Access across neighbours land

[user1483782091]

Bit of a long story, my first post. Not sure if my neighbour is on here or not but I guess irrelevant. We’ve been in our house 5 years and the situation for all that time has been that we need to open and close 2 gates to get into our property, with access over the neighbours drive. Basically I drive up to their gate off the main road, open it, get back in the car, drive through, close it, walk to my gate, open it, drive through then close my gate. A nuisance but we knew it would be a pest when we bought the house. They had a little dog at the time but it was hardly ever out. Then 3 years ago they got a big woofy hound that they leave out so we invariably have to wait for them to catch the dog and put it in before we can get in or out. We can never leave either gate open, even if we’re just popping out for 5 mins in case they let their dogs out and they would either get on to the road or into our garden (we have 2 dogs). There are 2 other properties who have the same access over their drive and the same issues with the gates and dogs. The gates were never there, my neighbour installed them when their son was little with the permission of the people who had access but it was supposed to be a temporary measure. Then they got the dogs and the disputes started (before our time). They are now selling their house and we asked if they could please tell any prospective buyers that the gates would be going as they were such a nuisance for everyone and they were only ever supposed to be temporary. She agreed but is desperate to sell so basically hasn’t really mentioned it to viewers and now they have buyers who want to keep the gates as they have a dog. We, and the other neighbours found out and have written to the current neighbours and the estate agent so it’s now a dispute. She thinks we’re totally out of order and ‘shits’ for potentially jeopardizing her sale. But she’s broken promises and lied. She seems totally oblivious of the constant nuisance that they cause all the neighbours. But I don’t want to jeopardize their move I just think the gates should be gone.
What a long boring post! But she and her husband have just knocked on the door and think we’re the worst people in the world. Are we?

Well ✅ done

But you're still going to get the neighbor to remove the gate before the sale surely? Otherwise the new owner very reasonably could argue they've been sold the house with gate and refuse to remove it? Then you'll be in dispute with a new neighbour who isn't going anywhere?

I'd be telling the new people that there is a dispute going on. I bet the neighbours haven't mentioned this.

As per Devlesko I'll bet your neighbours won't be telling the new owners that their dogs can't run free (they'll probably use dog leads until they leave to appease you, but new owners will still think they have the same right to let their dogs roam). The gate needs to be removed so that everyone's access is crystal clear.

I'd say electric gates are the solution if it's going to compromise a sale.

I don't think this is a solution unless it's made clear to the new owners before the sale

This isn't a solution, it's an appeasement to get their sale through. The gates will still be there and no guarantee the next owners will do the same

It’s a PITA situation but if they own the land and you have access surely they are entitled legally to use their land as they want (ie as a massive dog run ) ?

@Shortfeet

No, they have bought two bits of land, one is private and nobody has rights over it, the other (the access bit) is burdened with access rights for two other properties. There is no way for those access rights to be cancelled or changed without the permission of the two other neighbours. Land with burdens is often land that people don't want as the last thing you can do with it is 'use it as they want'. The land had to belong to someone so it's legally been allocated to the middle house, but it's effectively communal land - certainly not land that they can let their pets run around on and expect their neighbours to make allowances for.

Don't really understand why its a big deal, ifs communal land with access rights used for the purpose of 3 properties having stressing. Not for dogs. Rip down the gates or start leaving them open.

My house comes with an alley at the back for access to gardens with 2 other neighbours. I was looking to make it look nicer with better raving but after seeking advice told not to touch it for various reason and future legal problems. Not even fixing a gate at the entrance. Too much hassle.

I think its bloody cheeky that your access is being used for personal use I.e. the dogs. Thsts what the private garden is for.

@Chocolatedeficitdisorder thanks for explaining.
In that case they are CFs !

Both barristers !!

Exceptionally CFs

I feel for you op and YADNBU.

Are you sure their dogs don’t have royal blood? kind of looks like they are wearing some form of Crown. If so this could become even more complex and delicate !!

Leave gates open in the morning when you leave / just don’t close them. When house sale finished just padlock them open permanently

The fact they are barrister and have come back with this solution rather than they are within their rights to have the gate and their animals roam free would have me looking at the deeds and covenant very carefully - perhaps they are not legally permitted to have a gate at all due to the main road and it has been specified.

@RandomMess

The fact they are barrister and have come back with this solution rather than they are within their rights to have the gate and their animals roam free would have me looking at the deeds and covenant very carefully - perhaps they are not legally permitted to have a gate at all due to the main road and it has been specified.

I've just been reading this thread and that thought occurred to me as well. If letting the dogs roam in the access road was permitted, you can bet they'd be loudly telling the OP this.

I think if the gate were permitted they would be screaming that at them as well...

@NoSleepInTheHeat

*I'd get together with neighbours to write a letter. Wef x date we will no longer be beeping to get the gate opened. If it's closed we will open it and leave it open. Please ensure your dogs safety*

Yes, do this.
Maybe also leave the gate open on purpose when you see that the dogs are inside, so no risk to them, but hopefully it will make them realize they can't rely on people closing the gate.

the trouble is, this sounds great, but it is, unfortunately illegal.

They are allowed the gate under law. It is their land, they are allowed to put a gate across as long as the people with right of access can still use it. They are required to shut the gate.

It is the loose dogs which hinder their free right of access which is a problem, and now they have put the dogs on leads, and they will not free roam, that is not a problem.

Just because we don't think they are doing a nice thing, doesn't mean that they are wrong under law.

It still depends on exactly what is written about the access on the deeds, though. Which is ehy I think OP should take a look at her deeds to see the actual wording.

Thinking outside the box, surely the obvious answer is a dog tunnel from the house to the garden so that NDN can let dogs out without leaving their house...

If the gate is more than 1m high or if the “busy road “ is classified - A B or C the neighbours did anything to alter the access when installing the gates then that needs planning permission. OP I would check for this .

I live at the end of a shared access way so I cross two driveways. The access way is "owned" on the deeds of only one of the three houses. Her deeds clearly state that she cannot obstruct access to the other two houses. All the of us are responsible for upkeep of this area of driveway even though only one person technically owns it. We had neighbours from hell at one point who tried to obstruct access after they moved in. Thank goodness they have now gone and we have lovely neighbours again. Can you get a copy of the deeds from the Land registry and check the wording? If its anything like ours those existing gates aren't legal and need to go. This should all be picked up by any prospective buyer as their solicitor should talk to them about the shared access way and their responsibility regarding this.

Thank you everyone some great legal advice of things to check out. I’m mostly ok with the gates staying as they were there when we bought the house, it would just be good if their default position was closed rather than open! I just couldn’t bear the thought of new dogs running round the access area when we found out the buyers wanted to keep the gates as they had a dog 😫 so we had to send the letter about the free running dogs. Someone commented before about their house not really being suitable for dog owners and it really isn’t. Apparently the new people are very paranoid as they have had a dog run over in the past so frankly the house is the last place I would buy!

I meant open rather than closed!

So really the gates need to be taken out before the new owners arrive. Or their expectation to be that they are open.

Now the neighbours say the dogs are always on leads the gates to the road CAN be left open and the risk is placed back on them to shut them.

I really would make sure this is resolved before the new people move in.

Apparently the new people are very paranoid as they have had a dog run over in the past so frankly the house is the last place I would buy!

How do you know this? I agree it's the last place I would buy! Seems bonkers.