I'm not a very nice person

[Everly82]

Ok, that's not strictly true. I'm very friendly and polite, treat people equally, hold doors and smile at strangers. But...I'm often pleased when things go wrong for others (not major things like illness, but if they were to get a house that I would want to live in and it fell through, for example). My friend recently failed her driving test and I wasn't unhappy for her because I can't drive and she has made snide comments before. Next door's house is a tip which pleases me because it makes me feel better about my own and weirdly superior. My high school bully is now obese. Very satisfying.

Am I an arsehole? The reality is, I'm miserable and not where I want to be in life. Is this jealousy? I'm starting to dislike myself.

I've hoped for an assassination attempt on The Cheeto, does that count?
He's that vile I'm pretty sure a lot of his family probably wouldn't miss him and he's that universally hated that I'm almost surprised that it hasn't happened... but then I remember all the gun toting lunatics are on his side

A thought experiment, perhaps, using the poster who admitted wishing miscarriages on people as an example, since she seems to be the most shocking one (understandably so). If she had a magic button that she could press to cause these miscarriages, with no consequence to herself, do you think she would actually do it?

Obviously we can't answer for her, but I'd be very surprised if she really would.

Agree this stuff reaches down into a darker place in the human psyche than mere Schadenfreude. Must be a human trait. Morrissey certainly thinks so ...

www.bing.com/videos/search?q=we+hate+it+when+our+friends+become+successful+lyrics&docid=608047041667795222&mid=49BF026E0B575296A05D49BF026E0B575296A05D&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

We hate it when our friends become successful ...
You see, it should have been me
It could have been me
Everybody knows!

On a more serious note wishing harm on a baby won't actually cause harm to happen to that baby. It's like that old analogy: you can't drink a jar of poison in the hope it will make someone else sick. It won't - but it causes a great deal of harm to the drinker.

OP deserves kudos for recognising a trait in herself she is unhappy with and wants to change. That takes both character and insight. I wish her well, plus all other posters who have confessed to dark feelings towards their rapist or bitterness and hurt over their miscarriages. Being bullied is also horrible. I've been in all three of these positions, so can relate. Hope people manage to find a place of peace despite some of the awful experiences reported on this thread.

@ShebaShimmyShake

A thought experiment, perhaps, using the poster who admitted wishing miscarriages on people as an example, since she seems to be the most shocking one (understandably so). If she had a magic button that she could press to cause these miscarriages, with no consequence to herself, do you think she would actually do it?

Obviously we can't answer for her, but I'd be very surprised if she really would.

I honestly doubt she would.

Thank you for starting this thread OP. I genuinely think it will help a lot of people who experience the same - and I should imagine those people are anybody who has the courage and self-awareness to confront their own psyche head on and look for answers.

There’s nothing weird or wrong even with some of these thoughts that other posters are so quick to judge.

What’s that they say? The unexamined life is not worth living?

Thank you to you and all the other posters who have been so honest about the ‘dark’ corners of their minds. Wish more people would start really honest conversations like this on here.

I remember the time when my abusive F was very ill in hospital following a stroke. (He'd had Parkinson's Disease for a long time as well.) In the end he died of septicaemia.

Anyway, I was sitting there literally willing him to die. This left me with a lot of guilt after he did pass away. Because I still loved him and grieved for him. But I was desperate to be free from him, though, because my memories of the childhood SA my DSis and I had gone through had been repressed, I couldn't understand where those feelings had come from.

Now, since the memories did come back some years ago, I can understand my feelings and I've stopped feeling guilty.

Everly82 - are you my neighbour? My house is definitely a tip. If it makes you happy, fill your boots

I think everyone is being massively melodramatic here - Re the poster who said she wished miscarriages on other women in her darkest moment.

She wished them in a very vulnerable time in her life - she didn't cause them, she likely just had the fleeting thought and if given the power I highly doubt she would have waved a magic wand and make it happen.

