To report a friend for fraud?

[ashbashclash]

I've been good friends with a woman for over 15 years now.
She is a carer for her dad who has dementia and has been since her mum died.
She works part time hours (16 hours )
Now she spends a lot more than she earns.
Before lockdown she was going on weekends away,concerts etc
She is always shopping,not expensive things but still shopping.
Her dads dementia is pretty bad so she will be dealing with his finances and he will be oblivious.
She invited me to his birthday tea party in January and he didn't recognise me.
I think she is spending her dads money.
Do I report this?
I don't think it's fair for her to get away with this.
Although if she has been dipping into his money and I report her,what would happen to her dad?
Would he be moved in care facility ?
What do I do for the best?

@SBTLove, that isn't the case at all, I am not sure where you have appropriated that information from but any investigation for anyone potentially perpetrating financial abuse ( I am speaking generically ) would not mean that person's benefits are stopped. Not all benefits are linked to caring roles and not everyone who is a carer is on benefits you know ? I'm a carer and I work full time, no carer's allowance claimed as I'm not entitled.

You are assuming the OP's friend is claiming benefits ?

There are an awful lot of assumptions here.

I think you should leave well alone , if she is a good carer to her Dad then you will serve nothing by doing this except distress him . In any case a care home will relieve him of all his cash anyway .

[quote MyGodImSoYoung]@ashbashclash I feel you have been unfairly jumped on.

As a lawyer dealing with the elderly and vulnerable, I think it is a good thing that you have noticed things are awry.

If you have real concerns, I would suggest contacting the Office of the Public Guardian. If your friend has an LPA for her father, then they can conduct an investigation.

If you know that she does not have an LPA, then you can contact Adult Social Care and raise a concern with them.[/quote]
Agree with this. I see financial abuse of older people on a regular basis. It's the most common form of elder abuse. Not saying it has happened in this case but the OP unfairly jumped on for having suspicions.

@Tink51971 do you mean Direct Payments for Carers ? The Care Act 2014, great piece of legislation that few people seem aware of sadly - put carers and cared for on an equal footing.

And if you report her and she goes to prison are you going to step in and care for her much loved & well-looked after father?

I bet this is exactly the plan so OP can get her nasty, spiteful hands on his money

But over the years reading friendship problems threads has made me realise so many women have utterly shitty friends yet for some reason they won't drop them like a stone, as they deserve.

But I'm hoping in this case the reason OP has posted in such meanminded waspish fashion is that her friend has discovered what she's like, and rightly told her to fuck the hell off.

It sounds like you're jealous of her.

The only evidence the OP has is that in her opinion her friend lives beyond her means.

Thats not proof. Its not like she's doing dads weekly food shop and bunging a 60 inch TV in the trolley and paying with dads card!

He may have given her the inheritance early when he knew he was becoming unwell.
She may have payday loans/credit cards doorstep lenders.
There is zero proof that she is financially abusing him. He has carers, his daughter cares for him well, he's not had his leccy cut off.
OP needs to keep her jealous nose out.

It doesn't even sound like she's spending crazy amounts, lots of people save and go to concerts or weekend breaks. She supposedly shops a lot but not at expensive places. Leave her alone seriously.

@ashbashclash

What would happen if I did report her?

My ex was reported last week by the bank about suspicious withdrawals on his mum's account as he has POA. The police questioned him, he had a paper trail proving it was due to her house move to a small bungalow so no action was taken.

Maybe she should have an allowance for caring for him from his money, carers allowance is around £60 a week and you can only get that if you earn less than £100 a week. If she is only working 16 hours a week because of caring responsibilities she shouldn't have to live in dire poverty.

As a carer and only child to two parents who have dementia, I would be devastated if one of my so-called friends was as callous and as spiteful as you.

@Gingerkittykat see my post further up, it's £128 per week net, Carers Allowance is £67.25, and is taxable. - The issue here is does the daughter have a legitimate framework for managing finances of someone who lacks capacity and may not be able to make decisions around paying his daughter for caring. No one can just decide to pay themselves from someone elses money, it doesn't work like that !

@manxiouscat. Yes direct payments, it does save the local authority quite a bit on residential care.

