DS bullying a child at school

[orangesalad]

Posting for traffic and name changed as potentially outing.

Found out today that my ds13 has been nasty to a child at school today... throwing food over the child's head, making a laughing stock out of the child's dandruff (which was caused by the food my ds dropped on him) the child was also pooped on by a bird and due to that and my son throwing food over them the child threw their blazer in the bin at school. My ds13 seems to be having a good laugh about it with his friends over WhatsApp which is how I've found out and what bothers me also is my DS was telling both myself and my DH about how this 'crazy' kid had thrown their blazer in the bin at school today. We asked why and he just said he didn't know and the conversation moved on.

I'm going to speak to DS in the morning and see what he says but I've already seen what happened via his phone. I will also call the school first thing Monday but I just feel so disappointed and sorry for the child this happened to. Having been bullied throughout my school years I understand what impact that can have on a child and so I've spoken to my kids many times and encouraged them to be kind. Wwyd

People keep using the word ‘popular’ to describe these nasty characters.
Children do too - ‘they are in the popular crowd miss’.
They are not ‘popular’. The majority of children hate them, are intimidated by them and are scared of them.
They are sick of being dominated and put down by people like your son.

I have read your updates OP but not all the other posts. Usually people bully because of bad feelings they have inside which needs to be investigated by you. Also where there is a lack of empathy or lack of respect for others which can be taught. Both of these things will need a lot of input from you and I'd start here, not on thinking up consequences which might have a short term affect but won't heop with the underlying problems. I'd have a look at the ahaparenting site as that is research based parenting advice, look at bullying and look at the sections on teenagers etc

My dc are younger but have sometimes been in the "bullied" camp and sometimes the "bullying" camp - it is stressful either way so I feel for you. But there are things you can do to change things. It might take some time with revisiting and reminding from time to time.

When my daughter was assaulted by another pupil I went to the police.

The op might find she’s not in control of this situation.

Ring the police and tell them your son assaulted another child in school. If you don't do it then I hope the other child's parents do.

The school should be more on top of this for the benefit of all the children.

A boy in DD group once started on bullying behaviour. The whole group made clear to the boy that this behaviour was not on. They staged kind of an intervention ...

Your DS should be doing chores anyway tbh. I don't think getting him to do jobs that he should be doing anyway is the way to teach him a lesson.

Selling his console to get the money to pay for a new blazer would be better. I would get him to take the pictures and write the advert then you post it online. Now that would have more of an impact.

How very dare you pp talk about my patenting? How the fuck do you know what my parenting is like? Because I used the word "disappointing".
Some of you may not even be the parents of teen boys.
How do you know op isn't angry enough! How do you know her parenting style?
You seem to forget there are real people on the other end of the screen.
How about constructive advice instead of blame and finger pointing where you know nothing about the real lives of people.

We're not the strictest parents in the world but we aren't lenient by any means. DS always seems to not care about any rules set by us or the school. If he thinks he can get away with something he will just do it which really worries us.

This isn't really an appropriate reaction - being 'worried' is passive. It should be a productive and constructive response based on tackling the problem. The historical problem is that he has no respect for authority and sees all your 'rules' as claptrap.

What he's done is genuinely horrible, and I would also be looking at options like school relocation. BUT, there's no point in just thinking about punitive measures - 'going down on him like a tonne of bricks', banning this and that. Your ultimate goal is to change his behaviour - so if you want to do that, you you have to be smart and think about other options, including counselling, in-depth discussions with him, reading about mental health - trying to actually connect with your son, rather than push him away.

Op I don’t necessarily think you are responsible for your ds’s behaviour and it is positive that you are taking this so seriously, but this isn’t an isolated incident and you should be very concerned.

You know your son and what may/may not work but I don’t think the entire focus should be on punishment, you need to put some real effort into making ds understand what he has done and the impact his actions have had. 13 is quite old for a child to show no empathy at all and I would find this the most worrying aspect of all.

I agree with pp’s that your ds may need professional help. And if you take this as seriously as you say, it may be necessary to make him move schools to protect the other children who have a right to feel safe. Your ds seems to have cultivated some very toxic behaviour and a complete reset may be the only way.

I think that youre in a really tricky situation. I remember being really worried one of my kids was picking on someone else and it being completely impossible to find realistic advice on how to tackle it. It was hard to find advice from the perspective of the parent of the bully at all. I remember feeling really alone and ashamed and powerless, because of course if something happens on your watch its one thing, but when it happens on the schools watch, its still you who is responsible, despite you not being able to control the dynamics there, or who he hangs out with.

I definitely think removal of electronics will help. He might not care at first but he will eventually. It might make things more of a nightmare at home though, and it will be hard to enforce when lockdown if needs remote learning.

If you just use punishment though, then you will likely not help the situation because conversations need to be had about kindness. Ground rules. Specific. About mocking people. Leaving people alone. Not targetting people. Explaining about social codes. Also trying to do nice things together and having male role models to talk to him

"You need to teach him empathy for others."

Easier said that done. Some children just aren't that nice.

Plus a lot of boys are just oblivious. Ds1's friends all play football, naice families. They are the most self centred, oblivious to how good they've got it/ how Privileged they are, swan around, in cloud cuckoo land.

