To thinking asking mothers educational level at booking appointment is shaming

[Ivybutterfly]

At my midwife booking appointment I was asked what age I left full time education. I remember the same question last time. They ask whether you have a degree or not. I found it rude and inappropriate. It is also irrelevant. I just sucked it up. My DH on the other hand was raging. He said it was shaming and disgusting. I agree. I think I am going to complain. Why so they ask such a rude question which has no relevance to pregnancy?

What did you think of the question ‘are you and the father related ?’ 😬

No!! They didn’t!

Britain is obsessed with class. It holds people back. Asking a intrusive question about someone’s class will cause distress to some people. Maybe not those who think they are at the top of the heap maybe. But I found it intrusive and rude.

[quote Ivybutterfly]@HepLaurenceLB I find that offensive if true. My children are in single figures and they can read.[/quote]
Don’t assume everyone parents their children at the same level. There are actually more people than you would expect who cannot read but who are too embarrassed to say so

Equally a poor working class woman can have a degree.

@Daphnise

I love some of the attempted justifications for these absurd and irrelevant questions (no doubt from people with degrees!).

But I wouldn't bother complaining- after all unless you have a few degrees they won't take notice of your opinions.

Did you even bother the read the reasons why this, and many other, questions are asked. Or did you just jump on the bandwagon.

OP it has been explained why the questions are asked. You've chosen to continue to interpret it as shaming somehow (what is there to be ashamed about in leaving school after GCSEs?), rather than engage your brain and be glad that someone somewhere is using the data to provide better outcomes for those less advantaged than you.

Here is one of many studies explaining the link between mother’s education level and birth outcomes
bmcpregnancychildbirth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12884-017-1418-1

There are plenty of studies if you look OP.

Honestly, OP, with all the degrees between you and your DP one might assume you're both more interested in research and improving outcomes for 21st century children.

Perhaps the question could have been asked in a different way - but the answer matters, on both a macro and micro level.

I don't think of this as 'shaming'. It's a straightforward question. Whether you answer it or not is up to you.

I think a lot more carefully about which questions I choose to answer than I did previously. For what it's worth, parental religion is also a question that I find irrelevant. I always refuse to answer that one.

Is this policy for particular trusts? I've had three booking-in appointments at two different trusts and I'm pretty certain I was never asked this!

Maybe not those who think they are at the top of the heap maybe. But I found it intrusive and rude.

I think there’s something in this. People in secure homes, bills paid, car, nice clothes etc., whether educated or not, probably aren’t going to experience this question in the same way as someone with wet feet because they have holes in their shoes. If you feel you haven’t done well in life because you didn’t take your education far enough, you’re more likely to be embarrassed by this question. And an empathetic HCP would know this.

@flaviaritt

Higher educated= less risk of preterm birth, low birth weight and other things I can't remember.

Can you provide a source for this?

It’s pretty well evidenced

Is there a specific reason you felt shamed by the question?
Indignant, maybe; since you clearly hadn't understood the purpose, but the shame is all on you 🤷🏻‍♀️

watermark.silverchair.com/dyq069.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAApwwggKYBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggKJMIIChQIBADCCAn4GCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMPxhsuLOnuablzH2hAgEQgIICT-VFmBnj1Jc7gii8FGPUCBwQplIn2kx77pL7LHazh7mqxBc-dMCc6EwEQG1zNIKCMb90CRQPTaMP22jzDkT1D2gWfrlJ0Ie6okhXmd5fQbeJFOp2YjxRRvyU0twIk28ABl7iitSU4_ifBf329xJDiLz3eOfB-VqnIXNOjv0qxwj2zI11mpAjm_b5A2rOzIpjiUFJEcJCG3ii3FFXtK9jQVsf-qFAsc-VtO0mqHQgrwE-B5U1ivdoL11NBa2DIydWlLqmTfahhib4VjncvpNouw5IRx29ZZ6_Gn4AoC_a0oY_8AYMc2u-DaStsmhXLJKilSVFHG01KGTaa_zU7EABAz6M3EKKhL9APXkDMjcPu5mxUwfe2rzN83p2OIX8QnX5a-3PM6mdjak6RdD2Qorf758w9cTHl-uX1jSbP9M058-yEVp6q_JB2O590Cjj_h5gGATpoJE0L_9MLootjnqMM4oQhdJ08Yi5OX6NwpHOtMSb0CTPZ_H3J-gK_FTOvkFIpOhXtD4PP4Haesn9U1TQS7bROu4EUm_aGiOM0q3F2JszjzZcsbofks5GGj5V_qAbQkY71XZm93v-CTIJwBwfnvec7dCm3LqHZvfuIgGMWgzmKlm9zN0CnLK2n1BEdIS6x6_wX-TpVHvKFtQWdzbDz8ZSZjBzYRfBQDc0k4liNTL5w_dHMDHEtjP7prKQdnKFMQ8ejdnGisAj9XRCy-fPLyBUoXtaE0q4ijEmnNo3cCMGPBprnhOuy5WzspAKWBbBm0OrZgLeBuje551Fj0tKsQ

@flaviaritt there’s one study

I’ve never been asked this. Quick ask if a few friends in a baby group there and none of them have either. Based in north east.

@Ivybutterfly it’s perfectly valid to ask for educational attainment. There are multiple studies showing a relationship between mothers education and birth weight, academic achievement, nutrition, health etc.

I would hope they are doing it to keep an eye on those who might need more help.

@flaviaritt

What did you think of the question ‘are you and the father related ?’ 😬

No!! They didn’t!

This is definitely in there 😂

Holy giant link Batman...sorry!
But they ask for statistical purposes, I don’t feel ashamed that I was asked.

CovidAnni

Thanks.

It’s still intrusive, IMO. They should make it clear why they want the information, and certainly not request it unless it will actually trigger additional support.

OwlBeThere

Thanks!

Asking a intrusive question about someone’s class will cause distress to some people.
It wasn’t a question about class and the only person equating being working class with shame and distress is you. You and your DH might need to rack up a few more degrees between you to increase your comprehension skills.

I dont really get the outrage. People have explained the reasoning.

I mean, you recognise that there are women who have poorer outcomes? And I assume you agree that we should do something to improve those?

This is that something. Would you be less outraged if we were to recognise correlational factors and then deliberately not ask the question?!

@Jubaju

It wasn’t in my booking in questionnaire! maybe it’s different for different areas?

What did you think of the question ‘are you and the father related ?’ 😬

But this is relevant, especially in areas where, because of the ethnic make-up of the population, women are likely to have married a cousin -- which means there's an elevated risk of generic abnormalities.

I wasn’t ever asked this.. I had my booking appointment over 3 years ago! Is this done to everyone?

For goodness sake, they asked me if my partner and I are related and I didn’t find that offensive! They asked if I’d had my genitals mutilated. They asked if I was on benefits and if I had a job or not. Were these questions designed to shame me? They asked if my boyfriend was happy and if anyone in my family was depressed. I could go on.