Access across neighbours land

[user1483782091]

Bit of a long story, my first post. Not sure if my neighbour is on here or not but I guess irrelevant. We’ve been in our house 5 years and the situation for all that time has been that we need to open and close 2 gates to get into our property, with access over the neighbours drive. Basically I drive up to their gate off the main road, open it, get back in the car, drive through, close it, walk to my gate, open it, drive through then close my gate. A nuisance but we knew it would be a pest when we bought the house. They had a little dog at the time but it was hardly ever out. Then 3 years ago they got a big woofy hound that they leave out so we invariably have to wait for them to catch the dog and put it in before we can get in or out. We can never leave either gate open, even if we’re just popping out for 5 mins in case they let their dogs out and they would either get on to the road or into our garden (we have 2 dogs). There are 2 other properties who have the same access over their drive and the same issues with the gates and dogs. The gates were never there, my neighbour installed them when their son was little with the permission of the people who had access but it was supposed to be a temporary measure. Then they got the dogs and the disputes started (before our time). They are now selling their house and we asked if they could please tell any prospective buyers that the gates would be going as they were such a nuisance for everyone and they were only ever supposed to be temporary. She agreed but is desperate to sell so basically hasn’t really mentioned it to viewers and now they have buyers who want to keep the gates as they have a dog. We, and the other neighbours found out and have written to the current neighbours and the estate agent so it’s now a dispute. She thinks we’re totally out of order and ‘shits’ for potentially jeopardizing her sale. But she’s broken promises and lied. She seems totally oblivious of the constant nuisance that they cause all the neighbours. But I don’t want to jeopardize their move I just think the gates should be gone.
What a long boring post! But she and her husband have just knocked on the door and think we’re the worst people in the world. Are we?

Could whoever wants the gates pay to have the changed to electric ones? And everyone with access gets the key?

I would be in agreement with you . I bet there is something in the title deeds that covers the issue. The gates should go . It’s their responsibility to keep dogs safe .

@Hereward1332

Not sure you have an obligation to close the gates. That statement might discourage them from letting dogs roam. Whether you would follow through is a different matter.

My husband and the other neighbours said this but no one wants their dogs to come to any harm so we just carry on shutting the bloody gates!

It looks like their garden is away from the house is that correct so the other neighbours drive between their house and their garden? Is their garden fenced off??
If so then surely they just fence their garden in and walk dogs to it and shut them in?

That would drive me mad having to wait for someone to lock their dogs away before I could come and go.

I bet the title deeds say easement only

@VettiyaIruken

Can the fence be moved so it creates a secure area of garden for them and leaves the access road unfenced/ungated?

They already have a gate into their garden but they never use it. Also they wouldn’t be able to just open their back door and let the dogs out, they’d have to put them in the garden

Could whoever wants the gates pay to have the changed to electric ones? And everyone with access gets the key?

That doesn't help with the dog issue though, does it?

AFAIK, they have no right to obstruct your right of way with gates, although a gate doesn't necessarily count as an obstruction if you and your visitors can open if freely.

What you don't have to do is close it. Ever.

It looks as if the houses were set up in such a way that the drive is communal (albeit on their deeds) and everyone has their own garden. The owners of the (drive-owning) house also knew this when they bough their house and they've been very, very lucky to have neighbours who have been willing to go along with the dog-catching games. It's definitely time for it to stop.

Nope YANBU. Several good suggestions here. Keep the existing access route but fenced off from everyone so the dogs can roam and get electric gates to make life easier. Or, you and other NDNs put in direct access to your gardens from the main road. This is probably the most expensive for you but much less faff long term. Is it possible or is there a hidden cliff not on your diagram? Is there a reason why the existing access is the way it is? It seems a really awkward way of doing it. Good luck OP

Totally ridiculous that you are expected to sit in your car and wait for them to round up their dogs. The gates need to go and they need to secure their own garden for their dogs. People shouldn't always be scared to start a dispute with unreasonable neighbours.

You're fine Op. The gates have to go and the neighbours need to put their dogs in their garden, not let them roam loose over what's pretty much a shared driveway. It's great that your other neighbours are tackling this head-on before new people move in so there can be no misunderstandings. Ideally the gates need to be gone sooner rather than later so they aren't there when the new lot move in.

