AIBU or is DH being unreasonable regarding career change

[Logiclady94]

Hi, I’m prepared to be told I am being unreasonable but I was only making a suggestion. DH and I had a massive argument this morning with regards to me suggesting a career change for him. He is a web developer/designer and has been doing it since we got together 4 years ago, when we met he’d lost his job and it took him about 6 months to get another.. he had enough savings to live on during that time. He had been in that job since 2017 until he got let go in June 2020 because his performance had dropped and he hadn’t progressed at all.

He has since got a new job but because he his progression hadn’t moved at his old job he got a new job at the same level he was on but for less money (£4000 less) he was told he would get a pay review in January 2021 when his probationary ended and if he met it he would potentially get the original job adverts salary (more than his last job)

So long story short I said to him this morning why didn’t he train to become a railway signaller like my dad? He could train as he has more qualifications than I do and he could freelance in his spare time if he still loved the web developer role and he blew up at all.

Saying that the only way I’d be happy is if we had more money.. it’s always about the more money. He told me I don’t respect him and that if I liked the money so much why I don’t study to become one like my dad. I told him I’m not smart enough, I don’t have any qualifications.. I earn more than him right now as I work in a good industry.

I only suggested it because my dads hours would work really nicely for the lifestyle he wants, he wants to do his hobby in his spare time (painting figures and playing war games) he also wants to do podcasts, paint other people’s figure for commission work, freelance web design and get married, move to a nicer area and so on and so on... it is a long extensive list which he would have more time to do all that as the job is 3 days on 4 days or 4 days on and 3 days off (I can’t remember what my dad said, he likes to work himself to death so he does a hell of a lot of overtime)

I feel awful for suggesting it now as I was just trying to be helpful as I don’t think the web developer role is working out for him. He has two lost two jobs and he hasn’t gained any progression in nearly 6 years. I feel like I lost a bit of respect for him when he lost that job because he didn’t even tell me he had been put on a warning or anything. He had been supporting me through two terrible pregnancies and one illness that required surgery. He told me his work understood and then during lockdown he had a meeting about it then when I asked him what was going on, he told me everything. He then got a call that afternoon to say he’d been let go. I didn’t know any of this and it made me have to return from maternity early which was stressful because with covid we didn’t have the childcare set up.

Was IBU to suggest it? And was DH being unreasonable for blowing up at me?

My dad mentioned on the phone that they were currently taking on people for training to become a signaller.

That seems like an oddly irrelevant thing for him to say unless the narrative in which your DH is a loser who needs steering into a new career is actually coming from your parents.

I also think that if your DH was let go that easily, he's probably working in a short-term contract type environment with minimal rights, and being let go in that situation was probably a financial decision as much as a reflection on him (as was the decision to pay him less than the advertised rate in his new job, no doubt). I'm sure there'll be more, much more, of this in the Covid era and it's not his fault. It could be insulated against to some extent by building up a freelance business on the side of his employed work, which could be combined with time at home and with DCs if the shit hits the fan again. He sounds pretty employable to me tbh.

"why didn’t he train to become a railway signaller"

Nor exactly future proof job

@NOTANUM

The problem is your DH, not the job, the salary or anything else. It sounds like he's difficult to manage based on losing jobs and getting informal warnings. Is it any surprise that he isn't progressing?

Being a web developer/designer is highly lucrative for good people. Is that what he actually does or is he in content or website management?

There is more to his story than meets the eye.

No, op herself says it was because he had to be there all the time with pregnancies and she couldnt be left alone with dc1 due to gallstone attacks therefore lots of time off work for him.

I get it he doesn’t want to do it and it was wrong of me to suggest it. I have apologised but he is still giving me the cold shoulder. I told him the main reasons I suggested it and he walked away

Of course he walked away, because you were still bleating on about it. When you apologise, you don’t say “...but I said it because of X, Y and Z”, you simply apologise. Otherwise it’s meaningless.

Op I’ve read your other post.

You and your DH need to rethink his freelancing. He’s been doing work for your family at 1/10th of what it would cost to get anyone else to do it for your family.

If he’s going to freelance he needs to stop that and charge a proper price.

