To want to know if the Republicans have any grounds to suspect fraud

[DynamoKev]

Not a fan of either Trump or Biden.

Due to Trump's pathetic behaviour it is easy to dismiss his claims.

But some claims (if true) seem to be worthy of investigation.

I am absolutely not a Trump supporter, but I am very passionate about justice and legitimacy.
Passionate but utterly ill informed / mis informed

Go and educate yourself for a few weeks

Well someone is going to call into the trump campaigns election fraud call centre and feed them the evidence they need.
Or maybe just more tales about how they saw a shifty guy stuffing the ballot box while dressed in black and white stripes eating a hamburger

If you have evidence to actually get to the Supreme Court why would you need a fraud tips line?

Well someone is going to call into the trump campaigns election fraud call centre and feed them the evidence they need.

Of course. There's going to be no shortage of people willing to perjure themselves in the interest of the campaign.

I just have absolute confidence that the justice system will handle all of that as appropriate. Today is the day election results can begin to be certified and the courts are working on a deadline, so this isn't going to linger.

No how this should be settled is the Republican Party realising that going down the legal route is only going to cause further division in the US and a potential look at and overhaul afterwards of the College system (something that they do not want).

Trump isnt the Republican Party - this isnt how they should want to behave and the number of states that would need to have proven electoral fraud that high up Democrats knew about is high.

The US system hasnt been truly just and legitimate for awhile - and it is in the Republican favour at the moment. How much do they want to push this house of cards.

They can then regroup and find a far less divisive candidate for 2024, someone who can bring the middle back over to there side (particularly given that the Democrats are likely to be shifting towards Kamala Harris).

That is the right move for the country. This is all the move that Trump wants to do. He is just one perso

Lunchtime reading
twitter.com/totalseasons

gwen I am not a US citizen, and so I do not feel very strongly either way about this election. I have concerns about the climate and NATO etc so you might say given the two I would much prefer Mr Biden, but I am relaxed either way. There are good and bad points to both contestants - and that is an understatement. As I feel neither are truly deserving - but we are going off the subject.

I believe it was incompetence yes, because it was obvious and has been for years that the postal system has been left wide open to systematic abuse. It is also the case here in the UK, so it is not unique to the US. It was also raised at the 2016 election as you remember. Almost everyone knows this.

However, it is only really an issue this time because of covid.
We do not normally see such huge, huge numbers voting this way. It would be obvious to anyone that the abuse was possible, even to be expected during such a contested, emotional bloodbath of an election. So when it happened almost no one was surprised, and the legal action that will flow from this is long overdue in my view.

Who wins, that is for the courts to decide based on the facts and evidence. But this does need to happen.

If nothing else the US after this should have a watertight voting system - it is a shame it has come to this though.

@Ihaveyourback

It is interesting you are saying the Republicans have been involved in wide spread fraud, one has to question why Mr Biden is not calling for legal action of his own? I don't see him lodging any claims to fraud so far, so I think that theory has very little merit.

Indeed I am keen to see a legal conclusion, because I know that is the only way this will ever be truly settled. Any reasoned person would expect any fraud claims to be investigated, and a court hearing to follow.

I am absolutely not a Trump supporter, but I am very passionate about justice and legitimacy. Whatever the court concludes will be very reassuring to the nation, and I for one have far more confidence and conviction in the result, whatever that may be.

Because the widespread fraud committed by the Republicans is systemic - gerrymandering, voter suppression etc. The Democrats need to get into power to address that, it can't be done through the courts.

The claims are being heard, and they are being rejected. What is your threshold for believing the matter to be resolved?

There was an article on this in the Times today - a reputable source, in my opinion. In it, they said the following:

"Is voter fraud a big problem in the US?

There is no empirical evidence that voter fraud occurs frequently enough to affect American elections. A 2017 study by the Brennan Centre for Justice found that the rate of fraud is les than 0.0009%.

Have there been any ballot problems this year?

A few, owing to the surge in demand for postal votes as a result of the pandemic. Virginia sent out 500,000 absentee ballot application forms with incorrect return addresses before correcting the mistake. In Franklin county Ohio, and in New York, thousands of erroneous ballots were sent out, before being resent with safeguards in place."

This does not sound like evidence of widespread fraud to me.

Interestingly, the only fraudulent activity I read about before polling day was the fake deposit boxes for postal votes, that were placed in some communities by the Republicans - presumably hoping that voters would post their ballots in there, instead of in the proper place, so they wouldn't get submitted and counted.

