AIBU to think that secondary school teachers should be apolitical in classroom and encourage debate

[vdbfamily]

DS17 and DD14 both came home today and seperately stated that they were surprised their teachers were allowed to be so anti Republican/Trump and that there was an assumption everyone agreed with them. FWIW neither of my kids like Trump but they felt uncomfortable with the fact that teachers were making derogatory comments about any idiots who voted for Trump and this was several teachers for both of them. WIBU to contact school and suggest it should be a place where students are encouraged to discuss pro's and cons of different parties and not get dictated to about such things! My daughter was saying that some of the kids who would not have known any different were then parroting the teachers views without really knowing what they were talking about.

Trumps not right atall. Teachers are correct.

It's not about whether they are correct. Presumably pro-Trump people think they are correct too. That's the point - do you want all teachers to be allowed to air their political views to kids, or just the ones you happen to agree with?

If anyone wants to high light trump you need to go back to ex presidents, Carter, nixson, Clinton?

Both.

I'm personally sick to the back teeth of our primary school heads smug comments, leaving me to believe and from her actions that she is far left socialist... And teachers personal comments when I have been asking about my dc.. Again leaving me to believe they are one political side etc.

Taking that through to secondary... That's a lot of attempted brain washing.... Overall I do think it's the family who will have the most influence however.

We can see how easily brainwashing happens over Xmas eg... '' my family never did santa.. We didn't miss it so I will do the same for my dc... '' or '' we do one gift from santa because that's what I had ''.

Dh and I actively discussed what we had and didn't have (he didn't have santa at all)) so we could have the Xmas we want not the one we had as children...

Same with my dc, I raise them to question everything and be what they want and not have to feel ashamed.

I shudder when well known socialist posters on here who campaign etc say they would feel ashamed if their dc voted differently to them! I cringe to their dc would follow them mindlessly down the Jeremy corybn racist anti semitic rabbit hole.

I tell my dc I personally don't like any extremes and most answers to different questions and problems will come from the middle, sometimes a little further left, sometimes a little further right.

I don't think it's healthy to view life through any glasses of thought whether it's religion or politics...

There is a loss of debating going on, every school should by law have debating teams.

If teaching is full of socialist indoctrinator a as the conspiracy theories tell us, they aren't doing a very good job.

Under normal cricumstances I'd probably agree that the teacher should keep their opinions to themselves but after what trump has said and done over the course of his presidency and especially over the course of the election to denigrate the rule of law and encourage violent reactionaries I think that he is completely fair game. We need to remind out children that this kind of stuff is not acceptable as our current government has plenty of form.

Has it occurred to teachers their students might not be interested in their views ? Or at best the children are just parroting what they say.it’s so unprofessional.

Why aren't teachers allowed opinions?

Teaching cannot be non-political, education and the lack of funding is political, as is the issue of free school meals not being available in the holidays. There is a line however, and it seems the way that the dislike of Trump has been portrayed seems wrong. You can have a discussion about why half of the US hates Trump and about his behaviour being contrary to most people's values, without it being anti a particular political party.

I don’t really agree with insults so wouldn’t like to hear a teacher - or anyone for that matter - refer to people as idiots for expressing their views. But I have no issue with a teacher speaking their mind or expressing their opinion. The world is full of people with opposing views in all walks of life. Children should not be uncomfortable with being exposed to opinions that are different to their own. Or that of their parents.

I think teachers should encourage critical thinking, how to appraise different sources of media/social media and how to question assumptions - made by themselves and others.

Give children those tools and they’re set for political debate for life!

They do. Critical thinking has been taught for quite some time. Consequently I find it pretty disappointing that it hasn't had as much influence on young people as I'd hoped.

Realistically, it's impossible to manage a class discussion with teenagers while not giving away ones opinions on anything. Particularly when it comes to Trump. It yourself in the teachers position when students bring up separating children from their mothers, or his "grab em by the pussy" comments. Do you act like there's nothing wrong with that?

