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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Access across neighbours land

180 replies

user1483782091 · 09/11/2020 18:31

Bit of a long story, my first post. Not sure if my neighbour is on here or not but I guess irrelevant. We’ve been in our house 5 years and the situation for all that time has been that we need to open and close 2 gates to get into our property, with access over the neighbours drive. Basically I drive up to their gate off the main road, open it, get back in the car, drive through, close it, walk to my gate, open it, drive through then close my gate. A nuisance but we knew it would be a pest when we bought the house. They had a little dog at the time but it was hardly ever out. Then 3 years ago they got a big woofy hound that they leave out so we invariably have to wait for them to catch the dog and put it in before we can get in or out. We can never leave either gate open, even if we’re just popping out for 5 mins in case they let their dogs out and they would either get on to the road or into our garden (we have 2 dogs). There are 2 other properties who have the same access over their drive and the same issues with the gates and dogs. The gates were never there, my neighbour installed them when their son was little with the permission of the people who had access but it was supposed to be a temporary measure. Then they got the dogs and the disputes started (before our time). They are now selling their house and we asked if they could please tell any prospective buyers that the gates would be going as they were such a nuisance for everyone and they were only ever supposed to be temporary. She agreed but is desperate to sell so basically hasn’t really mentioned it to viewers and now they have buyers who want to keep the gates as they have a dog. We, and the other neighbours found out and have written to the current neighbours and the estate agent so it’s now a dispute. She thinks we’re totally out of order and ‘shits’ for potentially jeopardizing her sale. But she’s broken promises and lied. She seems totally oblivious of the constant nuisance that they cause all the neighbours. But I don’t want to jeopardize their move I just think the gates should be gone.
What a long boring post! But she and her husband have just knocked on the door and think we’re the worst people in the world. Are we?

OP posts:
tara66 · 09/11/2020 19:51

You all need to get the matter sorted through a solicitor with everyone's right to access over the land being defined and also stipulating that those with right to access should not be impeded by gates or dogs etc. Electric gates are OK but expensive and don't work all the time. The neighbour with the gates needs to know what the situation is legally before trying to sell the problem on. The resolution for this matter should be in writing and copies kept with everyone's Deeds.

ApplestheHare · 09/11/2020 19:55

When we bought this house, the NDN had taken the previous owners to court for the same thing you're unhappy about. We were given the judgement on the case as part of buying this property and there's a legal precedent that says your neighbours are within their rights to keep the gates. It goes as far as to say they could add a lock and, as long as they gave you a key, they'd still be within their rights.

I can understand why it's annoying you but unfortunately, legally, I don't think you'll get far.

LemonadeFromLemons · 09/11/2020 19:55

So basically your neighbours would rather inconvenience three other families than themselves... they could after all put the dogs in their garden section periodically and leave the driveway clear.

Chocolatedeficitdisorder · 09/11/2020 19:56

I’d be tempted to go down a formal route of solicitors letter telling them (or new owner) that either gate is removed or you will no longer be cooperating by closing them after use. Give them a date.

This.

Staffy1 · 09/11/2020 19:58

What a weird set up. It must be a nuisance for the neighbour who has to have everyone accessing their land to get to their houses.

blubberyboo · 09/11/2020 20:07

Yanbu

And have the new buyers not considered that they are going to have to stop what they are doing 20 times a day every time 3 other households want in or out?

The good thing is that the neighbours now realise none of you are happy and that only they have benefited from current arrangement and if they aren’t selling they can expect to have to make changes

blubberyboo · 09/11/2020 20:10

Also in later life some of the neighbours won’t be physically able to jump in and out of cars to close gates. If they want them closed they should be coming out to do it

MrsSpringfield · 09/11/2020 20:10

YANBU. And should kick up a fuss about this. The houses with access across their land should have free access to come and go as you please without waiting about for them to sort their pets out and having to get in and out to open the gate.

Silvershimmering · 09/11/2020 20:11

@user1483782091

Yes absolutely they could put their dogs in their garden, not in the access driveway. Sorry I don’t know how to reply directly to someone’s comment
So they could have solved the problem, years ago, buy putting their own dogs, in their own enclosed garden, called Neighbours Garden in the diagram?
Original poster
user1483782091 · 09/11/2020 20:11

@ApplestheHare

When we bought this house, the NDN had taken the previous owners to court for the same thing you're unhappy about. We were given the judgement on the case as part of buying this property and there's a legal precedent that says your neighbours are within their rights to keep the gates. It goes as far as to say they could add a lock and, as long as they gave you a key, they'd still be within their rights.

I can understand why it's annoying you but unfortunately, legally, I don't think you'll get far.

Yes we have a situation on the other side of our house where there is an alleyway on our title but the property next door has always used it for access and their bins. They put a gate on it and we have the key should we need to access it (we rarely do). I guess I didn't want this to all go down a legal route, I just wanted people to be reasonable or to agree when an issue wasn't reasonable. I'm all for live and let live and try to be good neighbours and not be shits unless people really don't have an inkling at how selfish they're being!
OP posts:
Silvershimmering · 09/11/2020 20:12

YANBU

yvanka · 09/11/2020 20:12

I would go round with the other neighbour and inform them that you will no longer be beeping to enter or shutting the gate. Their dog is their responsibility.