Because the widespread fraud committed by the Republicans is systemic - gerrymandering, voter suppression etc

If that was happening - as you claim then that would be a POLICE matter I think you will find.

I'm not a supporter of either particularly and I dislike Biden even more than Trump, which is really saying something. I do think however that if they have been found to be cheating and Biden does not take up post, the civil unrest really would be catastrophic. I really hope that this is not found to be the case.

Ihaveyourback
GOP gerrymandering has gone to the Supreme court many times.
(hence the PA redistricting and the fact that unconvicted prisoners can now vote)

You REALLY need to educate yourself before commenting any further.
Bye.

Do you understand what gerrymandering redistricting and voter suppression are? Because no, they are not POLICE matters, they are both legislative.

@Ihaveyourback

Because the widespread fraud committed by the Republicans is systemic - gerrymandering, voter suppression etc

If that was happening - as you claim then that would be a POLICE matter I think you will find.

OK I'm not sure you understand what I mean. Gerrymandering refers to the way electoral districts are drawn - the Republicans have spent many years ensuring that they are favourable to them. Voter suppression refers to the way minority voters are purged from voter rolls (see Georgia 2018) or the way in which polling stations are closed down in minority areas. There are a multitude of 'legal' ways like this that the Republicans manipulate the vote.

Not to mention the Electoral College system as a whole, and the Senate which gives a rural, conservative state like Wyoming with a population of half a million, the same number of Senators as California which has nearly 40 million people.

Voter suppression through force is a police matter

Voter suppression through force isn't what anyone is discussing.

@Ihaveyourback

Voter suppression through force is a police matter

You really need to do some more reading up!

I do think however that if they have been found to be cheating and Biden does not take up post, the civil unrest really would be catastrophic

I am not worried about this, because I think the same could be said if the court hearing does not take place. That is a much bigger risk to unrest.
We would hope the evidence either way will speak for itself.
I am not sure either party would feel comfortable with widespread fraud that undermines the democratic processes if proved, whatever the court ruling.

We will have to see what happens.

I assumed you were talking about the armed supporters stopping people from voting. That should be a police matter.

No how this should be settled is the Republican Party realising that going down the legal route is only going to cause further division in the US and a potential look at and overhaul afterwards of the College system (something that they do not want)

Ok the problem is that they will lose the loyalty of their voting base. If the GOP is not seen as defending the interests of their voters, they will have a hell of a time rallying them for 2022.

Trump isnt the Republican Party

The GOP doesn’t really want to test this .... Trump re-energized the party with big gains among minorities and they will likely not be able to hold that. The country club GOPers have a big decision to make here

It certainly seemed to be a problem when the democrats were losing!!! but suddenly isn't a problem now. I see.

So far the Republicans have remained loyal to Mr Trump with one or two washed up exceptions. Everyone else has stayed quiet with good reason I suspect.

I think you will find gerrymandering is actually legal as long as it isn’t by race but seriously it still would be but it’s extremely immoral.

Never being able to vote due to a minor felony conviction. Then when that was over turned after a referendum then taken to the Florida courts (who ruled in favour) the governor changing the rules to say you could only vote if you have paid all of your court costs and fines after people had already started to register.
In a country where you have to pay for your own parole officer fees how would you ever get back in your feet earning minimum wage with a criminal conviction?

Stacking the ability for minorities and poor people to vote is voter suppression and corrupt to its core.

Not to mention the Electoral College system as a whole, and the Senate which gives a rural, conservative state like Wyoming with a population of half a million, the same number of Senators as California which has nearly 40 million people

Isn’t the EU like this though? Otherwise a small country like Ireland would never get any say. It’s the same way in the US

@Ihaveyourback

I do think however that if they have been found to be cheating and Biden does not take up post, the civil unrest really would be catastrophic

I am not worried about this, because I think the same could be said if the court hearing does not take place. That is a much bigger risk to unrest.
We would hope the evidence either way will speak for itself.
I am not sure either party would feel comfortable with widespread fraud that undermines the democratic processes if proved, whatever the court ruling.

We will have to see what happens.

I'll ask again - what court ruling in particular are you waiting for? Seeing as various claims have already been rejected 10 (or maybe 11 by now) times and not one upheld? What is your threshold for considering it 'resolved'?

So, I think we are clear here that there are NO substantive chances of any of the elections being overturned
and a single squirrel has derailed the thread entirely.

time for everybody to scroll on by until FACTS appear