Child maintenance

[Orinoco82]

Hi all, this is my first post on here, feels a bit strange as I’m a bloke posting on Mumsnet but there we are!

I’m basically just after some advice and other folks opinion on an issue I’m having with my daughters mum regarding the maintenance that I pay to her monthly.

I’ll try not to go on too much so here goes.

I have a daughter who is 5 years old and lives with her mum. Her mum and I separated before she was born but I have been there since day one and have always paid maintenance on time and every time without fail and I have even given extra money and lent money (which I never got back) on occasion.

I normally pay just under £500 per month maintenance to my ex but when this Coronavirus crap first hit earlier this year and the country went into the first lock down, the company I work for basically cancelled all overtime and call out which would have a substantial impact on my earnings (approx down £1200-1500 per month). As soon as I found out my earnings were going to cut, I thought it only fair that I tell my ex that her maintenance will be reducing which, although not what she wanted, she didn’t give me too hard a hard time over. I normally do a lot of overtime as I have debts that I’m trying desperately to clear and I want to provide for my daughter at the same time. I said I will give what I can and hopefully the overtime will come back and I can start giving the normal amount again. I managed to give £300 as that was all I could manage that month.

After a month or so, some overtime returned and I was able to give a little more so I raised it to £400 per month. I have also bought my daughter clothes, shoes and other bits and bobs as any parent would do.

My company has now again removed all the overtime due to this second lockdown so I thought it right that I should tell my ex straight away that again, my earnings will be going down. This time she absolutely lost the plot and went nuts at me down the phone saying that I don’t provide for my child, make no time for my child, I’m a hopeless father etc.......... none of which is true.

I love my daughter dearly, she is all I have in the world. She lives over an hours drive away from where I live and I always collect her and drop her home and I’m more than happy to do this, my ex has dropped her to me 3 times in 5 years and every time asked me for £50 fuel for doing so (which I refused). I make sure that I have at least 2 weekends off per month so I can have her and spend time with her. If I finish work on a Friday at a reasonable time, I’ll go and pick her up for the weekend. If I’m off during the week, I’ll drive all the way down to where she is to pick her up from school and take her to the park and out for some dinner then get her back home and drive home again. If she has a school play or sports day or whatever, I’ll go there, watch her and then go to work. I honestly do the best I can so I find it very hurtful when I get told that I’m a hopeless father and I don’t provide. I don’t think that’s the case at all. I may be wrong, who knows.

The other thing that has annoyed me hugely is that she borrowed a hefty (to me at least) amount of money from me and when I mentioned this to her the other day (she’s owed to me for over 2 years), she says that because I have been giving less maintenance, then I can basically go and whistle for my money which I think is wrong.

The maintenance that I give her was worked out using the CMS calculator but we haven’t involved the CMS but I have told her that I now want to go down this route as I am sick of being told I’m not giving enough so at least this way, there can be no dispute. She has told me that she doesn’t want me to do this though. Don’t know why as surely it won’t affect her.

She is always telling me how she has no money yet she refuses to look for work, has a partner that works, has another child (who she gets maintenance for also). Surely if you’re that hard up for money, you’d do everything you could to find a part time job?Maybe that’s just me?!

I could understand her being angry with me if I was giving her a pittance and driving around in a lovely car, living in a big house and wearing fancy clothes etc........ but I have none of that. Yes I’m really into my cars but I haven’t had anything nice for quite some time but that is literally my only vice. My current car is worth about £1500 tops.

I’m very sorry, I’ve been rambling (more getting things off my chest I guess). I guess the question I’m asking is, am I really in the wrong to adjust the amount of maintenance I give considering I’m now earning considerably less money? I fully intend to pay the normal amount once my earnings go back up so I’m not looking to get away with not paying it, I’m not that kind of person.

Thanks very much for taking the time to read.

@Nicknamegoeshere

You said you "didn't want or need his money" (for the kids, I'm assuming?)