So this faux horror "I can't believe there are people like this" - have a word with yourselves, these are people thoughts not actions

I also think those claiming they don't have bad thoughts about others and have never wished harm on anyone else are big fat liars

@Woofbloodywoof

Thank you for starting this thread OP. I genuinely think it will help a lot of people who experience the same - and I should imagine those people are anybody who has the courage and self-awareness to confront their own psyche head on and look for answers.

There’s nothing weird or wrong even with some of these thoughts that other posters are so quick to judge.

What’s that they say? The unexamined life is not worth living?

Thank you to you and all the other posters who have been so honest about the ‘dark’ corners of their minds. Wish more people would start really honest conversations like this on here.

It seems that there are multiple things being discussed here though.

Intrusive thoughts that you don't want and feel uncomfortable with, vs thoughts that you quite enjoy and don't have a problem with.

Joy in misfortune happening to someone who's mistreated or abused you, vs joy in misfortune happening to a friend or neighbour or stranger who hasn't.

If someone says "I was secretly glad when I heard that my abusive stepmother lost her job, I don't like wishing harm on anyone, I am worried this makes me a bad person," that's one thing (and I'd say it doesn't make them a bad person at all).

But if they say "I was secretly glad when I learn that my friend lost her job, for no reason other than it made me feel better about my life, there's nothing wrong with this at all because everyone feels like this and you're repressed and lying to yourself if you say you don't", then...

Well this thread explains some peoples attitudes towards me which I could never understand!

I genuinely don't feel like this if I like the person concerned. If someone has hurt me then of course I am happy when they get their dues and do believe in Karma, but not for people I like.

I've seen some real jealousy and bitterness aimed at my family due to what other people perceive us to have, and now I know why!

@Thecobwebsarewinning

The sort of thought process the OP describes (a sneaking satisfaction that someone who jibed at her for not being able to drive failed their own driving test) is an example of paranoid-schizoid omnipotent thinking. This is most often associated with pre-verbal infants but a situation that evokes feelings experienced in the infant paranoid-schizoid phase of development will often recreate an involuntary infantile response. This applies equally to 2 year olds and 99 year olds.

People criticising the OP for feeling this way completely misunderstand the distinction between emotions and thought. No-one can control their emotions. There is no such thing as a ‘wrong’ emotion. All we can do is control our responses to emotions. The OP seems to be doing this very well. She’s not feeling these emotions of triumph and vindication and dancing round the victim chanting ‘ner ner ne ner ner’. She’s recognising them as unkind/immature and therefore socially unacceptable and setting them aside. This is a sign of emotional maturity.

People saying they don’t feel this kind of vengeful pleasure occasionally are probably very repressed. They have been so socially conditioned to be good and kind and nice that they cannot even acknowledge that sometimes they fail.

We are all a mixed bag, none of us are perfect. We are never as bad as our darkest thought or as good as our kindest deed but somewhere between the two.

Really thought provoking, thank you. I'm going to have to read Klien aren't I

But surely if envy and finding joy in the suffering of others is a sign of the ego not be integrated, then its a sign of lesser maturity. I'm not suggesting that repression is healthy, only that as social beings entirely dependent upon others the healthy ego along with a good dose of repression isn't necessarily a bad thing either.

I've worked in a therapeutic setting with children who have experienced the most horrific abuse. Some of these children display and admit to the most terrifying impulses to hurt others. Its within the job description to work with them to help them come to terms with their experiences. Not one of us would have joined the bonfire of their parents, and it was never seen as positive to reinforce their negative impulses to retribution towards the parents or others.

But then as I said in my post my very neutral position (partly because of my work, partly because of my own upbringing) makes me feel uncomfortable, its not necessarily healthy to be impartial to the point of apathy, because it leads to a sort of disaffection. And I'm fairly certain that position is achieved by repeated exposure to trauma, be it yours or other people's. I think if I consider people I have worked with and myself I sometimes think we take up this position as a way of a)moral superiority, b)just another maladaptive coping mechanism. It leads to cynicism ultimately. So what's the answer.

But in object relations isn't it about integration? If it is, where does it lead? I'm not certain that object relations theory and practice is about accepting these emotions and then using the intellect to repress them.....that simply leads us back to how the ego is used to repress.....ie we need the ego to mediate so we can live cooperatively with others. That's not an answer, its a description!

