Child maintenance

[Orinoco82]

Hi all, this is my first post on here, feels a bit strange as I’m a bloke posting on Mumsnet but there we are!

I’m basically just after some advice and other folks opinion on an issue I’m having with my daughters mum regarding the maintenance that I pay to her monthly.

I’ll try not to go on too much so here goes.

I have a daughter who is 5 years old and lives with her mum. Her mum and I separated before she was born but I have been there since day one and have always paid maintenance on time and every time without fail and I have even given extra money and lent money (which I never got back) on occasion.

I normally pay just under £500 per month maintenance to my ex but when this Coronavirus crap first hit earlier this year and the country went into the first lock down, the company I work for basically cancelled all overtime and call out which would have a substantial impact on my earnings (approx down £1200-1500 per month). As soon as I found out my earnings were going to cut, I thought it only fair that I tell my ex that her maintenance will be reducing which, although not what she wanted, she didn’t give me too hard a hard time over. I normally do a lot of overtime as I have debts that I’m trying desperately to clear and I want to provide for my daughter at the same time. I said I will give what I can and hopefully the overtime will come back and I can start giving the normal amount again. I managed to give £300 as that was all I could manage that month.

After a month or so, some overtime returned and I was able to give a little more so I raised it to £400 per month. I have also bought my daughter clothes, shoes and other bits and bobs as any parent would do.

My company has now again removed all the overtime due to this second lockdown so I thought it right that I should tell my ex straight away that again, my earnings will be going down. This time she absolutely lost the plot and went nuts at me down the phone saying that I don’t provide for my child, make no time for my child, I’m a hopeless father etc.......... none of which is true.

I love my daughter dearly, she is all I have in the world. She lives over an hours drive away from where I live and I always collect her and drop her home and I’m more than happy to do this, my ex has dropped her to me 3 times in 5 years and every time asked me for £50 fuel for doing so (which I refused). I make sure that I have at least 2 weekends off per month so I can have her and spend time with her. If I finish work on a Friday at a reasonable time, I’ll go and pick her up for the weekend. If I’m off during the week, I’ll drive all the way down to where she is to pick her up from school and take her to the park and out for some dinner then get her back home and drive home again. If she has a school play or sports day or whatever, I’ll go there, watch her and then go to work. I honestly do the best I can so I find it very hurtful when I get told that I’m a hopeless father and I don’t provide. I don’t think that’s the case at all. I may be wrong, who knows.

The other thing that has annoyed me hugely is that she borrowed a hefty (to me at least) amount of money from me and when I mentioned this to her the other day (she’s owed to me for over 2 years), she says that because I have been giving less maintenance, then I can basically go and whistle for my money which I think is wrong.

The maintenance that I give her was worked out using the CMS calculator but we haven’t involved the CMS but I have told her that I now want to go down this route as I am sick of being told I’m not giving enough so at least this way, there can be no dispute. She has told me that she doesn’t want me to do this though. Don’t know why as surely it won’t affect her.

She is always telling me how she has no money yet she refuses to look for work, has a partner that works, has another child (who she gets maintenance for also). Surely if you’re that hard up for money, you’d do everything you could to find a part time job?Maybe that’s just me?!

I could understand her being angry with me if I was giving her a pittance and driving around in a lovely car, living in a big house and wearing fancy clothes etc........ but I have none of that. Yes I’m really into my cars but I haven’t had anything nice for quite some time but that is literally my only vice. My current car is worth about £1500 tops.

I’m very sorry, I’ve been rambling (more getting things off my chest I guess). I guess the question I’m asking is, am I really in the wrong to adjust the amount of maintenance I give considering I’m now earning considerably less money? I fully intend to pay the normal amount once my earnings go back up so I’m not looking to get away with not paying it, I’m not that kind of person.

Thanks very much for taking the time to read.

Would you call a mum who spends £500 a month on her child, occassionally does the school pick up and sees the child every other weekend a brilliant mum?

I am sorry your ex is such a an awful human being, but we Really need to stop holding up men who parent as heros. He is a father, we have no idea of he is a brilliant father.

Carrying out the basics of parenting doesn’t make you brilliant. He may well be, but how do we know.

I know I am a broken record but the sexism on this thread, And the low bar set for men is appalling.

Absolutely this. Paying for your child - automatic. Contributing time and energy - automatic. Driving to spend time with them - automatic. Things any human should be doing without the fanfare of "brilliant Dad".

