education has have an increased rate of breast feeding. By proving this hypothesis, they were hoping to put targeted support in place for mothers who require it the most.

@Gwenhwyfar

" just wondered if it was as shocking as being asked if you have a degree"

Wouldn't most people just laugh? Of course, if you are related to the father you'd probably feel shamed. It's a good job European royals don't usually have to use their national health services.

I don't think you would feel ashamed. In some ethnic groups living in the UK it's pretty normal to marry a cousin. Research has meant that these groups and cousins contemplating children together are routinely offered genetic screening, and it's important for midwives to know that this baby has cousin parents.

I'm always a bit taken aback by the shrieking about cousin marriages on Mn. It's legal in the UK and fairly common in lots of cultures worldwide.

All I can say is lucky you didn’t have to have ivf, I’ve been asked incredibly intrusive questions over the last 5 years, including intimate details of my sex life. The booking in appointment is a breeze

It's partly for statistics and partly to direct specific services to those who may need additional support. There are plenty of people who fall just above the line where you would be considered to have a learning disability yet do need extra help understanding forms, navigating benefits etc. They are not likely to have formal qualifications. (Of course there's people with 3 degrees and zero common sense and can't cope with forms and parenting, and those who left school at 14 yet are the smartest people you can meet but they don't know you so they have to use known factors to target support). It's not condescending, it's fact and you can refuse.

It's nothing to do with class whether you are educated or not. I'm educated and have letters after my name. I'm about as 'working class' as they come.

I agree with you, OP, but

I know plenty of educated twats

has left me with rather a curious image.

It's probably so they can give you some info about joining the NCT. You might not be the right sort.

I’m 17 weeks pregnant and I wasn’t asked this at my booking in appt or the one about if I’m related to my DH. I think I had the slimline booking questionnaire 😂

I can see your point OP I voted YANBU because some people might be offended and it could make them feel uncomfortable if they left education quite early. Maybe there is a better way they could find out the information they need. As others have said having degrees, etc doesn’t always mean a person has common sense and a basic grasp of biology or of being a mother/parent.

I was never asked that. Weird. Wouldn't answer it if I was

"I don't think you would feel ashamed. In some ethnic groups living in the UK it's pretty normal to marry a cousin. Research has meant that these groups and cousins contemplating children together are routinely offered genetic screening, and it's important for midwives to know that this baby has cousin parents.

I'm always a bit taken aback by the shrieking about cousin marriages on Mn. It's legal in the UK and fairly common in lots of cultures worldwide."

I know that cousin marriage is legal. It's also quite taboo in mainstream UK society and I think someone from a minority culture might know that and might feel judged. Maybe you're right though and they're not aware of how it's often considered.

Well, it does have some relevance to pregnancy. If a mother has a low level of education the midwife might have more explaining to do and in simpler terms.