AIBU to think that secondary school teachers should be apolitical in classroom and encourage debate

[vdbfamily]

DS17 and DD14 both came home today and seperately stated that they were surprised their teachers were allowed to be so anti Republican/Trump and that there was an assumption everyone agreed with them. FWIW neither of my kids like Trump but they felt uncomfortable with the fact that teachers were making derogatory comments about any idiots who voted for Trump and this was several teachers for both of them. WIBU to contact school and suggest it should be a place where students are encouraged to discuss pro's and cons of different parties and not get dictated to about such things! My daughter was saying that some of the kids who would not have known any different were then parroting the teachers views without really knowing what they were talking about.

I think some people have a very out-of-date view of the student/teacher dynamic
More like a selective view.

If you were discussing views on social classes in different geographical areas in you town, and the kids asked where you lived, would you give them your address? Of course not. Its personal and your political views should be too.

If you were discussing views on social classes in different geographical areas in you town, and the kids asked where you lived, would you give them your address? Of course not. Its personal and your political views should be too
Not comparable at all.

This thread just sounds like because some teachers have chosen to say nothing they assume that none of their colleagues could possibly manage to have an interesting and engaging debate which involves respectful opinion sharing.

No teacher should break the standards.
Beyond that it is professional judgement based on the teacher, students and contexts.
Then again there are some in the profession who are keen to remove professional judgements on all sorts and think mandatory highlighter colours is important so 🤷‍♀️

I’m a teacher and I never talk about politics. I think it’s wrong when teachers do.

asked why and they said it was because of how I criticised a socialist author's presentation of upper class characters

Lolasmiles as a matter of interest which book was this?

I am a science teacher and love bringing politics into lessons. It is a long the lines of “some people think this, other people think that”.

It's happened at my daughter's school too. Y7s and Y8s saying they hate Trump, he's an idiot (but don't seem to actually know why they feel that way).
When talking to my daughter's it seems they are just following the teachers lead. I don't like Trump but try to encourage my children to have their own views.

Andante57
An Inspector Calls by JB Priestley.
It's a very ideological text and when I teach it I explore society at the time and frequently discuss his selective representation of class.

The beauty of literature is in the personal response and I always model what I want students to do, including sharing personal reflections and ideas. I also include a range of perspectives.

It's also why I'm reluctant to accept people arguing that personal views in the classroom break the teacher standards because that goes beyond making different professional decisions to outright lying.

When our DS was a teenager his best friend was very politically biased for a particular party. He'd come over to see son and if we were war hung the news he'd discuss it with us. I would play the opposite of whatever he would say. He'd get riled up and say 'but how can you think/say/believe that after.....' I wouldnt believe etc but I would always put forward the opposite of what he was spouting, leading to tested discussion, because he was so fixated on HIS party being right. You can play devil's advocate esp with Trump, allowing chikdren to discuss a person's credentials etc. (so pleased it looks like he's out).

*watching

I am a teacher and so completely agree with you OP. Interestingly this afternoon on LBC Majid Noah (fabulously impartial broadcaster) said something similar. Because I refuse to be hysterically ant-Trump thru assume I am pro/Trump, which I am (and not pro Biden either both are equally unsuited to lead the ‘free world.
Teachers really should remain neutral -disgraceful if they are not.

I will ALWAYS play devils advicate whenever a political viewpoint is expressed in my classroom. At the moment, with social media, people like to surround themselves in an echo chamber of their own ideas, and then suffer extreme reactions if they ever encounter opposing views. Not healthy. For them or society.

advocate. damn typos

No need to be apolitical, but vital to encourage debate and respect for the whole political spectrum. I had a great teacher who was openly pro labour (unusual in my private school in the Thatcher years) and initiated some brilliant debates, and was happy to have his views challenged by students.

Why does it have to be hysterically anti Trump or say nothing?

There's a huge false dichotomy on this thread that seems to suggest people either:

1. Are political fundamentalists or activists seeking to indoctrinated students by pushing their own political agenda and trying to brainwash

Or

1. Say nothing ever and claim to be totally neutral, which obviously makes them superior teachers than all those hideously unprofessional teachers who exercise professional judgement (who obviously couldn't exist because anyone sharing a view must be in the first group).

MrsKramer
I had teachers like that and I remember them fondly.
They didn't insult our intelligence by pretending to be neutral, but they modelled the importance of debate, respect and showed us that adults we respected could have a range of different views. They were well respected, well liked and educated us much more holistically than others.

Not comparable at all
And that's the concern, that you can't see that it is very comparable.

@MasterGland

I will ALWAYS play devils advicate whenever a political viewpoint is expressed in my classroom. At the moment, with social media, people like to surround themselves in an echo chamber of their own ideas, and then suffer extreme reactions if they ever encounter opposing views. Not healthy. For them or society.

Well said

Unless thrh have lived here for a considerable period of recent time, even the teachers don’t know what they are talking about. I follow the media the UK and what they write about is nowhere near a true reflection of life here. And you can’t even “translate” things from one country to another and assume that a policy that has worked well in one country would work in the other.