@ss1234

I've no idea where you're getting the idea that the DH is flaky.
Yes he lost a job but covid and family issues could well account for that. He got another job again quite quickly.
Seems to me he's doing fine in his existing job which is on a similar salary to OP's job. Possibly unlikely to increase in the short term due to covid but still a decent salary presumably. Unless he's unhappy in that job, why would he move? He can always freelance his model painting in spare time ....

I'd love to be a railway signaller but I had to laugh as it came across as very random after your lengthy description of his web-developing career.

I think you were a little unreasonable to suggest such a specific career - perhaps "have you considered retraining and looking into another field if you're not happy". But mentioning your dad and his success in the role, perhaps that really sets him up to think you are comparing him to your dad.

By the way, Network Rail are in the process of replacing their signalling system to the European Train Control System and Traffic Management Programme. This may affect signaller jobs in the future as all signalling will be done out of Rail Operating Centres - so he could train for it (sorry for the pun) but then not be in an ideal position if things change.

Surely if he 'doesn't have a great track record' then the railways is the worst place he could go. 😁
Sorry!

This thread is a classic.

Just one thing to remember here, OP, nobody likes unsolicited advice. That is what mumsnet is good for, all the advice is solicited,

We have had a talk and after a few tears and some home truths, we have both decided we are going to look at signalling. He has agreed like some other posters that what is stopping me from applying for it. I will also look into continuing what I was going to do in my current role which was going to be starting training for HR as I have had some previous training in a previous role. The HR will mean if I don’t want to continue in Housing than I move my qualifications elsewhere.

He is going to continue his freelance work alongside his new job which he loves. He says he understands now why I suggested it too him because he is always talking about trying to find time to do all this stuff (stuff which my dad gets done because the job is longer shifts less days) he says I didn’t explain my thinking to begin with very well at all and just throwing a new job at him did appear to be out of the blue.

I am going to be ringing the doctors tomorrow as he and I feel that I may have some form of depression. I cry a lot about the failure to give birth naturally, I cry about being a terrible mum and employee at work and he says it is not surprising after the last 2 years of difficult pregnancies, health issues and other concerns that something could be wrong. I agree I think I’ve been brushing the stuff that is really bothering me under a carpet and not dealing with the main stuff. I feel ugly and awful and my self care and my self confidence has gone. I have apologised for trying to drag him down with me and for making him think he needs to change careers in order for us to work.

It is me that needs to change not him and I have said this will not be done overnight but I can’t keep finding cracks in my happiness and than blaming him for it.

I know I am partially to blame why he lost his job in June and I should be very very impressed that with the current climate he got a job within 4 weeks of losing his old one and they have promised a pay review in January.

I think saying you want him to be a "Signalman like my Dad was" sounds a mite patronising really. Its like you are comparing him to your Dad ,not very favorably and also "Signalman" doesnt sound quite as sexy as a Web Designer really!Also saying that you only care about the money seems a tad strange. Because as TowelWaffle says ,32k for a 40 hour working week seems quite a lot of hours for not a huge amount of pay! Maybe look at other Careers for him ?If he wants to be a House Husband ,is that something you would consider? I think you both need a heart to heart really .You have done very well without qualifications to be on a good salary within the Housing Sector ,could/would you want to support him if he chose this?

It's not your fault he lost his job OP, he wanted to support you and unfortunately his job wasn't compatible with that; but don't blame yourself. Out of interest I googled signal person, and honestly it doesn't look attractive at the moment, very low paid to start with (have to do the apprenticeship effectively to have access to the required course), and long hours with a salary ceiling that's not overly impressive considering he will be reskilling. Sounds a good idea for you to speak to your GP, I found them really helpful, they should be able to fast track as you have a young child etc.

If you earn more than him working in Housing I'm guessing he's not particularly good at what he does or he doesn't have that much experience?

I have the idea, rightly or wrongly, that there's a lot of competition for signaller's jobs and it can be stressful if you're working in a big (box?)

if he 'doesn't have a great track record'

He'd just need some extra training.

Great update. He sounds lovely!
Cut yourself some slack. You have 2 small children & you both work.
I understand the CS guilt (I had 3). Try to focus on the wonderful fact that you & baby made it through alive, rather than the disappointing necessity of a CS, and try to move on. 💐

@WitchesSpelleas

if he 'doesn't have a great track record'

He'd just need some extra training.

👍😁

Sorry OP.

I crossed with your update.