People have been very honest here. I hope everyone finds their little bit of peace and happiness.

I think you're normal, we all feel a bit like this at times.

My school bully is also obese and financially in a bad place. I find it hard to feel sorry for her, she was awful.

@GlummyMcGlummerson some people are just very good at conveniently forgetting all of the bad stuff they've done and thought about doing.

Also find it interesting how many people think it’s fine to be pleased when things to wrong for others - it’s only thoughts not actions! it doesn’t make you a bad person! - but are deeply uncomfortable with other people ‘judging’ them for this. Why do you care if other people think you’re a bad person for taking glee in others’ misfortune? Surely that’s only thoughts too?

@Thecobwebsarewinning

The sort of thought process the OP describes (a sneaking satisfaction that someone who jibed at her for not being able to drive failed their own driving test) is an example of paranoid-schizoid omnipotent thinking. This is most often associated with pre-verbal infants but a situation that evokes feelings experienced in the infant paranoid-schizoid phase of development will often recreate an involuntary infantile response. This applies equally to 2 year olds and 99 year olds.

People criticising the OP for feeling this way completely misunderstand the distinction between emotions and thought. No-one can control their emotions. There is no such thing as a ‘wrong’ emotion. All we can do is control our responses to emotions. The OP seems to be doing this very well. She’s not feeling these emotions of triumph and vindication and dancing round the victim chanting ‘ner ner ne ner ner’. She’s recognising them as unkind/immature and therefore socially unacceptable and setting them aside. This is a sign of emotional maturity.

People saying they don’t feel this kind of vengeful pleasure occasionally are probably very repressed. They have been so socially conditioned to be good and kind and nice that they cannot even acknowledge that sometimes they fail.

We are all a mixed bag, none of us are perfect. We are never as bad as our darkest thought or as good as our kindest deed but somewhere between the two.

Great post and very interesting.

I get jealous of my BILs house which is fitting for my username but no if someone is polite and nice to me I generally don't wish them My best friend I want nothing but the best for her. People who have wronged me though ooft I can hold grudges forever and yes I do like it when bad things happen to them I try not to think this way though

[quote Chickenkatsu]@GlummyMcGlummerson some people are just very good at conveniently forgetting all of the bad stuff they've done and thought about doing.[/quote]
Well obviously not people on here, seeing as they shared something they thought about yet never carried out.

I imagine if our thoughts we accessible to all there'd been no one trying the bullshit claims of "I never think bad about anybody"

I think you're actually more normal than you might think.
I'm the same.
I mean, it's not like I watch the news, see bad things happening, and think 'ha! a bad thing!'
It's more like, if I feel people don't deserve a good thing, I'm not sad when it goes wrong.
For example a friend of mine (I use the term loosely) lost her job, but I had a flicker of satisfaction because it completely changed her because it was a huge wage and she definitely looked down on the rest of the group because she was the rich one.
Another girl I know, her son was suspended from school for 2 weeks last year, in Y9. She was the typical 'my son is a perfect, gifted angel' parent, down your throat on social media etc. So when I found out he'd been suspended for punching a boy in the face and breaking his nose - I smiled.
There are other little examples but I can't think of them right now.
But I think you're normal, honestly!

I think people like the OP (no offence) are somewhat unhappy with their lives.. also insecure and the type of people who measure success by the things they have and tend to seek from approval from others. It's different if the person has something bad to the OP and the OP wishes something bad to happen to them. I have a disabled DC and there was this parent who was very mean and rude towards my child. Made me feel like shit, she clearly didn't want her child to associate with mine and was just a horrible person. Three years ago, I saw her at some disability convention, she had a pram and she had a small child. She saw me and said "hello" and then we got talking and she said that her son has just been diagnosed with the same condition as mine. When she told me that, I'm sorry, I was sympathetic towards her child, but I thought "now you are going to deal with all the shit that you put me through, people judging you on your child, strangers making rude remarks..".

But reading threads like this is a reason why I keep my joys to myself. I didn't tell anytime I was pregnant (apart from two very very close friends and family members) till I was 7 months pregnant. I say this as people wish bad things on you and I seriously believe there's some kind of entity who would grant that person their wish for something bad to happen to the person who is jealous of them.