Not knocking OP but as a parent I don't think we set the bar high enough for Dads at all.

no idea of the answer, I admire your attitude

@Nsky

no idea of the answer, I admire your attitude

And so it continues. Gold medal for the Ann who pays child support and sees his child.

I give up😂

The man not the Ann.

If this was a woman she would be slatted😂

@Ideasplease322 To me he is. And yes I think single parents deserve a pat on the back as being a parent can sometimes be bloody hard work. I was one of them and have known many over the years.

Maintenance is for clothes and uniform. £500 a month is more than adequate for a 5 year old. You sound like a thoroughly decent dad who deserves a break. My DHs ex has 3 kids with 3 dads and is now with another man - she's on a lovely whack of child maintenance. She doesn't work though...because she doesn't need to

Maintenance is for clothes and uniform

Says who? Maintenence is for anything the child needs. That's not just clothes and uniform

[quote nicky7654]@Ideasplease322 To me he is. And yes I think single parents deserve a pat on the back as being a parent can sometimes be bloody hard work. I was one of them and have known many over the years.[/quote]
I am honestly sorry you have had such a bad experience- and I can imagine being a single parent is tough.

But I have seen brilliant dads - both resident and non-resident and there is much more to it that paying child support and seeing the child every other week.

My concern if we hold be bar this low - then children are learning that if men do the bare minimum they get a round of applause. Some people expect so little of men.

It is sexist and depressing.

I grew up with a feminist dad. I knew men should do equal chores around the house - I knew men and women should support each other’s career and I knew dads were just as important as mums.

Celebrating men for doing things that we expect women to do as a bare minimum is damaging to the next generation.

@TheFormerPorpentinaScamander in reference buying her additional clothing on top of the maintenance. Calm down flower

Go to the cms she sounds like a dick. I get £23 a month through the cms your bloody amazing to give her £500, she has no reason to work getting that 😂😂. Are you sure that's the right amount? Bet you find you will be paying far less through CMS.

[quote KeepOnKeepingOnKeepingOn]@TheFormerPorpentinaScamander in reference buying her additional clothing on top of the maintenance. Calm down flower[/quote]
Sorry. Its been a long sleepless few days

@CoronaOneSoz

Go to the cms she sounds like a dick. I get £23 a month through the cms your bloody amazing to give her £500, she has no reason to work getting that 😂😂. Are you sure that's the right amount? Bet you find you will be paying far less through CMS.

Op said he used the cams calculator to get the £500.

Lots of people earn higher salaries. oP was earning up to £1500 on overtime a month on top of his salary, so could afford the £500. He doesn’t need to be worshiped for paying child support commensurate with his earnings.

£23 a month is shockingly, insultingly low.

@CoronaOneSoz

Go to the cms she sounds like a dick. I get £23 a month through the cms your bloody amazing to give her £500, she has no reason to work getting that 😂😂. Are you sure that's the right amount? Bet you find you will be paying far less through CMS.

The CMS is the absolute bare minimum, though, isn't it? You'd hope that anyone who chose to have a child would also choose to contribute a sufficient amount to their child's upkeep and those who don't are arseholes. Those who do aren't magical beings worthy of admiration; if we raise our bar a little higher we'd all benefit because the next generation of men would know that they have to put the time, effort and energy into being great Dads, that they can't simply chuck some CMS money at their child's Mother and be praised like the Holy Father himself for doing so.

I think the 50/50 = no payment due on either side needs reviewing somehow. Not sure how to make it fairer, I don't have all of the answers, but here's my situation...
Left an abusive ex-husband. He'd changed the locks to the large marital home within hours of me leaving. He'd taken my cards out of my purse. Frozen joint accounts. I had a total of 89p to my name. Two kids who were 3 and 6.
We stayed with my parents for six weeks. I managed to increase my working hours so I could just about afford to privately rent. Damp and mouldy two-bed, but at least it was a roof. A church charity donated us clothes, furniture and toys for the children. I couldn't afford to buy a bunk bed for the kids at first and their room was too small for two singles so we all slept together in the same bed. No money for a washing machine so my mum helped to get our clothes clean.
In the weeks I didn't have the kids I turned down the heating and barely ate. Got loads of comments on my weight loss lol!
Throughout all of this hardship my ex was / is continuing to earn in excess of £100k pa.
I'm just about - by the skin of my teeth - getting by when I receive a letter from the CB people. Ex is taking CB off me for one child (even though he'll have to pay it back as he earns way over the threshold).
Seven years on we are still in privately rented. If we need a wee at the same time we have to hold it in as only one loo!
He remains in the former marital home with four bathrooms, a hot tub and four sports cars on the drive.
Before you ask, yes I got a settlement upon divorce. But he is self-employed and hid assets and temporarily gave his shares to family members so that it was not enough for me to buy a suitable property.
He is now applying for futher custody so I would have the kids just EOW. Using his wealth and comfortable standard of living as an argument as to why he is better placed to have the childen the majority of the time.
I pay far more out for the kids than he does. He has me over a barrel really because if I say no it's the kids that lose out. Say if they want to go a school residential then it's me thst has to pay. I pay for any extra-curricular activities too; the list goes on. I work ft and my income is around £13-£14k pa.
Who does that sound fair to?!

