DS bullying a child at school

[orangesalad]

Posting for traffic and name changed as potentially outing.

Found out today that my ds13 has been nasty to a child at school today... throwing food over the child's head, making a laughing stock out of the child's dandruff (which was caused by the food my ds dropped on him) the child was also pooped on by a bird and due to that and my son throwing food over them the child threw their blazer in the bin at school. My ds13 seems to be having a good laugh about it with his friends over WhatsApp which is how I've found out and what bothers me also is my DS was telling both myself and my DH about how this 'crazy' kid had thrown their blazer in the bin at school today. We asked why and he just said he didn't know and the conversation moved on.

I'm going to speak to DS in the morning and see what he says but I've already seen what happened via his phone. I will also call the school first thing Monday but I just feel so disappointed and sorry for the child this happened to. Having been bullied throughout my school years I understand what impact that can have on a child and so I've spoken to my kids many times and encouraged them to be kind. Wwyd

@Cheeeeislifenow

Stop giving the op a hard time, you can often do everything right but your children can disappoint you with their behaviour.

Disappoint? The fact that you and OP both think that this vile behaviour is just disappointing, says a lot about how the parenting style is part of the problem. He was violent to another child and humiliated him severely. Children have been known to commit suicide for less. Maybe less of the disappointed, and more of angry, disgusted, enduring severe consequences.

Also I think it's a but harsh people saying its essentially your fault. You found out that he was bullying over the phone before and took appropriate action.
I think a lot of people would be shocked at the behaviour of their teenage son when he was in a pack of other teenage boys. Teens will do almost anything to fit in, parents have limited influence when they are with their friends.
My brother was a bully. He was really popular at school and it just gave him some sort of horrible power as he seemed to be able to do anything and people still liked him. There was never anything physical but lots of laughing at people for being short / spotty / fat etc. My parents were at their wits end, grounding him, punishing him, explaining to him, taking away privileges etc. He was still a shit at school when he could get away with it. My mum was absolutely mortified. This was in the days before counselling was common place and before there was help on the internet etc, I'm not sure what else my parents could have actually done.

I think about 14 was the worst age. Then he grew up a bit, changed his friendship groups and eventually turned into someone who stands up for other people and actually intervenes and calls it out when others are being bullied or abused (being a massive bloke helps here I guess). We are similar in age and my parents brought us up the same, I have never bullied anyone in my life. Not all childrens behaviour is directly attributable to parents.

I didn't even see that your son has done this before! He dares to do it again?! Christ alive, what are you and your DH up to?! Parent your fucking son.

@OoohTheStatsDontLie all children don’t need the same parenting style because they are not the same children. I’m your parents should have parented him differently to you because of his vile tendencies.

Why didn’t you wake him when you found out and roast him up down and sideways?

Do you think your son will meekly explain why he has no blazer? Or tell everyone.. giving him a badge of honour being the ‘bad’ boy.

The other children will already know what has happened and believe me (secondary school teacher) the majority will hate your son and his awful friends for what he has done.
They are unlikely to challenge him and the pack of boys who did this and reluctant to say anything to them (for fear of being targeted themselves) but the vast majority will be as disgusted as you are.
Teenagers can be very empathetic.
The rotten eggs spoil things for everyone.

You say he knows better but that clearly isn’t the case. Someone who knew better wouldn’t do it and blatantly lie to you while laughing about it to their friends.

That’s not the actions of someone who knows better.

Hoping you take his phone away and replace it with something basic since he only need it for emergency texting and calling.

I think I would also say that due to the schools obvious lack of discipline I would be looking at other schools for him, that might give him something else to think about.

Well
Done OP - thanks for taking this seriously.

Not sure if anyone’s said this but the number one thing I’d do is sit him down and ask him why he thought it was acceptable to target this child in particular. There will be a reason - maybe they have no friends, they get angry easily, they’re poorly looked after, they have a disability etc. A friend of mine experienced similar because people thought he was gay (he is). And then once you’ve got into the ugly psychology behind this you can really go to town on the stuff everyone else has suggested about empathy and breaking down his terrible “logic”. You need him to understand that he has dehumanised this kid (or maybe a group of kids) and realise how disgusting that is.

He needs to imagine being vulnerable and helpless - how would he feel if his dad threw food over him and bullied him for his appearance? Or if he were mugged or assaulted?

Make him apologise in front of the whole class, he won't bully any one again.

I'm amazed by all these posters who know for sure that the OP isn't angry enough or that her DS isn't awake right now. Is this a new Mumsnet feature that you can read minds and see into people's houses? 🤔

I would actually be really tempted to move his schools.

He certainly wouldn’t be hanging out with those mates outside of school ever again. But then. He wouldn’t be out the door if he was mine and I’d have dragged him out of bed last night

@orangesalad

I'm really angry. DH also. So frustrated with DS as we know he knows better. He's not being bullied at school. He's very confident and plays the fool unfortunately.

