AIBU to think that secondary school teachers should be apolitical in classroom and encourage debate

[vdbfamily]

DS17 and DD14 both came home today and seperately stated that they were surprised their teachers were allowed to be so anti Republican/Trump and that there was an assumption everyone agreed with them. FWIW neither of my kids like Trump but they felt uncomfortable with the fact that teachers were making derogatory comments about any idiots who voted for Trump and this was several teachers for both of them. WIBU to contact school and suggest it should be a place where students are encouraged to discuss pro's and cons of different parties and not get dictated to about such things! My daughter was saying that some of the kids who would not have known any different were then parroting the teachers views without really knowing what they were talking about.

So, if it's OK to be political in the classroom, how would you feel about a Trump-supporting teacher doing the same thing from their own perspective?

Happens all too often with some teachers my kids come hime saying teacher said this or that often just teachers opinion but they are supposed to remain neutral and not force there views on kids.
But then many people try to do it be facebook or on here etc , people always think only their way is right

I'm glad I'm a lecturer not a teacher. I don't think I could keep my mouth shut 😂

If a pupil raises it I don't think there's anything wrong with a teacher stating their opinion, but they should be diplomatic in how they convey it and support discussion and appreciation for difference of opinion.

@purplewave Absolutely fine, as long as they were doing it in a way that allowed pupils to have their say and were open to other arguments.

The whole point is there is a massive difference between stating your views when asked to instigate discussion, and stating your views expecting them to be unquestioningly accepted as fact.

The former is life and the latter is control and brainwashing.

@PurpleWave

So, if it's OK to be political in the classroom, how would you feel about a Trump-supporting teacher doing the same thing from their own perspective?

As long as they were able to provide informed reasons for their support and engaged in discussion of opposing views to theirs, fine.

I think teachers should remain impartial, children are receptive to their views, so a raging socialist/capitalist teacher may be accused of abusing their position.

It takes skill to teach ideas you disagree with, so a teacher incapable of presenting opposing political views in a neutral manner is probably a crap teacher.

Absolutely awful op.
I heard the same over the brexit where a teacher sacred the dc, into believing they would never be able to travel, live, work in the eu after brexit and spoke at them with her on views basically.

No balanced open discussion at all.
No safe space at all for dc to question, think.. Come up with their own ideas.

That is what school should provide.

It's not been the trump wipe out predicted, he's actually gotten more votes than last time?

Maybe discus that... Why? Look at speech, content. Biden is a life long politician, but his slate is not squeaky clean.

Plenty to put into discussions with both ways.
I don't feel t should be obvious at all what politics any teacher follows.

Absolutely purple pig and also we seem to be loosing the art of devil's advocate.

I'm notice many times if someone asks a question that could be seen as slightly defending the other side people can't see it.

I’m horrified so many people voted YABU

@TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross

Well that's changing what lots of people have said on this thread, isn't it? No one said anything about informed reasons why Trump is bad, just their own opinions. Trump is so bad, that even if you're normally impartial, you wouldn't be about him.

The OP said there were 'derogatory comments about any idiots who voted for Trump'. That doesn't sound like an environment that encourages discussion, does it?

As I said up thread, there's a difference between -

Trump is a bigot and so is everyone that votes for him. (opinion)

and

I believe Trump is bad because he did X, Y & Z. (fact)

Why not let the facts speak for themselves?

PurplePIG1
On the whole I agree with you. The incapability of someone to consider different views and present alternative views is quite ignorant.

But, I disagree on remaining impartial. As long as what is discussed is age appropriate then I don't see an issue with teachers outlining their views.

For example, my students were talking about lockdown theories a few weeks ago. We had a really interesting discussion and they asked me my opinion on the government rules. It would have been hugely inappropriate for me to undermine the clear messages we have had to send to students by telling them that I think the government is a shit show who doesn't care about them.

But when they've asked if I've seen some of the QAnon things and ask my opinion then I don't think its unreasonable to say that I disagree with them and explain why I think they're damaging.

It's a fine line. I wouldn't want to tell students that he's acting like a lying tantrumming child. As others have said, it should be possible to get the students to debate points themselves, and even to express personal opinions while being clear that others may have valid reasons for having differing views.