Original poster
user1483782091 · 09/11/2020 20:16

They could fix up the garden gates and put the dogs in their own garden (neighbours garden) but they say they don't want to because they would have to physically put the dogs into their garden rather than just letting the dogs out the back door. They say they don't want to do this as they would still always worry that someone would open their back door (?!) and without the gate there, their dogs would be straight on to the road.

OP posts:
ConquestEmpireHungerPlague · 09/11/2020 20:16

Wow, they are CFs and you and the other neighbours have been way nicer about their dogs' safety than they had any right to expect. It's their responsibility to cater for their dogs in a way that negates the need for the gate. I think I would have been wary of the temporary gate tbh, as it had all the hallmarks of something that would become permanent, but that was before your time and it's water under the bridge now. Agree with pp that it's time to read them the riot act and the gates need to go, unless changed to electronic, and the dogs need to stop being in that communal area unsupervised. I love your diagram btw. Smile

TwoLeftSocksWithHoles · 09/11/2020 20:16

Well I have to say, on examining the diagram, you have specified 'Mad Dogs' but a close look shows one happy smiley dog and one that just looks a little bit dispondent. That's not really 'mad' is it (IMO).
Have I missed the point. Again?

StoneofDestiny · 09/11/2020 20:17

Your neighbour only has the self to blame if their sale goes belly up - they were happy to ship out and leave you with a problem! Now they have to sort the problem.

mineofuselessinformation · 09/11/2020 20:17

^ This.
I'd notify them in writing that you will no longer seek to have the dogs put away before exercising your right to access.
They are relying on your and the other neighbours' goodwill to ensure their dogs don't get harmed. If you can get the other neighbours on board to join in and send their own letters, do it.
They will likely give in.

Confrontayshunme · 09/11/2020 20:21

Agree with previous posters that you have no real obligation to close the main gate. Dog escapes a few times, and they will sort it.

ChaosMoon · 09/11/2020 20:23

Yep. Stop closing the gates. The dogs are in when you open them, so it's the owners job to close them before they let the dogs out again. I'd agree this with all the other (nice) neighbours and then arrange a rota for someone to go out every half hour. At least. You could put bets on how long it takes them to sort it out. I reckon it'll be under a week.

WiddlinDiddlin · 09/11/2020 20:25

Seems a bit shit that you get to have dogs you can just open your back door to let out, the other neighbours can do that, but the middle house can't...

Electric gates and add a third gate, assuming the middle house has a back door facing their garden, so their dogs can then be let out into the middle section, the people coming in can press a button to get into the 'airlock' area which will never have dogs in it, close it via button, open your own gate drive through.. job done.

The other people can do same but access the new gate, after closing teh road gate, but they will have to faff about ensuring neighbour dogs are the right side of that gate when they go through, and not run over neighbour dogs.

But that does then mean everyone can have dogs without anyones dogs being let out onto the road.

Obvs, middle house pays for road gate and centre gate, houses needing the access pay for their own gates only.

Original poster
user1483782091 · 09/11/2020 20:25

@TwoLeftSocksWithHoles

Well I have to say, on examining the diagram, you have specified 'Mad Dogs' but a close look shows one happy smiley dog and one that just looks a little bit dispondent. That's not really 'mad' is it (IMO). Have I missed the point. Again?
Ha thanks made me chuckle! Diffusing the dispute stress, well, that or the few glasses of wine :-)
OP posts:
Flutter12 · 09/11/2020 20:26

I’m with you OP but if this neighbour isn’t budging then would it be better to wait for the new, hopefully more reasonable neighbours.

If it was me I wouldn’t want my dogs running around with cars and where people could accidentally leave the gates open so the new neighbours might be the same.

jetadore · 09/11/2020 20:29

Would the gates be acceptable without the dogs? ( I.e. no waiting around for them to herd the dogs, not having dogs in access area).

Anyway this is your opportunity to hange the status quo, so I'd dig your heels in on this dispute and get rid of the gates before it becomes 'custom and practice' with the new neighbour.

Original poster
user1483782091 · 09/11/2020 20:30

@WiddlinDiddlin

Seems a bit shit that you get to have dogs you can just open your back door to let out, the other neighbours can do that, but the middle house can't...

Electric gates and add a third gate, assuming the middle house has a back door facing their garden, so their dogs can then be let out into the middle section, the people coming in can press a button to get into the 'airlock' area which will never have dogs in it, close it via button, open your own gate drive through.. job done.

The other people can do same but access the new gate, after closing teh road gate, but they will have to faff about ensuring neighbour dogs are the right side of that gate when they go through, and not run over neighbour dogs.

But that does then mean everyone can have dogs without anyones dogs being let out onto the road.

Obvs, middle house pays for road gate and centre gate, houses needing the access pay for their own gates only.

In theory a great idea but there's not the space, it's quite poky and that would also mean that the other neighbours would have to open 3 gates: the one off the road, the airlock gate and then the gate into theirs. It would be fine for me though!
OP posts:
Chocolatedeficitdisorder · 09/11/2020 20:30

What a weird set up. It must be a nuisance for the neighbour who has to have everyone accessing their land to get to their houses.

Their house would have been valued accordingly, just as terraced houses are which have a right of way for their neighbours to go past their back doors.

These neighbours want the priority of use of land which is designated to serve the access needs of 3 houses. They are the servient property and the other two are dominant. It's their land on paper, but there's not a lot they can do with it as others have an superior claim on it's use.

Basically, it belongs to them because it's convenient to put it on the deeds, but it's not theirs to use as they please.

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