AIBU to think that secondary school teachers should be apolitical in classroom and encourage debate

[vdbfamily]

DS17 and DD14 both came home today and seperately stated that they were surprised their teachers were allowed to be so anti Republican/Trump and that there was an assumption everyone agreed with them. FWIW neither of my kids like Trump but they felt uncomfortable with the fact that teachers were making derogatory comments about any idiots who voted for Trump and this was several teachers for both of them. WIBU to contact school and suggest it should be a place where students are encouraged to discuss pro's and cons of different parties and not get dictated to about such things! My daughter was saying that some of the kids who would not have known any different were then parroting the teachers views without really knowing what they were talking about.

I had a conversation with a German friend recently.

We were chatting generally about US politics and narcissistic leaders generally. She pointed out the populist policies in post WW1 Germany leading to mass support for Hitler and then the subsequent rise of the facist regime. She said if Hitler had died in 1938 he'd have probably been one of Germany's greatest leaders. Trump was originally elected in similar populist policies, but she suggested the main difference between Hitler and Trump was that Hitler actually fulfilled his leadership promises in terms of job creation, infrastructure, etc, so with hindsight she could see why there was support for him and actually why he was popular. Trump hasn't fulfilled his promises in terms of improving the lives of ordinary Americans, so his continuing popularity is baffling (to me at least)

I thought it was interesting as we (quite rightly) hold Hitler as one of the worst humans in living memory, but actually understanding the 'good' he did (and yes it makes me uncomfortable typing that) prior to WW2 is important in understanding how that war came about, and ensuring it doesn't happen again.

So in short yes I agree - we need to be able to critically evaluate the good and bad of politics, otherwise we will sleepwalk into the same mistakes.

I think one thing that's clear from this election is that there's more support for Trump than expected, and that his support from BAME voters has increased, which seems strange to me. I think understanding how and why that has occurred is essential to improving the political landscape, and we can only do that by recognising the good as well as the bad achieved by unpleasant leaders.

I was apolitical about Trump in 2016 just before I retired.

I had to rein them in, they generally loathed him for a variety of reasons.

Should I be apolitical? Depends. In terms of Trump, as a person, I think its not wrong to point out some of his statements/unpleasantness/lies so long as its done decently.

Same with Brexit, we had vertical forms. (11- 16) I asked them, given they had no say, how I should vote. Interesting discussion. All but 1 ( who was being awkward) said we should remain.

Some political matters captivate them, they aren't stupid and the vast majority quite decent and balanced.

As future adults they’ve every right to discuss and ask me my views in a conversation. (I didn’t give away all my thoughts/views) In return I’ve a responsibility to give a fair and balanced answer, and sometimes play devil’s advocate.

My DS supports Trump as do many of his friends. If a teacher says something anti-Trump in a lesson (such as you describe) he always speaks up and gives his side of the argument. To the point where his English Literature teacher last year had to ban Trump discussion as she got so annoyed at him! I imagine there is a similar teenager in every school, so there is some sort of debate. And I do think it's up to parents to challenge their DC's critical thinking if they think they are parroting views with no basis.

YANBU.

WaltzingBetty I reckon the increase in support for Trump from BAME voters is rooted in religion - evangelical Christianity for his black followers, Catholicism for his Latino followers, and the appointment of conservative justices to the Supreme Court. He's viewed as someone who is anti gay and anti abortion, and that plays well among people who are socially conservative.

A teacher should not be obviously anti a certain party (unless they are abhorrently right wing or left wing) but I don't think there's any harm at all in criticising a sexist, racist anti-democratic, toy-throwing-out-of-pram narcissist. You are criticising the man, not the party. It would also be reasonable to criticise Boris without condemning all Tories.

Brexit is a different thing because there are some reasonable arguments on both sides (although I would say there were far more arguments to remain )

However, I have some sympathy with the OP's view about the "prevailing" acceptable view. I went to a "BAME allyship" seminar at work a few weeks ago and the BLM protests were discussed. It appeared to be the case that you had to support them despite the fact they were illegal. That made me uncomfortable.

I agree OP we have one teacher in our department who I've found on a number of occasions having very political covicsations with his sixth form classes. It's not his topic or form group he pushes his own views quite strongly and it feels totally inappropriate for a teacher to be doing this.

I'm all for a healthy debate, I took part in debating at university. But feel the teacher should be a facilitator and not strongly expressing their own views. Teenagers are to impressionable and could take remarks a teacher says quite seriously.

There's a difference between being apolitical and being against those who want to undermine democracy.

I reckon the increase in support for Trump from BAME voters is rooted in religion - evangelical Christianity for his black followers, Catholicism for his Latino followers, and the appointment of conservative justices to the Supreme Court.

Biden is Catholic though? Although I believe the fundamentalist Christian types hold that against him (not that they needed much encouragement there).

I am a teacher. Please please write to your Head on this - and all other parents the same. We are bound by the Education Act of 1996 to be apolitical but the profession has really forgotten about this at the moment in an excess of left wing zeal. I teach in a classroom where a history teacher has a timeline across the board where Trump is characterised as evil. This is really not the way to teach history - or anything, actually - as critical thinking is what we should be teaching, not our own political opinions.
Being a teacher at the moment is a bit like working in a religious environment because people are so morally righteous about their political beliefs. It’s incredibly uncomfortable for people who aren’t left wing (which I am, by the way) but more importantly, really terrible for students’ education.

I have to laugh at some of these comments! Us teachers are people who are entitled to our own opinions just like everyone else you know! I would think it would be worse to defend Trump or encourage impartiality given his track record! I mean we don’t teach kids at school to be impartial when it comes to Hitler etc do we? If it’s religion or best football team then I accept your point and of course I would always be impartial if those discussions came up but Trump? No way!