We're not the strictest parents in the world
I think the answer lies there

This has upset me so much - imagine how humiliated that child must have felt to throw his blazer in the bin, and now at home all weekend worrying about going to school on Monday with no blazer, and dreading what will happen next to him with the bullies. His parents may have no means to get a new one on time, he may be in trouble with them too now, and be worried about being in trouble in school also for not having a blazer. It is making me cry and I have never even been bullied.

I agree that your son/everyone knowing he has paid for the child's blazer will make the bullied child always embarrassed abut wearing it. Is there a way for you to quietly and quickly find out who the parents are and give them the money for it, without either child knowing? Then dump your own son's blazer so the panic of getting as new one transfers on to him, let him work for it and have to explain himself in school. Plus all the other consequences/apologies etc.

This is awful OP, please do all you can to make this better, and quickly. That poor boy :-(

Please please OP sort this out with your son ASAP. We hear too many stories of teens being bullied and committing suicide because they can't take anymore. He needs to understand how his actions are making this poor kid feel.

Of course removing electronics will help. “He’s not bothered” - right. A clever, manipulative kid knows exactly how to pretend that a punishment doesn’t work.

I also think the best way forward is to find a way yo get him spoken to by the police. They can let him know he is committing a crime and next time he will be arrested. Also lots of punishment and see a counsellor. What he did is so terrible.

@HooverWhenTheCoastIsClear

Good for you stopping it. Get him to work to buy a new blazer.

Is your son showing off to try and fit in? Getting bullied himself?

THIS ^

I'd wipe the floor with my child if I found out they were bullying - and yes! Pay for a new blazer and keep the money out of your DS's [pocket money. And pouring food on someone is an actual assault.

Don't let him think he can get away with this sort of cruel behaviour.

And in the unlikely event that he is getting bullied himself, you need to know in order to stop it - but you still need to pay for the blazer.

@OoohTheStatsDontLie

Hi OP

I think there are two separate parts to this.

Punishment and natural consequences for his behaviour. It sounds like you have this well in hand in terms of removal of privileges, telling the school etc.

Secondly though and probably more importantly, he needs to learn empathy and thats a lot more tricky. Massive punishments will not help with this, they will just make him see you as the bad guy and he will make sure he doesn't get caught next time. I'm not sure of the answer here, but I think researching together the effects of bullying and looking at videos of people who have been bullied or parents of children who hsve been bullied would be a good start. See how he reacts. He may not be moved in which case I think there is some more work to do. Possibly with professional help. Empathy is a very hard thing to teach. I'd try and get him to focus on why as well, is he not secure enough in his friendships that they can like each other for themselves rather than how they humiliate others for group amusement? Does he need some new friends?

Excellent post. Worth reposting so the op definitely takes notice of it

Exactly a letter it total crap. Cop out. Bullied child more than likely doesn’t want to see him but I’d suggest it if both parents are present and can ensure it’s done properly. It needs to be sincere also. Not just “sorry”.

Bullying is such an emotive subject, and the emotions are the highly destructive ones of shame, humiliation, hopelessness and fear. Not just in the ones being bullied and bullying, but in the adults around (such as in this discussion).

I do not believe that the solution lies in these emotions. I agree with those recommending empathy - empathising with ourselves and the baggage we carry from our own childhood and nurturing empathy in the bully for their victim.

Bullying is about power and control. Those of us who have bullied or been bullied typically have a very low tolerance to lack of control or power, such as social capital. They tend to be leaders, ring leaders, outcasts or mavericks.
Those who tend not to bully or be bullied have high levels of tolerance. They tend to be ignored by bullies and are laid back, happy-go-lucky and by-standers.
There is no right position in this dynamic. The solution is to step out of it.

That poor boy my hearts breaking for him reading that. How cruel. Did your son say why he picked on him? I would be devastated if my son did that to another child as well as punishment you need to find out why and you need to make him aware of how his words and actions can have an enormous effect on someones mental health/wellbeing. I always remember watching that poor lady on This Morning who's teenage ds killed himself due to bullying. I wish schools could show her interview because it was truely heart breaking.

Whilst I agree with a lot of this I’m not sure as a victim of bullying I would have wanted a letter of apology, it was humiliating enough.
I think a letter of apology to the child’s parents who can share the letter if appropriate for their child. Remember this is ‘apology’ is about the other child not the child bullying. I’d go as far as addressing this parent to parent and limit the details the other child wontt want to be humiliated infront if their parents either, they probably haven’t told anyone.

The victim will just want the bullying to stop. Don't humiliate them further.

I am sorry OP you must be really disappointed and heart broken having found out what you have.I think a short sharp shock works better in these casesit doesnt need prolonging.If you embarass your son then he will learn as he wouldnt possibly expect you do that.I would take your son to school and pick him up and make a bit of a show of him that as he cant be trusted he looses all rights to go on his own...I would also make him in front of you and his friends apologise to this other boy and make him do it properly.Show him up for being a bully and show him it has consequences...he will learn fast. You sound a great mum and I know you will find a way through this terrible shock. Good luck and what ever you do stick with it and keep an eye on it ,The fear and dispair that goes with bullying is so powerful it has to be stopped..you can do this and by doing it you will be doing your son the biggest favour in a life lesson he needs to learn however uncomfortable it sits with you carry it though it is for the best. Good luck and best wishes sent

She is angry ! Op I mean
I agree inform the school
Have a very
Measured and calm
Conversations around the impact this behaviour will have
Some punishment
And a sincere apology

I wish all
Bullies parents were like you !