Making him pay for the blazer is spot on!

Loads of research shows that many bullies ( not all of course) are popular and well liked generally. Being popular is very valuable currency in a school and if a child is very very attached to that ( perhaps along with an eager to please personality) they want to make others laugh and they don't mind if someone gets hurt in the process or at least they don't mind beforehand, if they are fundundamentally ok people they will feel bad afterwards. Other bullies actually gain pleasure from hurting people, though thankfully there are rarer the the first type.

Hopefully your son is one of the.former type of bully He does need to be confronted with this and punished . The difficulty is you won't really have any idea whether this is continuing to happen in future. You only found out about this by chance . So much of this behaviour is unchecked in schools as it goes unnoticed by both teachers and parents .

On a related point I am always astonished that so.many adults believe the myth about schools being so important for children's mental health. For a sizable minority school is a very unpleasant environment.

Also. I’d contact the school to arrange walking him into his tutor or class every morning and explain when you walk through the door why you’ve escorted him there.

If he’s any inch a decent human being he’ll be embarrassed enough to then.. know better.

Make him apologise in front of the whole class, he won't bully any one again.

He will smirk. He will shuffle. He will ‘apologise’. And he will take it out on the poor, embarrassed bullied kid, who has already had food tipped over him and will now have to endure a public discussion of the matter. Please do not do this.

I would actually be really tempted to move his schools.

Definitely something to think about. It does sound like he is a bit too comfortable where he is.

For a sizable minority school is a very unpleasant environment.

Agreed. If someone treated my child like this I would want them permanently excluded.

I mean - looking at human history, he may see this as a road to success and may go far. He'll probably learn to hide it better.

What did the school do?
And the witnesses? Did none of his classmates, fellow pupils intervene? Where were the teachers? Supervisers?

The moving school idea/threat isd a good idea, nobody wants to be the new kid. Can you contact the other lads parents to let them know that you are aware and furious at your son and his mates.

OP you are getting a hard time on here. This always happens when anyone says their child has been bullying. I was bullied myself throughout school so I know how bad the consequences can be. But I wanted to say, yes take it seriously, but don't let this thread drive you to doing something you will later regret. Take time to think what will be most effective in getting through to your son.

I think it's great that you are taking this very seriously OP. So many parents don't give a shit.

Can I also recommend Bully Proof Kids by Stella O'Malley. It looks at several bullying situations with sympathy and understanding, both from the point of view of the various types of kid who may end up bullied and those who may end up bullying.

Good luck OP.

I would want him excluded for this. To be very honest. That’s a physical assault on another pupil.

You may find the school do that anyway and it might be out of your hands.

I think you should permanently swap his phone for a cheap pay as you go that can only make phone calls / texts. No wattsapp / internet capable phone for at least a year, no giving the expensive phone back after only a few months: you tried that and it failed. Donate ‘his’ phone to charity: he has used it as a tool of bullying and thus demonstrated he doesn’t deserve it.

Permanently delete any social media accounts he has, and tell him bullies aren’t allowed on social media.

Call the school and ask how to discreetly pay for the blazer. Make him write a letter of apology that is much more than “I’m sorry” he needs to explain why he did it and if he doesn’t know why then he needs to write “I don’t know why I’m like this, I wish I was a better person” etc

Consider asking the school to suspend your son for a week, or at least give a load of detentions, so that other kids know he has been punished. While he is off, make him work hard so it isn’t free time.

Chores/general penalties at home are unlikely to change his behaviour as subconsciously he won’t associate it with the behaviour and will just feel ‘parents are mean’. I wouldn’t bother with extra chores doubt they will be effective.

Agree with comments upthread about needing to teach him empathy. That is hard but can be done. He needs to practice looking after someone/something. Volunteering etc. I’m not convinced viewing videos about the impact of bullying will help, he might just get a kick out if it.

Tell him if anything like this ever happens gain you are putting him in a different school to separate him from that friendship group. And follow through.

Research the causes of bullying and explore them with him and possibly a therapist. Does he feel powerless? Etc. It is interesting that he chose to talk to you about a ‘crazy kid throwing away his blazer’, seems like he wanted to discuss the incident with you without giving away his role. That means something psychologically I dunno what, ask a professional.

You may find the school do that anyway and it might be out of your hands.

Nah, they won't, in their eyes it won't be serious enough.

@PhilCornwall1

You may find the school do that anyway and it might be out of your hands.

Nah, they won't, in their eyes it won't be serious enough.

Sadly probably,true.

I agree with a previous poster who said they would be tempted to move his school. That would stop the bullying straight away and I think is an effective punishment for such vile behaviour that is very clearly not a one off. I think at the very least he should be threatened with it and you should take him to the school and ask them to inform you if any bullying occurs again so you’re aware and can act upon it.

Do the school even know what’s he done? He’s actually assaulted someone and I think he needs to be punished by the school as well and if I was the other child’s parent I would involve the police as I would be concerned about this escalating.