Maintenance is for clothes and uniform.

Where you getting that nonsense?

It's for ALL the costs associated with raising a child!

in reference buying her additional clothing on top of the maintenance.

That's an odd explanation! Doesn't make sense

@Nicknamegoeshere I've probably said to you before as I recognise username but I'm so sorry for all you and your family are going through.

There's so so much that needs fixed re divorce and cm etc

I assume I’m joining a chorus of many posters to say I would have to be unable to pay my mortgage to consider only paying cms amount. It’s bare minimum. And people who think it’s ok to pay that aren’t really thinking of bringing their child up. Fine, go through the cms. But savings are for drawing on to cover expenses when short and contributing a portion of your child’s costs should be one of those expenses you prioritise, cut back on beer and pubs, take out, clothes, watch the heating settings, buy some own brand food, then consider if you can’t cover a decent level of child support. And if you have savings that’s when you draw on those.
We were pretty broke at the start of the year. Minimum grocery shops, watching the heater setting and turning it on a minimal amount, no coffees out, I bought nothing for myself, but my dc needed shoes so bought them shoes.

Most posters seem to think that OP is a hero because he is paying child support and sees his child.

People comparing him to their useless exes and basically saying he is amazing because he pays the cms amount .

oP is a high earner and I think that is the issue. The cms amount is more than some people believe his ex and child deserve. We just had a comment praise him because it’s more than £23.

Strange double standard here, implication is higher earners should pay a lower proportion of their salary because the resident parent shouldn’t have more than the minimum necessary to raise a child.

500 sounds like quite a lot but without hearing both sides I'd be reluctant to comment.
I think it's fair enough to go through an official channel if your ex is being verbally abusive to you.

I don't think the OP is a hero but equally I don't think the ex is a poor suffering mother who can't possibly get a job and can't manage on £500pm maintenance. As someone who receives the same maintenance as the ex and manages to work I find the insinuation that she's hard done by insulting.

But wax every situation is different. Your skills, area of employment might be entirely different from hers. Lots of posts on here about no being able to get a job.. Including being over qualified for just 'any job'. And as I said upthread, if she works, she incurs childcare costs. He does not. Not all of those costs in all cases are defrayed by tax credits or UC. Unless he is prepared to participate in covering those costs, above and beyond CMS, in my view he has zero right complain about her not working whilst the kids are below school age.

And even then, he should pay half the wraparound care if he never has the kids on school days.

I don't think he has any right to complain about her not working. But the way people act as if it's not possible for her to get a job is ridiculous. I don't know any single parents that don't work, all with a variety of circumstances. And I don't agree that he should pay half the childcare costs if he's already paying £500pm, I don't ask my ex to pay childcare costs. £500 is plenty already.

My ex and I have maintenance calculated by the CMS, but he pays me directly. You pay a one-off fee (£20 I think) for that, then it's reviewed annually.

My partner pays about 50 quid a week. He has NEVER paid for anything else (won't contribute to school trips or buy school shoes etc) as he says he gives me enough and doesn't want to pay my bills. Going through the CMS definitely stops any disagreeing about how much you should be paying.

Yes, clearly it is possible for single parents to work. It's just they don't have a level playing field. CM does not cover childcare costs. And yes, the single parent might get UC/benefits if their earnings are low enough, but really why should the taxpayer be funding the children of high earners rather than the non resident parent paying a decent amount? It's not right that the child of a parent earning £80k plus should be reliant on benefits to survive.

@MessAllOver it makes no difference what amount the NRP pays when it comes to benefits though as maintenance isn't means tested. Even if the RP was receiving £3k per month in maintenance, they would still get help with UC if on a low income themselves. That person wouldn't be "reliant" on benefits as they probably wouldn't need them, but they'd still get them.