I think it depends on the deeds and what they say to be honest. Is it their land you all having a right of access. My understanding is that if they own it (rather than it being shared) that they have a right to the use and benefit of their land, they're still letting you all pass, it's not like they lock the gates and don't let you through unless they're home

whilst it's a PITA for everyone else, the neighbour, with gates closed, has the same benefits as you as in a gated driveway.

However I don't think the dogs being out all the time is fair as there's an alternative and it puts a pressure on you neighbours to care foe their pets that can be unpredictable as they're not your pets and you're not their 'pack' and what if they escape whilst you're trying to navigate the gates if they don't answer the doors immediately? That pet definitely needs to be stopped.
It must be a bloody nightmare to sell, what a crappy situation!
Saying that, if the neighbours have Become unreasonable then just do your best to get rid of them and hope your new ones are better behaved!

Some posters really need to RTFT. It's really easy, just click on "see all" to see Op's responses re electric gates, alternative access etc...

@Ellmau

Could whoever wants the gates pay to have the changed to electric ones? And everyone with access gets the key?

Yes in theory but it’s not the opening of the gate that’s the issue (although it is annoying!) it’s waiting for the dogs to be put in. So there would still be that issue

I would ask your neighbours to position the gates so that their dogs are in their own garden and this would leave the drive free for everyone. The dogs would be secure and it will sort out the easement issues if you or your other neighbour want to sell.

Surely the point of access is to have access? Using it only at the given nod of the cf ndn is an offence imo.. What if an ambulance /other needed to be in? Ddogs needs put in the garden..
Def looks like a Doberman on the left op!!

Thank you everyone for taking the time to read the story and give your opinion. I feel marginally better that we’re not being unreasonable. I feel terrible that their sale could potentially fail because of a neighbour dispute as they’re desperate to move and from an entirely selfish point of view, we’d still be left with the nuisance dogs. And a terrible relationship with our immediate neighbours 😫 But I do think they’ve been a bit selfish and inconsiderate

@DynamoKev, I know, they’re so cute! How can she be scared of them..???

When I first read the post I thought you were being a bit unreasonable but with the update of the picture they are being massive CF!

YANBU!

I really wouldn’t want to be waiting on a busy road for these cheeky fuckers to move their dogs ONTO THEIR OWN PROPERTY. Its an accident waiting to happen and would drive me insane. Do you have to beep horn or call them or something?

I’d be tempted to go down a formal route of solicitors letter telling them (or new owner) that either gate is removed or you will no longer be cooperating by closing them after use. Give them a date. Stick to your word. There is absolutely no reason why they can’t keep their dogs in their own garden. Do they shit all over the drive too??

We viewed a house recently with a similar set up to this, the houses were 2-300 years old and some were converted barns. No gates though, just a random collection of gardens that weren’t directly next to houses which seems to be the same set up as your neighbour. I would think the land needs to be left ‘open’ for access and I think your other neighbour was right to dispute.

Neighbours need to put their dogs in their garden area so gates can be left open! YANBU!

We have a similar arrangement, only our neighbours have installed electric gates at the communal entrance, which we have a fob and intercom for, and their big, scary dog is ALWAYS secure behind their separate gate. I am in and out several times each day, so it would be a full-time job For them to catch the dog if it wasn’t kept safely elsewhere. Hopefully the new purchaser will simply keep their dog in their own garden - cant see how anyone would want to be catching the dog multiple times a day for several neighbours. How bizarre!

@Redtartanshoes

I really wouldn’t want to be waiting on a busy road for these cheeky fuckers to move their dogs ONTO THEIR OWN PROPERTY. Its an accident waiting to happen and would drive me insane. Do you have to beep horn or call them or something?

I’d be tempted to go down a formal route of solicitors letter telling them (or new owner) that either gate is removed or you will no longer be cooperating by closing them after use. Give them a date. Stick to your word. There is absolutely no reason why they can’t keep their dogs in their own garden. Do they shit all over the drive too??

Yes we have to beep the horn (or shout if we’re walking through) and yes the shot has bern an issue, especially for one of the other neighbours who works shifts and is walking through to open his gate in the dark 💩 they are not ALWAYS out but out enough for it to be a nuisance. They also bark a lot but that’s a whole other issue 😂

Your neighbours are bonkers. They really should sort out a secure place for their dogs to roam free, not expect you to jump over these hoops. They're idiots and they need to bloody sort it BEFORE they sell.