I am very careful to not spout politics views about British politics at work as it’s inappropriate. I have criticized Trump, because he is utterly beyond offensive. I work in a very diverse school with a lot of students who are Muslim and of various ethic backgrounds, they have some very passionate views and have been really interested in this election and hoped for change. I haven’t felt it’s inappropriate to agree with them!!

I completely disagree, because Trump is blatantly lying and making spurious claims without any factual basis whatsoever. Not to mention actively trying to suppress the democratic vote.

Would you have complained if teachers were clearly anti-Hitler back in the day?

But the references to Hitler/BLM/Trump here are proof that it is almost impossible to be “impartial” in a classroom without also appearing to defend the indefensible. The rules must be applied with care, or teachers might find thenselves in a position where a student says, “What do you think of arbitrary detention, Miss?” and feel obligated to say “Well that’s a political question.”

We don’t want that.

I think its lame.

Remembering learning about WW2, I dont remember any teachers being like "...and Hitler was a terrible person, he was an awful Jew hating racist evil monster".

Learning about what happened in Nazi Germany was enough for us to draw our own conclusions.

I think there's a real thing now where everyone's opinion is seen as sacred and it seeps into teachers thinking their own political views are at all relevant. They arent. Teachers are there to explore context with the kids and ask and answer questions

@marveloustimeruiningeverything

I completely disagree, because Trump is blatantly lying and making spurious claims without any factual basis whatsoever. Not to mention actively trying to suppress the democratic vote.

Would you have complained if teachers were clearly anti-Hitler back in the day?

Many people in Germany would have been pro Hitler for a long time - understanding how and why that happened is important.

Blindly accepting anything isn't helpful and leads to problems in the long run. All students should be taught the importance of rational discussion and debate

I try to get them to look beyond the person to the issues and priorities of the different parties they represent as the vote is more than just the figurehead

This is simply not true in the US - the 'figurehead' has power via executive order that he used to separate immigrant children from their parents and put them in cages. The 'figurehead' has power to stack the Supreme Court which given his views has added 3 anti-abortion, anti-healthcare, anti-LGBT, anti-woman judges who could affect my family negatively for decades to come AND he rushed through a judge so that she could try to hand him the election when he loses. The 'figurehead' bragged about men being allowed to sexually assault women.

Being against Trump isn't political. It's moral. He is currently actively working against democracy. This is not a regular election between regular parties.

So those saying that its OK for a teacher to push their own left wing political bias on their pupils , would be OK with a right wing teacher pushing their political bias on your children too?
You wouldnt would you? This is where your argument falls down.

YANBU OP
It's not OK for a teacher to push their own political opinions in the classroom, from either side of the political divide

@MsMD
In fairness that's your family, your morals.

I spend a lot of time on the receiving end of views students are parroting from parents - not all of them pleasant towards me!

I generally internally smile and don't get involved!

There are of course teachers who do state their views explicitly but they should remain impartial.

I've been surprised by how many of the children in my year 5 class have been interested in the US election - to the extent that at break and lunchtimes over the last few days, some of them have been asking me to check what the latest numbers are.

I have 3 particularly silly and immature boys who always stand out in an otherwise sensible, hardworking class. Not surprisingly, they are all obsessed with Trump and have told me that they love him because he's funny.

Any of the other children who express an interest, are very anti-Trump. They are particularly offended by his racism and can't understand how somebody like Trump could be president. Some of them have also talked sympathetically about the death of Biden's wife and 2 of his children.

I am usually very careful to remain neutral in the classroom, particularly with British politics. We had a mock Brexit referendum back in 2016 and usually hold mock elections when there is a general elections ; I always manage to hide my very strong personal beliefs.

I wouldn't tell children whether I supported the Republicans or Democrats but Trump is in a different league. He is racist, sexist, homophobic, retweets conspiracy theories (e QAnon), supports right wing extremists (eg The Proud Boys), rejects science, falsely claims fraud because he has fascist tendencies and only supports democratic processes when they go his way, undermines the free press and the judiciary.

Because the children in my class are so young , I wouldn't introduce any of those ideas to them but I sure as hell will agree with any valid criticism that they make of him.

Do you see the difference between these 2 statements?

Trump is a manbaby who acts like a toddler.

Trump has done X, Y and Z which is bad because of A, B and C.

One is factual and absolutely OK to be taught, the other is an opinion, whether the teacher believes it or not.

I try to be apolitical in the classroom (except in terms of environmentalism), but equally teenagers are worried about what is happening in the US, and I think it's reasonable as part of that explanation to e.g. explain Trump is a threat for democracy (a British value we are required to uphold).

I wouldn't call people who vote for him idiots, but I wouldn't contradict a student who said it.

It is becoming increasingly hard to be apolitical about our government, though, when talking about decisions made re lockdown.

The situation your kids describe doesn't make me uncomfortable though. Trump's press conference last night definitely did...

I think there's always two sides to debate in most cases.

Some cases are more cut and dried than others though, there is very little to debate in favour of Trump. Some Americans like their guns and paying low taxes and that's why they vote for him. That isn't a positive.

Why should I be impartial? I can say what I think surely? Now if I say what I think then stop anyone challenging my view that's a problem. Having a view though I can't see as a problem. If I overheard a lad in a my classroom telling another lad to grab women by their pussy because they liked it I would act. Why should I be less likely to condemn this in arguably the most powerful.man in the Western world? Hardly leading by example is it?

I state my views like the kids state theirs, and we discuss. It's healthy for them to meet politically engaged adults, and be forced to reason their opinion whatever it is.