People criticising the OP for feeling this way completely misunderstand the distinction between emotions and thought. No-one can control their emotions

This is correct the op is describing her emotional reaction on things going wrong for people. However what other people are describing is their thoughts, they are attributing it to being the same as what the ops is saying, and as you rightly say it is not,

There is a very big difference between feeling pleased something is bad for someone, v proactively wishing ill on someone because they have something you want. A thought process caused by envy, spite, resentment, or any other range of negative emotions.

However I part ways on you with this

“People saying they don’t feel this kind of vengeful pleasure occasionally are probably very repressed*

This is just a sly dig at people who react differently and it’s totally inaccurate. Repression means you’re feeling it but suppressing it but that means youre still feeling it. But you’re lying.

I will use myself as an example. I seldom to never feel vengeful pleasure. I’m not remotely repressed. I am not pretending, I am not burying it, and the reason I seldom to never feel it, is I am not overly emotionally invested in those who would illicit this feeling in me, that’s the difference. It’s not repression, it’s how much you care about those others.

The less I like someone, the less I am likely to care about them, I simply don’t waste time, thought or emotion dwelling on them, and the more I like someone, they more I am likely to care for them, so I am happy for them if something goes well.

The outcome of this is seldom to never do I feel vengeful pleasure. Because for those who would illicit this response in me, I have already moved on emotionally and discarded them and I literally don’t give a shit. It is an irrelevance to me.

If someone I do care about has something I would wish, I feel pleased for them, I don’t feel envy, I immediately turn it on myself and think what can I do to improve my situation so I get closer to that. I do not resent the other person, I simply make it about me.

Think of a road traffic collision,all the motorists slowing down to have a good look.You can bet they are not worrying about the drivers involved in the collision.be
You're just human op,stop worrying!

What amazes me about this thread is the number of people who, disliking the thoughts that other posters have neither said out loud or acted upon, have decided to prove how much nicer they are by calling someone a cunt or a fucking horrible person.
Someone being secretly happy that their school bully has gotten fat or that their bastard of an ex husband can't get a new girlfriend does not, in the majority of cases, have any real effect. It does not make the bully any fatter, it does not make them more self conscious of their weight gain. It does not make the ex husband less appealing to women, it does not make him more despondent about not having a girlfriend.
Calling someone a cunt online because of something they THOUGHT is going to have a greater negative effect than the thoughts themselves. Probably quite a small effect, unless the person really takes it to heart, but an effect none the less.

will use myself as an example. I seldom to never feel vengeful pleasure. I’m not remotely repressed. I am not pretending, I am not burying it, and the reason I seldom to never feel it, is I am not overly emotionally invested in those who would illicit this feeling in me, that’s the difference. It’s not repression, it’s how much you care about those others

Same as me Bluntness100 I often just don't care enough, I'm not emotionally invested. However I'm not certain this is particularly healthy, as I've stated already. I also think this position implies you are making a judgement on others and believe your position is morally superior. I admit it, it bothers me.

I think it is normal to be jealous of other peoples successes but there is a line to be crossed.

When i was 17 i went out with my ex, he loved it when people had misfortune, loved it, revelled in it.

When say a couple broke up he would be laughing and sneering about it, it was awful to watch. Anything to redundancies, car accidents, marriage break ups etc, he loved to laugh and sneer.

One story really brought it home. A friends mum was in her 50's and she was a SAHP, when the kids left home she took up acting, just playing extras in scenes, nothing major just a day or two and it was something she enjoyed. She wasnt trying to be famous just do something with her day.

She got a small part in a drama, had her nails and hair done and ended up playing a dead body, was seen dead at the scene then later on a coroners table. It is funny really, she got all glammed up to play a body. But ex was in hysterics telling me the story, really laughing hard and sneering about her wasting her time. He laughed so much i had to ask what i had missed as although it was fairly funny it wasnt that funny, i thought i had missed something!

It seeing how much he revelled in others misfortunes and set backs that made me dump him.