To be sick of miserable people shouting at (my) children?

[Yellowballoon77]

I am a SAHM so I see this a lot more than DH does. Especially since - in order to keep sane - we’re generally out and about every chance we get.

I think this is a lockdown / Covid thing, but I am SICK of people mindlessly telling off my kids for pretty much no reason. I’m all for “the village” mentality, but the “village” feeling quite mean-spirited and I've had enough.

Things that happened this last few weeks:
3-year-old ran from one bit of the paved park to another, across the path of an older couple walking. 3-yr-old didn’t bump into anyone, didn’t make anyone have to swerve or even slow down really, and was probably still about 2m away from them, but the lady (maybe in her 70s) shouted “get your child away from me!” And then, when I responded with a gaping mouth, she said, “Put your child in school! They shouldn’t be out like this!”

Another instance:
Park today, preschooler and school-aged child doing cartwheels on the grass. A dog wanders over, so school-aged child (who absolutely loves dogs) asks the owner if he can stroke the dog. Owner says “No, don’t touch other people’s pets!” (A Covid fear, I know, but the kid asked!) and then dragged his dog away by the collar and muttered “fucking kids” under his breath. I mean... whaaaat?! The dog wasn’t touched! I was . Man wouldn’t look at me at all, I told him to stop being so rude to kids. He heard me, but didn’t look me in the face.

Another example: kids playing loudly (how dare they?!) in our big shared garden. Woman who I don’t know sticks her head out the window and shouts “shut up! Shut up!” And then slams the window. It was about 1pm.

I have about three other examples of the same kind of thing.

And pretty much NONE from about a year ago and beyond so sure it’s a Covid fear and kids are easy targets to yell at.

I’m sick of it. It’s really starting to bother me and make me wonder if it’s like this everywhere now, or just where I live.

Am I alone in noticing it?!

I don't believe you're a medical profession, either.

It’s not the slightest bit realistic to teach very young children to observe social distancing and many societies have acknowledged that in their guidelines. Also, other people’s ‘Covid fears’ are not necessarily valid and command respect. There is pretty much nothing to fear, Covid-wise, from a passing encounter with a small child in the open air, assuming small child doesn’t spit in your face or similar

I think we have to remember covid has already taken the lives of over 50 thousand in the U.K. alone.
Why you think we shouldn’t respect people’s ‘covid fears’ or consider their fears not valid? Lots of people have suppressed immune systems or respiratory illness or fall into a high risk group due to their age. A young child running in front or overtaking on a narrow path might collide with them, cough on them, touch them. I agree some fears are excessive but it doesn’t make the fear less ‘real’ to the person suffering covid anxiety.

I agree it’s not easy to teach very young kids social distancing. But parents have a responsibility to supervise them closely around other people or hold their hands. Parents manage to keep their infants safe near busy roads, in car-parks, in supermarkets or places they might get lost or hurt. Why should keeping them (and others) safe in the park be any different?

We have reins, buggies, backpacks with a clip on lead that we can use in crowded areas of the park. And enclosed play/parks where they can run, climb and be boisterous to their hearts content. Children over the age of 4 are generally good at following rules eg they only run if there’s lots of space and if you spot someone coming towards you, parent calls them back.

Even pre covid I’ve witnessed people getting annoyed when kids run into them, scoot into them or cut them up. Mostly on beach promenades or rose gardens or paved areas of the park where people often want to enjoy a peaceful stroll.

Schools and preschools are strict about social distancing and hand washing, children know they must stay in their own bubble (class) and not go into areas reserved for other classes.

They were rhetorical questions you posed not meant to be answered, but to paint me as some kind onf unscientific luddite philistine, who knows nothing about the virus

I was not trying to paint you as anything. I asked the questions because I was genuinely curious about your beliefs, based on your rather rude responses to my posts. They were not rhetorical questions. I was trying to understand your worldview and why you were being so verbally aggressive to me.

In your previous post you complained my questions ‘implied’ certain things about you, yet you had already openly accused me of being most of them myself eg neurotic! (I think you’re far from neurotic if you truly want to know).

Which of your points have I not responded to or not answered?

You can believe what you choose to believe, of course. But it’s interesting how you openly accuse me of lying about my job, without any evidence or reason to suggest I would make that up

And of course I know about cross infection, though what the fuck that has to do with asking to pat someone's dog, I truly have no idea.

As I explained previously, covid can live on hard and soft surfaces for a significant time. So imagine your child unknowingly touched an infected surface then stroked a dog, he’s transferring covid particles to the dog’s fur. Which the owner may breathe in when she cuddles or brushes the dog. Or a child with covid could have wiped his nose then patted the dog, transferring particles to the fur (or if he coughs or sneezes potentially airborne particles to the owner who is likely to be within 2m of dog.

Hope that answers your question.

Asking to pat a dog is not going to transmit the virus. You are offended by the act of asking.

Asking is impertinent?

Many people may disagree, but I think it’s good manners to wait for a stranger to offer rather than encourage a child to directly approach strangers asking to pet their dog. Especially if child will be upset if they say no or respond grumpily.

People might be in a rush, training their dog, enjoying alone time or don’t want to keep stopping their walk (walking a lab puppy takes hours due the volume of kids wanting to pet the ‘Andrex Puppy!’) Or the dog might not be kid-friendly and they get tired of saying no every time and seeing the disappointment on kids faces.

If your son loves dogs so much why not get your own? Or tell child to ask to stroke the dogs of people you know eg neighbours, other mums, parents with dogs at school gate, someone you strike up conversation with etc. Lots of our neighbours encourage our DC to pet their dogs.

