Child maintenance

[Orinoco82]

Hi all, this is my first post on here, feels a bit strange as I’m a bloke posting on Mumsnet but there we are!

I’m basically just after some advice and other folks opinion on an issue I’m having with my daughters mum regarding the maintenance that I pay to her monthly.

I’ll try not to go on too much so here goes.

I have a daughter who is 5 years old and lives with her mum. Her mum and I separated before she was born but I have been there since day one and have always paid maintenance on time and every time without fail and I have even given extra money and lent money (which I never got back) on occasion.

I normally pay just under £500 per month maintenance to my ex but when this Coronavirus crap first hit earlier this year and the country went into the first lock down, the company I work for basically cancelled all overtime and call out which would have a substantial impact on my earnings (approx down £1200-1500 per month). As soon as I found out my earnings were going to cut, I thought it only fair that I tell my ex that her maintenance will be reducing which, although not what she wanted, she didn’t give me too hard a hard time over. I normally do a lot of overtime as I have debts that I’m trying desperately to clear and I want to provide for my daughter at the same time. I said I will give what I can and hopefully the overtime will come back and I can start giving the normal amount again. I managed to give £300 as that was all I could manage that month.

After a month or so, some overtime returned and I was able to give a little more so I raised it to £400 per month. I have also bought my daughter clothes, shoes and other bits and bobs as any parent would do.

My company has now again removed all the overtime due to this second lockdown so I thought it right that I should tell my ex straight away that again, my earnings will be going down. This time she absolutely lost the plot and went nuts at me down the phone saying that I don’t provide for my child, make no time for my child, I’m a hopeless father etc.......... none of which is true.

I love my daughter dearly, she is all I have in the world. She lives over an hours drive away from where I live and I always collect her and drop her home and I’m more than happy to do this, my ex has dropped her to me 3 times in 5 years and every time asked me for £50 fuel for doing so (which I refused). I make sure that I have at least 2 weekends off per month so I can have her and spend time with her. If I finish work on a Friday at a reasonable time, I’ll go and pick her up for the weekend. If I’m off during the week, I’ll drive all the way down to where she is to pick her up from school and take her to the park and out for some dinner then get her back home and drive home again. If she has a school play or sports day or whatever, I’ll go there, watch her and then go to work. I honestly do the best I can so I find it very hurtful when I get told that I’m a hopeless father and I don’t provide. I don’t think that’s the case at all. I may be wrong, who knows.

The other thing that has annoyed me hugely is that she borrowed a hefty (to me at least) amount of money from me and when I mentioned this to her the other day (she’s owed to me for over 2 years), she says that because I have been giving less maintenance, then I can basically go and whistle for my money which I think is wrong.

The maintenance that I give her was worked out using the CMS calculator but we haven’t involved the CMS but I have told her that I now want to go down this route as I am sick of being told I’m not giving enough so at least this way, there can be no dispute. She has told me that she doesn’t want me to do this though. Don’t know why as surely it won’t affect her.

She is always telling me how she has no money yet she refuses to look for work, has a partner that works, has another child (who she gets maintenance for also). Surely if you’re that hard up for money, you’d do everything you could to find a part time job?Maybe that’s just me?!

I could understand her being angry with me if I was giving her a pittance and driving around in a lovely car, living in a big house and wearing fancy clothes etc........ but I have none of that. Yes I’m really into my cars but I haven’t had anything nice for quite some time but that is literally my only vice. My current car is worth about £1500 tops.

I’m very sorry, I’ve been rambling (more getting things off my chest I guess). I guess the question I’m asking is, am I really in the wrong to adjust the amount of maintenance I give considering I’m now earning considerably less money? I fully intend to pay the normal amount once my earnings go back up so I’m not looking to get away with not paying it, I’m not that kind of person.

Thanks very much for taking the time to read.

@Waxonwaxoff0. I know that. And the reason, of course, that maintenance isn't taken into account in benefits/UC calculations is because so few fathers pay a decent amount regularly that their children would be destitute. £30 a month won't put food on the table.

What I meant was more that there seem to be many children with high earning fathers with a great lifestyle who are, literally, reliant on benefits for the food that they eat and the clothes that they wear.

There are two schools of thought as to why this is, I think - 1) their lazy feckless mums need to get their arses out of bed and get a job; 2) too many fathers fail to pay a fair amount of maintenance and childcare is too expensive, especially for more than one child, to allow mum to get a job that pays well (especially after she may have been disadvantaged career-wise by staying at home with the kids or cutting her hours during the relationship).

Take your pick.

I do think it’s interesting how only one parent is expected to have savings to cover a sudden drop on income. Without knowing the full financial picture for either parent.

Indeed @MessAllOver.

Also that of course the fathers are entitled to their prestigious, secure, well paid career with big pension, lots of overtime etc that was facilitated by their ex . Who took maternity leave, going part time and did most of his share of child rearing, housework and wifework for years (all the child’s life in the case of the OP).

But The mother should be happy with her minimum wage job working shifts and spending everything on childcare, otherwise she is a lazy scrounger.

