To be concerned re this advice?

[Nicknamegoeshere]

My ex-husband told my ten year-old son over the phone tonight that if someone pushes him or hits him at playtime, he should push or hit back in "self-defence."

I'm personally quite horrified at this advice. Son says he knows it's wrong.

Advice please!

Schools are useless and never sort anything

Not my experience as a parent, fortunately.

And one of my children was a hitter. It was dealt with properly - namely that he, as the hitter, was behaving in an unacceptable way and had to learn ways to deal with his frustration which didn't involve hitting other children. It certainly didn't involve cheering them on as they hit him back, but harder.

He is now a very civilised young man who doesn't hit people. Thank God he wasn't taught that hitting results in more hitting, as he would only have hit back all the more. What he learnt instead was that hitting is not ok.

I told all my kids that if someone hit them, hit them back. They weren't allowed to start it, but they were allowed to finish it.

I’m astonished by all these ‘hit back twice as hard’ posts. It’s going down to an uncivilised level - and it doesn’t work. I’m with you OP, I don’t think this is the way to bring children up at all.
When they go low, we go high. (Michelle Obama)

@SassenachWitch

I agree with your ex.

Don’t start a fight, but by all means finish one.

My dad gave me this advice when I was at secondary school and now my DS has been given the same advice

What a depressing thread.
I would expect my child to get away. I wouldn’t expect them to get into a physical fight.
All those saying hit harder? What happens when it’s your child who then gets excluded from school for violence?
If the school is that crap at dealing with assault then move your child.

I disagree with the majority, the problem with "hit back harder", is where does that stop? Also only works if there is a level playing field and that is not always the case. What if the kid who has been hit has a disability? One that means they can't hit back 'twice as hard'? I think self-defence/reasonable retaliation is fine, especially at that age, but I have seen people telling their pre-schoolers to do this, which is surely just wrong!

@copperoliver There seems to be something of a disjuncture between your violent post and your "xxxx" at the end of it.

Your ex is right. I always used to tell my ds not to hit back because I didn’t want him fighting. What I did was set him up to become a target for bullies. Now both are encouraged to hit back and hit harder. Neither are a target and neither will land the the first hit but will always land the last.

I used to agree with you OP. And I'm a teacher too. But then I realised that the telling an adult thing never works. It just doesn't.

As a teacher yourself, you should know that after the event there's no way for a teacher or playground supervisor to know what really happened. Sp 99% of the time they can do nothing. And the victim simply adds 'snitch' to the reasons why the bully will continue to pick on them.

Of course, at work I wouldn't be able to tell a child to fight back. But it's the only thing that works. Or at least giving the appearance of strength rather than immediately running to the adult.

I’ve always said that if someone is close enough for them to hit you then your close enough to hit them back .
That they shouldn’t start a fight but they should always try to finish it
It’s quite a turn around to read that practically all the parents saying that they have told their kids to fight back
A few years ago this would have been unheard off 😂😂

@EstoPerpetua

Schools are useless and never sort anything

Not my experience as a parent, fortunately.

And one of my children was a hitter. It was dealt with properly - namely that he, as the hitter, was behaving in an unacceptable way and had to learn ways to deal with his frustration which didn't involve hitting other children. It certainly didn't involve cheering them on as they hit him back, but harder.

He is now a very civilised young man who doesn't hit people. Thank God he wasn't taught that hitting results in more hitting, as he would only have hit back all the more. What he learnt instead was that hitting is not ok.

Fantastic for you. Glad it was your experience

For myself many years ago and my child it hasn't been. I wish I'd smacked the girl who bullied me back once and even happily taken a suspension for it. I didn't and it was years of misery for me with the school turning a blind eye. The other schools in the area were full. Not so easy to move them when there's no space.

I will never let that happen to my child who is one of the kindest little boys, but yes if he gets hit, he's allowed to hit back. I don't mind that one bit.

My son was bullied. And Badly. By 3 boys.

He was soft and had a speech impediment and they picked on him mercilessly.

He was kicked and hit and battered and he took it. He was hit across the face with a metal bar. Blacked his eye.

His cousin heard about it and he and some of his friends scared the shit out of the wee scrote. Didn’t even lay a finger on him but told him if they touched my son again they’d have them to deal with.

And that finished it.

But from that day forward I told DS. if someone hits you hit them back hard so they go down and stay down. And my brother showed him how to do it.

I have zero regrets.

Sometimes though the retaliator seems to get into more trouble than the instigator at primary school, that was my ds's experience in Y1

@EstoPerpetua

Schools are useless and never sort anything

Not my experience as a parent, fortunately.

And one of my children was a hitter. It was dealt with properly - namely that he, as the hitter, was behaving in an unacceptable way and had to learn ways to deal with his frustration which didn't involve hitting other children. It certainly didn't involve cheering them on as they hit him back, but harder.

He is now a very civilised young man who doesn't hit people. Thank God he wasn't taught that hitting results in more hitting, as he would only have hit back all the more. What he learnt instead was that hitting is not ok.

That’s all very well if a wayward kid has a decent family to show him the way. More often than not the parents won’t engage with the school regarding their kid’s bullying and will happily send their little horror out to wreak havoc on others without a fuck given. Parental engagement is a huge problem for schools. It certainly is where I work. If you can’t get the parents on board and the kid doesn’t give a shit what the school have to say, it’s very hard to tackle. The only language they understand is ‘no’ and this generally comes in the form of a fair retaliation. Bullies don’t bother with those who are a match for them.

@Hellohah

I agree, always told DS that if someone hits him, he hits back twice as hard. I don't know a single parent who doesn't give this advice.

There's one here.

Neither are a target and neither will land the the first hit but will always land the last

This thread is like a "my child is harder than yours" bragging competition.

How do those of you say that "my child will always land the last punch" know that this is the case? What if your child comes up against someone even bigger and harder, who can knock them out?

I feel as if I have stumbled into a dystopia. Fortunately I don't know a single parent IRL who believes this, and my DC have not encountered this mentality at their schools. The bad behaviour (including my own child's) seems to be smoothed out of them by the time they finish at prep school.

I was always told if anyone hits you then hit them back.

I will be telling dd that as well.

What happens when the bully is twice the size then? Not only does your kid get clobbered but also feels bad as they didn’t fight back ( because they were shit scared).
Sure stand up to them but fighting a bully ( often genuinely tough/mean/strong kids) isn’t the heroic effort you are making it out to be.

Unfortunately my son didn’t get to go to prep school. And the little scrotes who decided to bully him didn’t either.

One of them is currently at her majesty’s pleasure. So. There’s that.

@Doingitaloneandproud I was in fact very badly bullied at school (in the 70s) and it was hideous.

Fortunately my own DC's experiences, and mine as a parent, have been entirely positive, including the way unpleasant behaviour is tackled.

Oh and the school were useless. Absolutely useless.

My dc have been told if they hit you once tell teacher/me hit you again after they have been spoken to hit them back. Older child in high school now an hes been told to hit back straight away so he doesn't become an easy target.

I did it right. For a whole year almost.

Told the school told him don’t hit back tell a teacher etc etc.

Was never away from the bloody school.

And they did. Fuck all. They were fucking useless.

They couldn’t protect my son all the time it was physically impossible.

The teachers couldn’t be there all the time.

And every chance they got the three of them were on my son kicking, hitting, punching, mocking, tipping out his bag, tripoing him.

School simply can’t stop that

Agree with your ex. I teach my daughter this.