Where I draw the line is insulting his supporters. Whatever I think of them.

Currently teaching newspapers to my Year 12 media class. I've told them I'm not allowed to share my opinions but I'm pretty sure they can work it out and not one of them defended Trump and his actions on Wednesday morning as we looked at the news.

But surely your media class are looking at how the media report and portray rather than what your opinion of something is?

I think teachers should encourage critical thinking, how to appraise different sources of media/social media and how to question assumptions - made by themselves and others
Absolutely. I find it shocking that teachers think they have a right to share their views in an insulting way to kids who are so easily influenceable.

Like the majority of Brits, I find the man despicable but some don't and their kids have a right to go to school without feeling intimated by their teachers' emotional outbursts.

*Realistically, it's impossible to manage a class discussion with teenagers while not giving away ones opinions on anything

Has it occurred to teachers their students might not be interested in their views ? Or at best the children are just parroting what they say.it’s so unprofessional.

Has it occurred to you that students might actually ask teachers their views?
You've got a very limited view of students if you think they unquestioningly parrot what teachers say. Has it even occurred to you that many of us view our students and interested and engaged young people? That many students actually want to discuss these issues and will often bring them up? That they are exposed to a range of views and are intelligent enough to understand that different adults have different views?

But sure don't let that get in the way of claims of unprofessionalism and a negative view of students who are incapable of thought.

Pressed too quickly!

Realistically, it's impossible to manage a class discussion with teenagers while not giving away ones opinions on anything

Of course it is perfectly possible. You let the kids discuss it and you only act as a moderator. If they ask you, you say they don't need to know, the same way you would if they asked you where you lived.

Teachers need to teach kids boundaries and show as a good example of it.

@LolaSmiles

Has it occurred to teachers their students might not be interested in their views ? Or at best the children are just parroting what they say.it’s so unprofessional.

Has it occurred to you that students might actually ask teachers their views?
You've got a very limited view of students if you think they unquestioningly parrot what teachers say. Has it even occurred to you that many of us view our students and interested and engaged young people? That many students actually want to discuss these issues and will often bring them up? That they are exposed to a range of views and are intelligent enough to understand that different adults have different views?

But sure don't let that get in the way of claims of unprofessionalism and a negative view of students who are incapable of thought.

This. I wonder how many of those posting on this thread have actually been in a classroom with a group of engaged, interested, opinionated young people who are really keen to discuss what's going on in the world around them.

I think some people have a very out-of-date view of the student/teacher dynamic.

@PurpleWave

Do you see the difference between these 2 statements?

Trump is a manbaby who acts like a toddler.

Trump has done X, Y and Z which is bad because of A, B and C.

One is factual and absolutely OK to be taught, the other is an opinion, whether the teacher believes it or not.

Neither are factual A third option is Trump has done X,Y and Z and then the pupils can discuss whether it is bad or not. The teacher's opinion is neither here nor there

This. I wonder how many of those posting on this thread have actually been in a classroom with a group of engaged, interested, opinionated young people who are really keen to discuss what's going on in the world around them
I highly doubt many of them have had the pleasure of debating and discussing current affairs and big issues with students, which is why they seem to have such a limited view of the students. Then again, most of them also seem to think schools are just one big left wing conspiracy who will magically turn students into Corbyn worshippers. It's sweet they think we have that much power when they see their classes a few times a week 190 days of the year.

Nobody is truly impartial and there's something much more authentic about saying 'I think X, but here are other positions thay say Y and Z' in appropriate contexts than pretending to be neutral and value free.

Honestly I'd say some of the best discussions I've had have been with students and some of the most idiotic takes on current affairs have come from adults.