That women, especially single mums, should sacrifice EVERYTHING for their kids . But dads are heroes if they give up a few beers / night out and take their kids 4 nights out of 31.

Some women are so desperate to have a man at all costs , their standards are so low. “ My ex gives me 25p a month, I’d worship at your feet for £10, you are so amazing, your ex is a total bitch for not appreciating your wonderful ness “ .

I am happy working my minumum wage job, it allows me to spend more time with DS. I wouldn't want to do my ex's job despite it paying well, the hours are too long.

Men 100% need to step up and pay the maintenance that they should. But I don't think that my ex should facilitate my career now that we're divorced. His responsibility is to DS, not me.

Your ex should count herself lucky! I get a crappy 35 quid a month for my 2 dds and hes the shittest father going
Hates having them, doesn't interact and is borderline abusive with them to. I have to ask him to have them
You sound great to be fair. I'd go down to CMS route now

If you want something badly enough it can be done. It's hard work and it's sacrifice- but with a work ethic and determination, it's very doable. I'm living proof
I agree, I did too.

I have read a number of threads from mother pulling the 'I couldn't earn what my ex does because I was a rp and was limited as such', then you read further posts from them and read that they have few if not no qualifications and limited work experience before becoming a mum, but somehow it's them being rp rather than their lack of prospects that is the cause.

Who took maternity leave, going part time and did most of his share of child rearing, housework and wifework for years (all the child’s life in the case of the OP)
You know there are many children raised by two ft working parents who turn out very well balanced adults.

No one forced you to be a sahm. You made that choice because it suited you (and possibly your oh but still you too) at the time. You are now making it out that you should be compensayed for that choice because it doesn't suit any longer.

You can't have it both ways.

@WithoutATtrace

You sprout the same crap as every bloke over having to pay maintenance, it's so predictable. If she gets a job, you will then also have to pay for 50% of the Childcare, or look after your DD on top.

Your debts are your own and nothing to do with your ex.

Go through the CSA, but do not come on here being a Disney Dad because that's exactly what you are.

That's ott

Why is it always assumed that the man does not spend more than the minimum CMS given to the RP? He probably spends more money on the children when in his care.

If the RP does not want 50/50 split why should the NRP then help with additional childcare costs? How would he know that money was spent on childcare? I bet most mums get help from the government

@dontdisturbmenow

Who took maternity leave, going part time and did most of his share of child rearing, housework and wifework for years (all the child’s life in the case of the OP) You know there are many children raised by two ft working parents who turn out very well balanced adults.

No one forced you to be a sahm. You made that choice because it suited you (and possibly your oh but still you too) at the time. You are now making it out that you should be compensayed for that choice because it doesn't suit any longer.

You can't have it both ways.

I’m not a SAHM. But lots of couples choose that lifestyle so they need to accept it has long term implications for BOTH OF THEM.

The person who benefits from this will also have to pay. That’s only fair. There’s no such thing as a free lunch.

One sacrifices more money and the other sacrifices their time / social life / career options / promotion prospects / pension.

I have read a number of threads from mother pulling the 'I couldn't earn what my ex does because I was a rp and was limited as such', then you read further posts from them and read that they have few if not no qualifications and limited work experience before becoming a mum, but somehow it's them being rp rather than their lack of prospects that is the cause

Surely you understand that if someone has had children fairly early in life, cared for them whilst supporting a partner developing a career and then find themselves alone at 40 with little work experience, that is going to be difficult to overcome?

So many single parents who manage to hold down a career are utterly unpleasant to those who find it difficult. I did it (and continue to do it) but there are key things that make it work - I had a car and therefore wasn't trying to get three children into different childcare settings/school and myself to work by 9am using the local bus service, I was mortgage free so the high cost of childcare wasn't as much an issue as it could have been, I had all my children in a school with wraparound care so could drop at 7:30am and pick up at 6pm, my mum was willing and able to help me out when my children were sick enabling me to be a reliable employee.....In other words, my circumstances were part of what made it easier for me to successfully work. No everyone has what I have.

Absolutely you can 'have it both ways' when something as fundamental and seismic as a family breakdown occurs. In a seemingly secure marriage it makes a lot of sense for one parent to work less or not at all if it allows the other to climb the ladder and provide a good salary. No issues with school holidays, sickness, inset days etc. However, once a split occurs, so often when the high performing man decides family life is less exciting than the young office junior, an entirely different set of circumstances prevail and actually I DO think the high earner in that scenario owes it to the ex, as the mother of his children to facilitate her earning by contributing to childcare on top of cms, especially in an EOW only contact arrangement, as otherwise she is likewise still failitating HIS career after they split so it should be quid pro quo and he should support hers.. Or, go genuinely 50/50 and pay for the childcare needed during his working days.

I’m not a SAHM. But lots of couples choose that lifestyle so they need to accept it has long term implications for BOTH OF THEM
Yes when together, not beyond. You make that decision on the basis you are going to be a couple forever, which is why it is stupid of women to accept thinking there is no risk to them.

Then again, how many mother's who do want to ensure they are safe financially and therefore continue to work FT give that up against their full wishes just because their partner force them to?