Yea that's correct. I earn substantially more than he does so his relatively small contribution isn't really something I'd miss if I didn't get it anymore. It was in response to the comment a pp made about there being less conflict if maintenance was withheld until contact was sorted. I was simply making the point that I do not and have never thought in this way - my daughters contact with her Dad has nothing to do with what he does or doesn't pay me. So I was pointing out to that pp that we shouldn't all be tarred with that particular brush. You'd see this if you read my comment in that context.

The internalised misogyny from some on here is shocking.....if the OP was a woman doing eow they wouldn't be getting such an easy ride.

Deadbeat parents and it is by far fathers get away with absolute murder.

Yes but my response is what about those separated parents where there is disparity? If it's 50/50 and one party earns, say £100k pa and the other earns, say, £14k pa, what should happen then?

@Nicknamegoeshere

Yes but my response is what about those separated parents where there is disparity? If it's 50/50 and one party earns, say £100k pa and the other earns, say, £14k pa, what should happen then?

Sorry, but I honestly don't understand what you're asking. Can you be clearer? There was a disparity in my income and my daughter's dad's - I earn about 30k more. So I naturally contribute more to her life financially speaking. This would be the same even if her dad and I had stayed together.

If there’s a disparity and it’s 50/50 then the kids get provided for half and half and the. Lower earning partner has to just accept that.

My ex earns way more than I every will. My kids gain from that as he provides material things for them I can’t.

I have my sanity and my self respect. I work full time in a pressured job and work another job to earn more.

It’s not my ex’s job to provide for me once we are split.

Yes but my response is what about those separated parents where there is disparity? If it's 50/50 and one party earns, say £100k pa and the other earns, say, £14k pa, what should happen then?
Not and exact answer to your question as DH and I are still very much together but I brought quite a large deposit for our family home of about 45%. DH contributed nothing. We married and bought within a few weeks. At my insistence we are 50/50 tenants in common, even though my solicitor obviously advised that I could protect my money by owning in uneven shares.
One of my main reasons for this is that if we split I don’t want DH left with fuck all, I want him to have a suitable home for DS too. Whatever else may happen between us, we are both parents to our sons and that will never change.

Well the situation for my kids is that half if the time they live with their dad who earns well in excess of £100k pa and remains in the former five bed / four bathroom marital home. Half of the time they live with me, currently earning around £14k pa and living in a two/three bed private rented with one downstairs loo.
He refuses to pay for any of their extra-curricular activities or out-of-school residentials. Everything the kids have to have two sets of, of which I pay for one.
He claims CB for one son.

@Dddaddy Are you 50/50 too?

Yes. That is similar to me.

My ex lives in a 5 bed detached house with double garage, games room, hot tub, multiple cars.

I live in a 3 bed council house.

Once you’re divorced/separated then the ex partner has no obligation to support you.

I probably could have fought him for spousal maintenance and taken some of the family business but I didn’t have the mental strength to do that at the time.

I can either live my life torn up with anxiety and hurt over coulda woulda shoulda, or I can say that’s how it is, I’m fine, I have a home and I’m getting on with my life.

I chose the latter because the other would have destroyed me.

@Dddaddy Do you ever regret leaving? I do. How do you find it living without your kids half of the time? I still find it really hard, even seven years on. I mean it's got better because they were only so small when it happened (3 and 6) but it's still hard. He's taking me to court again for EOW in Jan.

Never regret leaving. Not ever. Not even for a second.

I would not be where I am now if I had stayed. My life is good. I have a lovely boyfriend and I’m building a good career.

I’m years out and the kids are all grown (the youngest is 18 she was 3 when we split).

They see me far more than they see him.

I’m content. Not silly happy but content. Life is good.

@Dddaddy Ah fair play to you, that's really good. Did you both agree to 50/50? Mine was court enforced because being an abusive husband doesn't make you a bad dad. Apparently.

He continues to abuse and control me, just goes through the children now.

I have also moved on - got a fiancé and a new baby. But this has caused him to go nuts further.

I still can't help but think if I'd have stayed and been less of a coward - if I'd have sucked up all of the abuse - then at least my kids wouldn't be constantly in the middle. I mean it wasn't physical so really I could possibly have shut up and put up, if only for their sakes?