A third option is Trump has done X,Y and Z and then the pupils can discuss whether it is bad or not. The teacher's opinion is neither here nor there

I see.
"Trump has talked about grabbing women by the pussy, but as your teacher I shall say nothing on this and just hope you realise that misogyny isn't ok"

"Boris has made racist comments about Muslim women, but as your teacher I should ignore the professional standards I've signed up to and say nothing"

@LolaSmiles

A third option is Trump has done X,Y and Z and then the pupils can discuss whether it is bad or not. The teacher's opinion is neither here nor there

I see.
"Trump has talked about grabbing women by the pussy, but as your teacher I shall say nothing on this and just hope you realise that misogyny isn't ok"

"Boris has made racist comments about Muslim women, but as your teacher I should ignore the professional standards I've signed up to and say nothing"

Oh FGS "Trump has talked about grabbing women by the pussy, but as your teacher I shall say nothing on this and just hope you realise that misogyny isn't ok" No you wouldn't do that. You would ask what they thought about his statements and actions. If they are wrong why are they wrong. What is the impact of his statements and actions? Who suffers? etc. etc. A teacher's job is to skilfully draw out opinions. If a pupil said it was OK for Trump to talk like that then you can challenge it. But saying straight out that Trump is a nasty misogynist is far too emotive.

@LolaSmiles

A third option is Trump has done X,Y and Z and then the pupils can discuss whether it is bad or not. The teacher's opinion is neither here nor there

I see.
"Trump has talked about grabbing women by the pussy, but as your teacher I shall say nothing on this and just hope you realise that misogyny isn't ok"

"Boris has made racist comments about Muslim women, but as your teacher I should ignore the professional standards I've signed up to and say nothing"

Part of our professional standards explicitly details not expressing political opinions.

HTH.

We are always reminded not to express a political preference for Scottish and UK elections. For the US ones? It’s not like teachers can influence the voting so no such restriction. If a pupil asks I’ll tell them what I think of Trump/Biden. If they don’t ask then it’s unlikely to be discussed in my classroom.

This is nothing new. Twenty years ago my history teacher told me that Mrs Thatcher was an ‘evil bitch’.

I don't reveal my political affiliations as I don't think it's appropriate, my subject is all about arguments and counter arguments though so
I'm lucky in that respect- I like playing devils advocate and encouraging freedom of speech. I also like looking at the whys of people voting particular ways and actively engage people who disagree with me, during Brexit I found that interesting!

However on the day after the most recent election as a labour voter it was a tough day, I simply repeated "I'm happy for those who won and sad for those who lost". Inwardly I was devastated!

I've also used every election and it's results as
an opportunity to remind and reiterate the importance of voting, you don't and you don't have a right to complain later in my view.

Part of our professional standards explicitly details not expressing political opinions
HTH
You think challenging men talking about grabbing women by the pussy and making racist comments about Muslim women is being political?

And also for the silly 'HTH' , the standarza don't say staff can't express opinions.

Part 2 of the standards say this:

Part Two: Personal and professional conduct
A teacher is expected to demonstrate consistently high standards of personal and
professional conduct. The following statements define the behaviour and attitudes which
set the required standard for conduct throughout a teacher’s career.
 Teachers uphold public trust in the profession and maintain high standards of
ethics and behaviour, within and outside school, by:
 treating pupils with dignity, building relationships rooted in mutual respect, and at all times observing proper boundaries appropriate to a teacher’s professional position
 having regard for the need to safeguard pupils’ well-being, in accordance with statutory provisions
 showing tolerance of and respect for the rights of others
 not undermining fundamental British values, including democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty and mutual respect, and tolerance of those with different faiths and beliefs
 ensuring that personal beliefs are not expressed in ways which exploit pupils’ vulnerability or might lead them to break the law.
 Teachers must have proper and professional regard for the ethos, policies and practices of the school in which they teach, and maintain high standards in their own attendance and punctuality.
 Teachers must have an understanding of, and always act within, the statutory frameworks which set out their professional duties and responsibilities.

Just for emphasis: ensuring that personal beliefs are not expressed in ways which exploit pupils’ vulnerability or might lead them to break the law

The standards talk about expressing beliefs in ways that exploit vulnerability or encourage the law to be broken, not a ban on perfectly acceptable and civil debate and discussion.