For example, Trump and his team using emotive "fight", "steal" language; emotions run high in elections and this could encourage an element of civil disorder; some supporters will rightly question whether their democratic rights are being affected, but I would direct them to the (sadly few so far) senior Republicans who are suggesting any issue should be handled only in court, which seems a more reasonable compromise than the risk of civil disorder from just generally inflaming emotions. I actually do not understand rules that allow votes to be counted that didn't arrive in time, nor rules that allow someone to alter a rejected absentee ballot and resubmit it; however given that those are valid local state rules in place long prior to the election, and not challenged legally before the election, then clearly the votes are legal.

My DD came home from primary school about 7 years ago talking about Michael Goat (she said obviously misheard Gove but he’s still called Goat in our house now!) and how he was ruining schools - that had to have come from the teacher!
I’m completely with you and think it’s wrong for the teachers to impress their political views into their pupils

I'm all for getting kids interested in politics and debate and ideally they should be the ones leading the conversation with teachers remaining impartial.

What Trump is doing is not normal though. We should be highlighting this is not normal and acceptable behaviour from a president. In this instance I would be ok with a teacher giving their opinion.

Yes, you are right.

It might even be ok for a teacher to express a personal opinion on some element, like the tweets about stopping counting votes.

But a teacher saying that anyone who voted for Trump is an idiot? Totally inappropriate. It's not different than talking trash about any group of people who are likely to include the parents of some of the student body.

But in a way this kind of thing really just goes to show how many people who consider themselves sensible and educated have a pretty narrow experience. There are lots of people who voted for Trump that aren't particularly shit-hot for him as a person, or who have reasons that make sense from their position - pragmatic reasons, historical reasons, reasons around rejection of the Democrats platform.

But the people commenting aren't really able to wrap their heads around any of that. Often they don't even have a good sense of who Trump voters are, or their demographics.

As for debate - yes it's an excellent skill, and formal debate is a good thing to do in terms of training to look at things from other perspectives. I would say that with very controversial issues, informal debate in the classroom may not always be a good idea.

I voted YANBU as I honestly agree with you generally. That said, Trump is a moron and clearly anyone with a brain can see that so he’s a possible exception. Generally though, I agree :o)

I teach KS1 (5-7 year olds) and it surprised me how many children know who Trump is and are disgusted by his behaviour. I am careful what I say, but equally have a duty to promote equality and ‘British values’ so although I wouldn’t say “Trump is a bad man” I would say “yes, when he said x it wasn’t very kind” if we were discussing a particular incident.

I don’t know OP.

Hard innit.

A man saying he grabs women by their pussies.

Using the highest office in the world to deny climate change.

Spread disinformation and attach democracy.

Ones got to represent #bothsides.

Usually I would say that teachers should keep their political views to themselves. But there are legitimate political leanings and then there are racist, misogynist, criminal, authoritarian, lying demagogues who try to undermine the democratic process. No way should teachers be normalising and legitimising Trump’s behaviour by giving him the same respect they would offer to other politicians. We need this next generation of voters to understand and resist populism. Call it out, every time.

I'm amazed these teachers have time. I'm too busy during form time, and in lessons I've got to cover the curriculum and exam specifications. We don't have time to discuss anything, it's all knowledge, understanding and subject skills. Then, masks on, off you go, next class.

YANBU, OP. We are supposed to be apolitical in the classroom. Imo it's fine to encourage thought-provoking questions - for example about whether Trump's current attitude is anti-democratic - but it's not ok to be blatantly partisan. Older and more switched-on students may well infer what your views might be, and that's ok, but openly stating your political opinions to impressionable kids isn't on.

My DD came home telling me her history teacher was pro-Trump. She quoted the Middle Eastern peace deal brokered by him.
This made her think.
Yes, Trump has told 20000 untruths whilst in office. But 60 million people chose to vote for him in the last few days. Does this mean they are all idiots?
The teacher then pulled back and told the class that she shouldn't be talking about this.
I won't be writing in to complain. These little leaked opinions are useful for children to hear. Otherwise the only narrative they would hear is that Trump is an evil, self-serving narcissist. (DD hears enough of that from her dad. )
Teachers aren't robots.

Trumps not right atall. Teachers are correct.

Normalizing his behaviour is just wrong.