Agreed between us because I couldn’t face a court battle.

Then rubber stamped in the divorce agreement.

He told me this year that he had rights and I should have informed him I was dating someone and introduced him to my new boyfriend. He’s remarried ....

I can’t comment - I knew I had to leave and I have never regretted it. I’m sorry you feel so conflicted that must be hard.

I hope you get the right result in court.

@Dddaddy Thanks. I'm a bit of a Court expert now sadly - think it will be 8th time he's taken me, something like that. Started with him attempting to contest the divorce, citing our marriage had not irretrievably broken down (despite having changed the locks to the house within hours of me leaving!)

I mean this very kindly.

You need to find a way to park this or it will consume you.

@Dddaddy Easier said that done when your 13 yo is telling you "You're an effing cxxx" due to his dad's brainwashing. It even got to the point where the judge had to award police powers to get my lad home as my ex stopped me from seeing them at all.
My eldest hugged me for the first time in literally months the other day and I cried happy tears for hours.

I wish you peace.

I wonder if the OP is ever going to come back and let us know if any of this was helpful?! 😂

I think he got the validation he needed.

I just worry that with so many women telling him how wonderful he was and that He was paying well over the odds (even though he used cms), he will reduce the payments even more.

Some on mumsnet seem to struggle to understand that men on larger incomes should pay more child support. There was almost a jealousy her - I only get £23 a month so why should this blokes ex get over £400 a month.

I have found this thread To be a real eye opener, and at time depressing reflection on our society

Me too @Ideasplease322

@Ideasplease322

I agree with you - I think it's right that CM varies according to the nrp's income - after all if the parents were still together the child would be benefitting from that higher level of income so only right that they should if parents are separated. In the same way I accept I can only get £112 a month from my ex because he's on a lower income.

I don't know about "wonderful" but I certainly don't think the op deserved the bashing he got from some. I certainly didn't read anything that suggested shitty father. Something tells me he won't be back here in a hurry though poor guy! 🤷‍♀️😂

Me too. It's depressing to think that, rather than bringing up our daughters to fight for equal opportunities and equality, we're bringing them up to believe that a woman's role is to suck it up, endure whatever shit any ex partners choose to throw at them and be grateful for their £30 a month.

@MessAllOver

Me too. It's depressing to think that, rather than bringing up our daughters to fight for equal opportunities and equality, we're bringing them up to believe that a woman's role is to suck it up, endure whatever shit any ex partners choose to throw at them and be grateful for their £30 a month.

Or alternatively, as in my case, bringing my daughter up with a strong work ethic, ambition, and a core belief that as a woman and a mother you can achieve whatever you set you your mind to.

Just another way of reframing it.

@LouJ85. We'll have to agree to disagree but imo you're not doing her any favours to teach her that a woman's role is to endure and make things better for everyone, while men can do comparatively little with impunity.

[quote LouJ85]@Ideasplease322

I agree with you - I think it's right that CM varies according to the nrp's income - after all if the parents were still together the child would be benefitting from that higher level of income so only right that they should if parents are separated. In the same way I accept I can only get £112 a month from my ex because he's on a lower income.

I don't know about "wonderful" but I certainly don't think the op deserved the bashing he got from some. I certainly didn't read anything that suggested shitty father. Something tells me he won't be back here in a hurry though poor guy! 🤷‍♀️😂[/quote]
Absolutely - I have no idea whether he was a good dad or a bad bad - probably somewhere in between.

But he was on a good income - over £50k, and did a lot of whining about his lifestyle, debt and shitty car.

He was very quick to cut child support by a significant proportion the moment his overtime reduced. I wonder did he also refused other outgoings quite so drastically.

And in the equality, of course we should be teaching girls to be independent and successful. But we should also be teaching them to expect more from men. And we should be modelling functional family relationships for girls and boys, where the parents are equals and share the parenting and financial responsibility of children.

Men deserve to have the opportunity to be hands on and present in their children’s lives. Some are absolutely fabulous, some less so. Let’s not celebrate those who pay cms child support, that should be expected of any decent human being as a minimum.