Maybe he's told her to spend it so they don't have to pay inheritance tax. X

@Tink51871 The amount of direct payments made to a carer are on average £35 per month, that is to meet the needs of the carer, not to keep someone who needs residential care out of a care home. Sadly, when someone's care needs become unmanageable at home, ie requiring nursing care, sometimes that need can only be met in an an appropriate setting. I fought for months to keep my dad at home as that was his wish, but I also recognised that there may come a time when the impact of his needs might become too much for my mum who is palliative herself. Thankfully he passed away at home before we had to make that decision in his best interests.

Maybe her Dad gets PIP and pays her out of that to look after him? If she’s on such a low income job then surely she would get universal credit too.

You literally have no idea, none of your business. You sound like a bad friend.

Wow - sorry but what a bitch of a friend you are! You have no proof of this at all, her dad is ill, she cares for him (even though it is stressful on her) and he is happy, yet you want to cause her grief on something based on no facts at all!

Wow, who needs enemy's when you have friends like yourself

TBH I can understand the OP wondering.

While obviously there is no proof, it’s an undoubted fact that people with dementia are extremely vulnerable to being relieved of their money. It does happen, and often it’s relatives who help themselves, especially if they have power of attorney over finances, which makes it all too easy - and obviously very tempting to anyone in the least unscrupulous, or maybe merely hard up.

Not nice, but it happens.

She works 16 hours and there can probably still claim carers allowance on top.

If she's living at her Dad's she will most likely be rent free and let's face it, will be unlikely to be contributing to bills and arguably why should she when she's given up her life to care for her parents?

That's it. Her wages and her carers allowance without other outgoings would be c£195 per week so £845 a month. That's plenty to cover all you list. That will be disposable income for her.

Don't be such a shit friend!

do not interfere. do not report it anywhere. if you did you would disrupt possible destroy the relationship and caring role she has for her father. how could you be so spiteful.
you said yourself that he is well cared for, and she obviously loves him, arranging a birthday tea when he probably has no notion of his birthday. so why didn't she just spend the cake money on herself then if she is so dodgy. it's nonsense.
have you ever cared for someone with a serious deteriorating condition, someone whom you love dearly. probably not.
you have said his brother is involved and there are careworkers. so she has not got him hidden in a corner, neglected.
i do know of a case of financial abuse, but i can do nothing about, because the client is compos mentis and chooses to believe that it is all done in her best interests.
the OP is the opposite. she cares. she sees that he has everything for his comfort. they love each other.
to get any officials involved even though unwarranted, would be enormously disruptive, psychologically. that would be wicked. let the old man have some peace and the continued devotion and attention of his loving daughter.
i know whereof i speak.

What’s wrong with you?

www.ageuk.org.uk/globalassets/age-uk/documents/factsheets/fs78_safeguarding_older_people_from_abuse_fcs.pdf

A lot of posters here really need to open their eyes.....

There is one thing only you can do for the ultimate best in this situation. Drop her. 'Ghost' her. Cut off every avenue of contact with her, block her mobile phone number and block her on social media. Leave no possible chink in the armour through which she can contact you.

The pain of watching a dearly-loved relative deteriorating from dementia is soul-wrenching, especially when they, who loved you all your life, start accusing you of things like locking them up in a care home so you can get your hands on all their cash. Of course it's not their fault: it's the disease talking, as it renders the person you once knew completely unrecognisable. They have no idea that the person who loves them are incapable of such an act; that's if they even know who they are. It would be very easy to accuse a carer of this: patients with dementia frequently voice this delusion without basis, even when their family's first response is to ensure they are cared for and are often forced to sell their property to ensure they receive proper care - the very antithesis of trying to trouser their estate before they're even dead.

I'd suggest that unless you're privy to the precise information contained in this woman's salary slips and credit card statements, you can have no idea whether she 'spends more than she earns'. That's less an over-reach than a completely fantastical assumption and a very mean-spirited one to boot.

Do not report her. The deterioration of her father to a hideous condition will be devastating enough without the misfortune of having 'friends' like this. Instead, please let her go. You will be doing her a kindness.