Teachers may think they know what they are talking about but an annual 2-week trip to Disney World does not make anyone an expert on life in the USA. We are 50 different states, for starters. It’s more like 50 different countries each with their own laws, mindsets, customs and values.

Fwiw, I think the best way to encourage debate is to have an opinion - so long as you create enough space in the conversation to listen to alternative ideas. In that regard, ideally I don't think teachers should be apolitical at all. They should model political conversation that is robust and good humoured. And then maybe society would have some tools to interrogate the world around beyond tribalism?

And that's the concern, that you can't see that it is very comparable.
They aren't

They might be for you, and that is absolutely your right within the standards to decide.

If you can't see that using professional judgement to decide how and when to share is perfectly acceptable and allowed within the standards then that's not my problem.

Fwiw, I think the best way to encourage debate is to have an opinion - so long as you create enough space in the conversation to listen to alternative ideas. In that regard, ideally I don't think teachers should be apolitical at all. They should model political conversation that is robust and good humoured. And then maybe society would have some tools to interrogate the world around beyond tribalism?
I agree, but apparently doing so is unprofessional, disgraceful, concerning and students are so incapable of thinking that the second they hear a teacher express their opinion they will forever view it as the one true way and be brainwashed forever.

@LolaSmiles

Part of our professional standards explicitly details not expressing political opinions HTH You think challenging men talking about grabbing women by the pussy and making racist comments about Muslim women is being political?

And also for the silly 'HTH' , the standarza don't say staff can't express opinions.

Part 2 of the standards say this:

Part Two: Personal and professional conduct
A teacher is expected to demonstrate consistently high standards of personal and
professional conduct. The following statements define the behaviour and attitudes which
set the required standard for conduct throughout a teacher’s career.
 Teachers uphold public trust in the profession and maintain high standards of
ethics and behaviour, within and outside school, by:
 treating pupils with dignity, building relationships rooted in mutual respect, and at all times observing proper boundaries appropriate to a teacher’s professional position
 having regard for the need to safeguard pupils’ well-being, in accordance with statutory provisions
 showing tolerance of and respect for the rights of others
 not undermining fundamental British values, including democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty and mutual respect, and tolerance of those with different faiths and beliefs
 ensuring that personal beliefs are not expressed in ways which exploit pupils’ vulnerability or might lead them to break the law.
 Teachers must have proper and professional regard for the ethos, policies and practices of the school in which they teach, and maintain high standards in their own attendance and punctuality.
 Teachers must have an understanding of, and always act within, the statutory frameworks which set out their professional duties and responsibilities.

Just for emphasis: ensuring that personal beliefs are not expressed in ways which exploit pupils’ vulnerability or might lead them to break the law

The standards talk about expressing beliefs in ways that exploit vulnerability or encourage the law to be broken, not a ban on perfectly acceptable and civil debate and discussion.

Do you work in education? I'm just intrigued as to whether you know what you're talking about or whether you're copying and pasting and trying to look like you know anything like what it's like to be in a classroom.

Well oops! I may have told the kids my feelings about Trump but only when they have already shown their dislike! I have yet to say how I feel about Boris Johnson!

I find it bizarre that people believe that teachers shouldn't comment on a racist, misogynistic demagogue like Trump, who clearly breaches the British values that schools are required to promote. Yet teachers are ok to lead the legally required daily act of broadly Christian worship - giving the distinct impression that they personally believe the worship they are leading.

Do you work in education? I'm just intrigued as to whether you know what you're talking about or whether you're copying and pasting and trying to look like you know anything like what it's like to be in a classroom
I do, which is precisely why I'm challenging the idea that expressing opinions is apparently banned in the standards. It isn't and people claiming otherwise are deliberately trying to mislead people on the thread.

Maybe I credit my students with an ounce of intelligence and am able to apply a shred of professional judgement in the classroom. 🤷‍♀️

Like I said up thread, one group of GCSE students thought they'd worked out I was a Tory based on how I taught one of the set texts. I'm not. Other students have asked my opinions on other issues and opinions have been given or declined depending on whether it was appropriate:
For example Brexit was off limits to me, and I don't share my opinion on the government it's handling of the pandemic when the students are wanting to discuss because one was quite a charged moment in domestic politics and the other risks undermining what we are trying to do in schools despite crap leadership in government. If asked my view on free speech, or whether I like Trump then that's different as it's perfectly possible to give a view without ridiculing other views and whilst promoting respectful debate.

I find it odd that others in the profession find this a difficult concept.

JustajotIt's either a superiority thing and a fundamental unwillingness to credit fellow members of the profession with an ounce of common sense, or they genuinely don't understand the difference between appropriate, respectful discussion and blatant pushing ideology.

Then again, you have to realise there's people in teaching who get promotions by telling their colleagues what colour highlighters to use in their marking and telling their colleagues they must only teach their subject using centrally approved PowerPoint so this is hardly surprising.