Access across neighbours land

[user1483782091]

Bit of a long story, my first post. Not sure if my neighbour is on here or not but I guess irrelevant. We’ve been in our house 5 years and the situation for all that time has been that we need to open and close 2 gates to get into our property, with access over the neighbours drive. Basically I drive up to their gate off the main road, open it, get back in the car, drive through, close it, walk to my gate, open it, drive through then close my gate. A nuisance but we knew it would be a pest when we bought the house. They had a little dog at the time but it was hardly ever out. Then 3 years ago they got a big woofy hound that they leave out so we invariably have to wait for them to catch the dog and put it in before we can get in or out. We can never leave either gate open, even if we’re just popping out for 5 mins in case they let their dogs out and they would either get on to the road or into our garden (we have 2 dogs). There are 2 other properties who have the same access over their drive and the same issues with the gates and dogs. The gates were never there, my neighbour installed them when their son was little with the permission of the people who had access but it was supposed to be a temporary measure. Then they got the dogs and the disputes started (before our time). They are now selling their house and we asked if they could please tell any prospective buyers that the gates would be going as they were such a nuisance for everyone and they were only ever supposed to be temporary. She agreed but is desperate to sell so basically hasn’t really mentioned it to viewers and now they have buyers who want to keep the gates as they have a dog. We, and the other neighbours found out and have written to the current neighbours and the estate agent so it’s now a dispute. She thinks we’re totally out of order and ‘shits’ for potentially jeopardizing her sale. But she’s broken promises and lied. She seems totally oblivious of the constant nuisance that they cause all the neighbours. But I don’t want to jeopardize their move I just think the gates should be gone.
What a long boring post! But she and her husband have just knocked on the door and think we’re the worst people in the world. Are we?

Don't try to 'fix' the problem for the neighbours. Get them to remove the temporary gates.

Do not try be 'reasonable' by accommodating their wishes or make concessions based on an assumption that the new neighbours will be reasonable. There is a reason property rights are codified in law. You cannot rely on a shared perception of what is reasonable. Do this now before the sale because you will be amazed how quickly people can act when they have an incentive.

Require the neighbours to be as reasonable towards you as you have been towards them. Insist they remove the temporary gates now that they are not needed to protect their child.

You don't need to be outspoken. Just inflexible and quietly insistent.

So they've blocked off an access way,. And instead of thanking you for putting up with it for 10 years... They're now complaining that you won't put up with it indefinitely under a new owner?

This is why keeping things simple (i.e. your home's previous owner) shouldn't have muddied the water by trying to be "nice" - it just breeds a sense of entitlement where later you look like the bad guy!

I would be referring this to the legal situation i.e. what do title deeds say, and expect to have that complied with. Otherwise you're going to have to put up with this permanently & this "temporary" request will be a PITA when you sell.

I hope where you are living is your 'forever' home because I think you would find it very difficult to sell with its current access.

They have not blocked an access by putting a gate on that the OP and the other relevant house can open and close.

Unless the deeds specifically say a gate cannot be put up of course.

They DO have a legal responsibility to keep their animals in and off the road, so putting up a gate is the sensible thing to do - I note the OP has a gate for similar reasons.

If its electric gates though, its pressing a button, driving through, pressing it again, pressing the next button...

I suspect irritating middle dogs could be lured into the right place before closing gate 2 with a well timed and well lobbed biscuit which negates the need to get out of the car at all, unless the other neighbours decide not to install electric gate on their own bit, which is entirely their choice.

In the High Court case of Kingsgate Development Projects Ltd v Jordan and Another [2017] EWHC 343 (TCC), the principle that was upheld was that there can be no substantial interference with an express right of way if the right of way can still be practically and substantially exercised as conveniently as before despite any obstruction, for example a gate. The question that courts should consider will be not whether the beneficiary of the right of way is left with a reasonable right, but whether insisting on an unrestricted right of way is reasonable. The burden is therefore on the beneficiary to show it is reasonable to insist on a right of way without the relevant obstruction.

www.fladgate.com/2017/05/rights-of-way-what-limitations-can-landowners-impose/

They bought a house with a garden across a road. That's their problem, not yours

They DO have a legal responsibility to keep their animals in and off the road, so putting up a gate is the sensible thing to do

They shouldn't be allowing their dogs to roam free on a communal access and expect others to wait until the dogs are secure before they can get to their properties. They have their own private garden which can be made secure for their dogs, just as the other neighbours have theirs.

The OP doesn't seem to be protesting about the gate, or even about closing it - her problem (and her neighbours) is that they're stuck outside their homes having to wait until the neighbours put their dog away.

They have a right to use the access at any time and shouldn't have to wait.

They say they don't want to do this as they would still always worry that someone would open their back door (?!) and without the gate there, their dogs would be straight on to the road.

Well then they should lock their door.

If that's really their concern, I'd be fitting a padlock to the main gate, giving them the only key and putting my hand over the horn every single time I wanted in until they came out. They can come out, open it and shut it to make sure their dogs are safe. I'd do this regularly at all times of the day, even night time. They'll get fed up very quickly. Simples.

Oh and of course any new owners of said house and gate would also have to follow this rule.

I’m not sure if the legal position, so can’t really comment re whether you can enforce removal or not. Although it does sound very annoying, I’m not sure you have any right to be up in arms about it though, given that you bought your house in the full knowledge that the gates were there.

However, if there is a legally enforceable way of forcing neighbours to remove the gates then you are within your rights to proceed down that road if you want to.

If they can’t sell you may have an interesting time with your neighbours, but that’s as much (if not more so) their problem as it is yours.

The Gardenlaw forum 'rights of way' section has many knowledgeable posters who can help you with this issue.

Your neighbour with the dogs is taking the piss. They are CFers for inhibiting your access, because they dont want to walk their dogs across to the garden.

If I were them I’d honestly rather walk my dogs to my own enclosed bit of garden than deal with living the dogs multiple times per day for the neighbours.

If they are worried about someone accessing their back door I can only assume it has a lock which can be used?

Sounds like they feel their needs/wants proceed anyone else’s.

Moving (not living)

Sounds like they feel their needs/wants proceed anyone else’s.

They seem to believe that the access land they 'own' has benefits instead of burdens.

They're wrong.

Your neighbour needs a Cattle Grid.

no need for a gate. Get the right type and dogs can't cross them

no need for a gate. Get the right type and dogs can't cross them

Human visitors are also entitled to walk around the access without being approached by free-range dogs. The Postman has 3 homes to deliver mail to.

My partial solution would be for you to consider moving your own gate further into your property, and create a parking bay on your own land, but fenced outside of the new gate.

I have done something similar.

What crappy dog owners that cba to walk 6ft to ensure their dogs safety in their own garden.

It just isn't a suitable house for dogs. How has a delivery driver never left one open by accident?

Presuming you legally have access over the land I wonder what if a case could be made for the dogs not being let loose in that area as it impinges on your use of it?

@Confrontayshunme

Agree with previous posters that you have no real obligation to close the main gate. Dog escapes a few times, and they will sort it.

As long as it doesn't bother you when the dogs get killed on the road.

Why can’t you make a new access to right of your house and directly into your garden? Then close off other doggy access??

Cattle grid is genius !