They do it because it goes with what they want to do but then push it all on their ex when it doesn't work.fir them any longer.

We are all in control of our own future. A relationship, marriage and chidren never take this away.

Go through CMS
Here the child maintenance payments dropped over covid because of laid off work and government subsidies.
I was repaid this amount over the following months as we returned to normal.
This is through the tax department.

It was not a problem as we didn't have as many expenses.

She is ungrateful. You paid the majority.
Switch to CMS and do not respond to claims of extras or loans from her!
If like here any adjustments to your income affects and lessens or increases your percentage.
Your money issues because of covid are probaby worldwide I would imagine.
Loved my back payment.
Money issues are a touchy subject for many. Maybe given these times as I become to realise No income is stable!
If a dad helps out with extras then that is worthy of a decent reply! Meow.

Sorry op everyone attacks the dads that post on here!

I think it’s fair enough that she should get less temporarily while your work is cut down. Each time use the Calculator and show her ect. So it reflects what you’ve earned that month. When you’re offered more work you’ll be able to pay more.

So many single parents who manage to hold down a career are utterly unpleasant to those who find it difficult

YY I suspect so many who say this are not in fact single mothers with amazing well paid careers. Because if they were they would be so aware of the barriers.

I suspect they are SAHP in unhappy marriages who resent other women who have had the courage to leave. Or second wives / GF who don’t think that their partner should support his kids - that the tax payer should do it for him.

They are talking about what they would like his ex wife to do, rather than what they actually do. “Of course I work 100 hours a week In two jobs rather than take money off my big earning ex, I’m just so grateful that he sees the kids twice a month, he’s a wonderful father “.

It’s all fantasy and it’s all about his money - how they want more and want his kids to have less.

Ironically it’s never the second wives / GF in well paid jobs themselves who say this. They are usually very supportive of their partners financial commitments. And they also have the intelligence to see the challenges for other women .

@dontdisturbmenow

If you want something badly enough it can be done. It's hard work and it's sacrifice- but with a work ethic and determination, it's very doable. I'm living proof I agree, I did too.

I have read a number of threads from mother pulling the 'I couldn't earn what my ex does because I was a rp and was limited as such', then you read further posts from them and read that they have few if not no qualifications and limited work experience before becoming a mum, but somehow it's them being rp rather than their lack of prospects that is the cause.

Finally some common sense on this thread. Good for you.

We are all in control of our own future. A relationship, marriage and chidren never take this away.
My point exactly.

Why is it only maintenance that is seen as optional and variable though? Admittedly in this Covid crisis there have been measures such as extended mortgage holidays etc but generally, if your income drops you can't ring up the bank / power company etc and say they'll just have to accept less, can't get blood from a stone etc. You have to pay or lose the service, house, whatever. I am NOT advocating losing contact at all, but the fact is, the child still exists, still has the same if not increasing needs as it gets older and any drop on the nrps contribution ultimately has o be picked up by the RP, or guess who gets to tell the child they have to stop their sport or activity, or can't have whatever it is. Guess who gets blamed, if, as certainly I do, the RP chooses not to badmouth the nrp to the kids. In the OPs case, he's not on the bones of his arse he's not lost his job, and should make every possible saving elsewhere to keep his payments level at the very least.. Sell one of his cars that he admits he likes. £1500 is 3 full months or probably close to a years worth of top up from what his reduced payment is to the original amount.

In the OPs case, he's not on the bones of his arse he's not lost his job, and should make every possible saving elsewhere to keep his payments level at the very least.. Sell one of his cars that he admits he likes. £1500 is 3 full months or probably close to a years worth of top up from what his reduced payment is to the original amount.

I don't know where you're seeing that he has more than one car? He clearly states "my current car is worth £1500". He has one car. And he uses it regularly to drive the 2 hour round trip to see his daughter. You're now suggesting he sells his only means of getting to and from his daughter? Hang on. What sort of dad would that make him??! 🤷‍♀️ case in point, he can't win...

Go to the CMS then there can be no arguments. But I agree with those who say you are coming across as a Disney dad 🙄

Stop whining - you obviously are reasonably well off and your ex is doing the lions share of the childcare. If you came on here looking for mansplaining support it's not the right forum.

I strongly suspect that your ex's story would be quite different. Always 2 sides.

So many people here are struggling with the idea that fathers have equal responsibility with mothers to ensure their children's wellbeing.

What if neither parent wanted day-to-day care but both were willing to give £500 a month and have the children for 4 nights a month and the odd afternoon? They'd both be great parents, right?

Thanks @Graphista. It's been incredibly hard and there are days in all honesty I regret leaving (not sure which was worse - the abuse with him or the abuse subsequently) but what's done is done. I'll keep fighting 😊 x

@MessAllOver exactly my point 👏👏👏👏

YY I suspect so many who say this are not in fact single mothers with amazing well paid careers. Because if they were they would be so aware of the barriers
Barriers do get climbed over. So sad that some seemed to have convinced themselves they can't work ft in a relatively well paid job whilst being a good parent. Of course it is tough but I opted for a tough life for 10 years or so for many more years of financial comfort and independence so that my life now is much less tough than for many single parent.