Wishing you well

[quote Logiclady94]@kcar- he was let go in June because of poor performance and not progressing at all since 2017. He was put on a warning in January 2019 because of his attendance and his performance. He never told me any of this and he then agreed to try for baby number 2 because we were both in stable jobs etc.. he didn’t tell me he was on an informal warning. The 2nd pregnancy went wrong and he ended up on a formal warning but again didn’t say anything. Fast forward to January and our son was born premature and he concentrated on work less and less then in June he was let go during lockdown.[/quote]
I remember your previous thread OP and I don’t think I posted but I was in a minority of those who thought your DH had actually behaved very, very badly.

The crucial point is that he deliberately withheld vital information from you before you decided to ttc DC2. He withheld it because he knew if you had that information - that his job was at risk because of him missing time due to attending appointments with you - you absolutely wouldn’t have agreed to ttc again at that point.

That means to me that he actually coerced you into doing something you wouldn’t have done of your own free will. And not something small or trivial either.

It is recognised that having sex with someone without protection when they have only consented to sex with protection is a form of rape, because we recognise that deception about something like that negates consent. Now obviously I’m not saying this was rape as clearly you were consenting to the sex itself quite freely but I believe it is on a similar level of gravity, the fact he deceived you on such a fundamental issue and with such enormous consequences for you.

The complications you had in your pregnancy and your newborn son’s health issues, as well as being very traumatic for you, meant that he needed more and more time off; time off that led to him losing his job and time off that he wouldn’t have needed if he’d been honest with you from the start because you just wouldn’t have agreed to ttc.

Nearly everyone on your other thread was telling you what an amazing guy he is for supporting you so much and being so protective.

I found his behaviour horrifying and sinister. I still do.

He had no right to take that decision away from you by deliberately leaving you in ignorance of a key fact. Choosing to conceive a child is pretty much the biggest decision a couple can ever make and you were entitled to expect him to be honest about all the circumstances.

I seem to remember you asked him repeatedly about all the time off he was having and whether it was causing a problem at work and he lied to you over and over again, saying it was fine when it clearly wasn’t. Again, this led to you making different choices to the ones you would have made if you had been in full possession of the facts, and when he finally lost his job it was you that had to sort out the mess by going back to work early with all the issues that entailed.

I have to admit, I laughed too at your OP on this thread, it did sound so completely left field and weird, initially. But realising who you are, I can see why you might have thought it was a good idea, and I think there are serious issues in your marriage that you’re not addressing and this is maybe a distraction from that.

I’m afraid he doesn’t sound nearly such a nice guy as you want to make him out to be, and the things he said to you in this argument confirm that impression for me. I thought then and I think now it may be time to take off the rose tinted glasses and look at your DH a bit more clearly.

I think I’ve been brushing the stuff that is really bothering me under a carpet and not dealing with the main stuff. I feel ugly and awful and my self care and my self confidence has gone. I have apologised for trying to drag him down with me and for making him think he needs to change careers in order for us to work.

It is me that needs to change not him and I have said this will not be done overnight but I can’t keep finding cracks in my happiness and than blaming him for it.

Oh god this is actually chilling to read, especially “it is me that needs to change not him”.

He is gaslighting you massively. Massively. A huge part of why you feel so crap is the fact the person you trust most, the person supposed to love you the most, deceived you on something absolutely huge and with huge consequences for you.

That is what you need to address, or rather what he needs to address.

I thjnk making suggestions like this without him having brought it up is only ever going to lead to trouble. I know you meant well but it was very insensitive.

If he’d said....oh my career is shit, it doesn’t pay well, I don’t know what else to do then it would be a different story. You say you’ve lost some respect for him.....I bet that comes over in bucketloads to him.

My dad has been doing since I was three and my grandma did and my grandad was a manager. Honestly I know these things my stepmums brother is doing the training course to be one too.

So because sa few of your family members chose this career path, you think your DH should as well by the sounds of it.

Quite honestly I doubt this is a career most people dream of...and many people actually want to enjoy their jobs...it's not all about the money or the working hours.

He may also not be so keen to retrain and do exams, especially with such young children.

It seems like you meant well, it was the way you delivered what you had to say.

Op that’s a good update but be wary of taking it all on as you who needs to change. Your DH needs to communicate better with you and include you in his life. The bad as well as the good.

Good luck.

You do seem overly fixated on your dad and how wonderfully he did things. I wouldn’t like that constant comparison.