I live next to a school and when I’m out with my dogs the children often ask to pet them and we get into conversations. I don’t have children but I really enjoy it. Social distancing hadn’t even occurred to me, I’m happy to see children out and about and having the oomph to strike up conversations.

Asking to pat a dog is not going to transmit the virus. You are offended by the act of asking

So I explain as you requested and you disagree immediately anyway? I can’t be bothered to waste more time explaining things to you.

The act of asking doesn’t ‘offend’ me as I’ve explained above. It’s more an issues of good manners IMO.

If your son loves dogs so much why not get your own? Or tell child to ask to stroke the dogs of people you know eg neighbours, other mums, parents with dogs at school gate, someone you strike up conversation with etc. Lots of our neighbours encourage our DC to pet their dogs.

Oh sod this, I am not required to justify myself to you. I don't know why I've even bothered. You don't read my responses, you don't respond to points I have made, and you have absolutely no comprehension of anything to do with my life.
You have yet to even acknowledge that I repeatedly answered your questions, or did I perhaps not use the exactly correct words you required?
Dogs? At the school gate? Not here there aren't, not that I go to the door. It is not encouraged here, and he is too old, anyway. There are often heavily armed soldiers, though, so there's that.

These are our neighbours dogs. They're in our quartier, people we see regularly. But you didn't know that, because you didn't ask and it doesn't fit your narrative.

As I explained previously, covid can live on hard and soft surfaces for a significant time.

Hard surfaces yes, soft much less so.

But although it can live, scientists have now concluded that it is not stable enough to survive a transfer from surface to hand to face with any regularity. Fomite transmission is now not believed to be a significant risk. On a soft surface, it was never really believed to be.

You’re assertion upthread that an asymptomatic toddler was ‘very likely’ to transmit Covid via dog petting is rubbish. This is not risky behaviour in the slightest.

You have yet to even acknowledge that I repeatedly answered your questions, or did I perhaps not use the exactly correct words you required?

You called all my questions ‘straw men’ and tried to turn them into further arguments! 😂Then you accused me of making a ‘stupid’ comparison so you didn’t answer that one either. But yes, you did share some interesting views in response to the questions, like accusing me of trying to portray you as neurotic.

I hope you’re coping with lockdown ok.

I think they're just very aware of social distancing just now and kids just run all over the place. Not just yours. If you're noticing people around, tell them to stay away from people. When I'm out with my dogs kids touch them. I don't mind but I know some outlets say to street clear of posts so maybe they're just being careful.

But although it can live, scientists have now concluded that it is not stable enough to survive a transfer from surface to hand to face with any regularity. Fomite transmission is now not believed to be a significant risk. On a soft surface, it was never really believed to be

I appreciate your knowledge, and agree the risk of cross-contamination from dog fur is lower than I thought. However these experiments are carried out in highly controlled lab conditions aren’t they? So the true risk is still unknown.

I work in a hospital, any patient with covid (or awaiting covid test results) is isolated and barrier nursed. Their bedding, nightgowns, even soft furnishings like the curtains have to go into biohazard bags. So if the risk of transmission from soft surfaces is impossible, why such drastic precautions?

Government websites are still saying dogs count as part of a household and you shouldn’t allow anyone not in your household to touch your dogs. Whether that’s because the owner could have covid or a stranger could transmit covid by petting the dog I’m not sure. At work we’re not allowed to have our therapy PAT dogs as they’re considered too high risk.

We also have to change into scrubs on site and take them off when we exit patient areas, so there’s obviously some concern from the Dept of Health that the virus can live on fabric and cross-infect.
Infection Control also removed all cushions and blankets from the patient lounge, and my child’s nursery got rid of all the rugs, cushions and blankets.

There’s a lot of health anxiety on this thread. It’s really sad.

There’s a lot of health anxiety on this thread. It’s really sad

I agree. But I think it’s to be expected in the second wave of a pandemic, deaths from covid exceeding 50,000 (and plastered all over the news). People in high risk groups are bound to be anxious. If we can do a few small things, like keeping our kids away from strangers, it will reduce that anxiety and panic a bit and there’ll be less incidents like the ones OP described.

There’s a lot of health anxiety on this thread. It’s really sad
It is, but some of it is understandable and to be honest it's not that much to expect people to keep their distance from each other when out and about.

OP sitiuation aside, the way some people are reacting is like expecting parents to watch their kids and try to stop them running into people is destroying children's childhood. I'm sure they'd have no issue preventing their child running into a road, but when it comes to preventing their child running into other people it's apparently impossible.

YANBU at all, I’m sorry you’ve had to cope with such rude people. Even if your DC were being too loud, the appropriate response is to open the window and ask ‘Would you mind keeping the noise level down, kids? I’m working in here.’ Shouting ‘Shut up!’ is very rude and unnecessary.

Nowt so queer as folk I'm afraid as this thread proves.

In the park with my toddler recently I've had compliments about how cute she is, how well behaved she is walking holding my hand and how good she is at splashing in puddles. From people of all ages. Many people you pass give you a smile and say hello. Nearly all are respectful and give the right amount of distance.

I try not to give anyone who is irrationally rude space in my head. They're the minority - it may not always seem like it but the majority of people are decent.

OP sitiuation aside, the way some people are reacting is like expecting parents to watch their kids and try to stop them running into people is destroying children's childhood. I'm sure they'd have no issue preventing their child running into a road, but when it comes to preventing their child running into other people it's apparently impossible

This I completely agree with.
Parents manage to keep toddlers and preschoolers safely away from roads, moving cars in carparks etc so why is it impossible to keep them away from people?

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss in Scotland under 12s are exempt from social distancing